Spending...

Kyle

Just being a fly in the ointment...
PREMO Member
Older article but captures a snapshot of the issue...


THIS week the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) held its first meeting of defence ministers since Donald Trump became America′s president. Many of the group′s 28 members grew nervous after Mr Trump called it “obsolete” during his campaign, and suggested that the United States would only provide military aid to a threatened member if it had paid its fair share. The president has tamped down such rhetoric of late. Nonetheless, on February 15th America’s defence secretary, James Mattis, warned allies that they must adopt plans to raise their military spending or risk seeing its most powerful member “moderate its commitment to the alliance”.

The United States has a point in noting that its commitment is disproportionately large. Last year it spent 3.6% of its GDP on defence, the highest ratio of any NATO member (and the highest total military budget in the world by a hefty margin). That is almost double the target of 2% of GDP that NATO members all agreed to in 2006. At the time six members reached the threshold; last year five did.


https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/02/16/military-spending-by-nato-members
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Older article but captures a snapshot of the issue...


THIS week the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) held its first meeting of defence ministers since Donald Trump became America′s president. Many of the group′s 28 members grew nervous after Mr Trump called it “obsolete” during his campaign, and suggested that the United States would only provide military aid to a threatened member if it had paid its fair share. The president has tamped down such rhetoric of late. Nonetheless, on February 15th America’s defence secretary, James Mattis, warned allies that they must adopt plans to raise their military spending or risk seeing its most powerful member “moderate its commitment to the alliance”.

The United States has a point in noting that its commitment is disproportionately large. Last year it spent 3.6% of its GDP on defence, the highest ratio of any NATO member (and the highest total military budget in the world by a hefty margin). That is almost double the target of 2% of GDP that NATO members all agreed to in 2006. At the time six members reached the threshold; last year five did.


https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/02/16/military-spending-by-nato-members
Well: We know that when the SHTF who is going to be called on to take on the greatest burden.
Why shouldn't the other members pay their fair share, and do their fair share with their militaries.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Imagine how much less we'd spend if it was truly for "defense" and not nation building or dictator toppling.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
How much do you figure we're spending on the two of those things these days?
I know money tight in the Marine Corps at home, the amount of equipment my son has had to buy is unbelievable. He tells me they even tear target pasters in half to make them go farther.
 

Kyle

Just being a fly in the ointment...
PREMO Member
Imagine how much less we'd spend if it was truly for "defense" and not nation building or dictator toppling.
The nation building is the major issue.

Toppling a dictator wouldn't be hard if there was a reason. Go in, kill EVERYTHING, leave the smoking ruins behind.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
I know money tight in the Marine Corps at home, the amount of equipment my son has had to buy is unbelievable. He tells me they even tear target pasters in half to make them go farther.
The colossal waste associated with the Iraq and Afghan campaigns is going to take many years to repair...I know some Guard units were completely gutted of equipment, spare parts etc.. I just hope the wasteful expenditures are - or will soon - end.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
The colossal waste associated with the Iraq and Afghan campaigns is going to take many years to repair...I know some Guard units were completely gutted of equipment, spare parts etc.. I just hope the wasteful expenditures are - or will soon - end.
It's just shocking to me on what once was issued and now the Marine has to buy it to have one or one that has all the pieces or works. Or have more than two sets of goretex cammies.. And it's interesting that everything is available for the most part at the MCCX , MCX........
When he did night land nav his buddy and him both were given broken compass's
It's tough to see when both had dead tritium, and one was missing the magnifying lens.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
The nation building is the major issue.

Toppling a dictator wouldn't be hard if there was a reason. Go in, kill EVERYTHING, leave the smoking ruins behind.
That's the way I would fight the drug war.
Bomb the Poppy fields and the places where it is turned into heroin.

That's what war is. Destruction.

Certainly the countries that are responsible for the drug industry are not going to do it, they make too much money off it.
 

transporter

Active Member
I know money tight in the Marine Corps at home, the amount of equipment my son has had to buy is unbelievable. He tells me they even tear target pasters in half to make them go farther.
The US defense budget this year is now $700B...

Last year: At $610 billion, US military spending accounted for more than a third of the world total in 2017. The USA’s spending was 2.7 times greater than the next highest spender, China; indeed, the USA spent more than the next seven highest spenders combined (see figure 2).
TRENDS IN WORLD MILITARY EXPENDITURE, 2017

All this whining about what other countries is paying is stupid (as most topics on here seem to be).

Whenever it is stated that we pay too much for defense, all you right wing types have a stroke. When Trump b*tches that we are spending too much...you all nod and salivate like obedient little puppies. Make up your minds....if you have any.

(BTW...we are also running a deficit that is fast approaching $1T.)
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
The US defense budget this year is now $700B...



TRENDS IN WORLD MILITARY EXPENDITURE, 2017

All this whining about what other countries is paying is stupid (as most topics on here seem to be).

Whenever it is stated that we pay too much for defense, all you right wing types have a stroke. When Trump b*tches that we are spending too much...you all nod and salivate like obedient little puppies. Make up your minds....if you have any.

(BTW...we are also running a deficit that is fast approaching $1T.)
[video=youtube;C_Kh7nLplWo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo[/video]
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Crikes! When did USAID chop over to the Defense Department? Do you suppose SecState knew it was happening?
USAID's Administrator is a membor of the National Security Council (as of Feb. 2017) and works with the State Dept. (including SecState).

101.2 PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITIES
Effective Date: 08/07/2015
a. The Administrator (A/AID) formulates and executes U.S. foreign economic and development assistance policies and programs, subject to the foreign policy guidance of the President, the Secretary of State, and the National Security Council. Under the direct authority and foreign policy guidance of the Secretary of State, the Administrator serves as a principal advisor to the President and the Secretary of State regarding international development matters. He/she administers appropriations made available under the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, as amended and supervises and directs overall Agency activities in the U.S. and abroad.
https://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1868/101.pdf
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
T
Whenever it is stated that we pay too much for defense, all you right wing types have a stroke. When Trump b*tches that we are spending too much...you all nod and salivate like obedient little puppies. Make up your minds....if you have any.
Possibly one of the stupidest arguments I've seen on the subject.

I remember a book I read by - of all people - Bill Maher - where he poses the question along the lines of - do you want to live in a world where
the nation that spends far and away the most money on their military - is *CHINA*? (Because of course, Russia isn't going to happen with their economy).

Part of the issue is - you cannot afford second place. You can't. So yes, we need to spend a lot on defense.

And Trump is right in - we're throwing away money if our allies in Europe spend so much on social welfare - that they more or less
rely on US to defend them. Worse, they've allowed a situation to occur where they depend on Russia for their energy so that - while
we pump money into them for defense - they're turning around and paying their enemy for energy.

Personally - I have never understood why we need to spend so much abroad - have so many troops in nations where the war
ended decades ago. We don't need to spend our fortune defending people who are CLEARLY capable of defending themselves - but
won't. We could spend that money better - on our own military, but better.

Spend the money - stop the waste. And we're wasting our money on allies who are sponging off of us.
I am not surprised they don't like being called out on it.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The US defense budget this year is now $700B...



TRENDS IN WORLD MILITARY EXPENDITURE, 2017

All this whining about what other countries is paying is stupid (as most topics on here seem to be).

Whenever it is stated that we pay too much for defense, all you right wing types have a stroke. When Trump b*tches that we are spending too much...you all nod and salivate like obedient little puppies. Make up your minds....if you have any.

(BTW...we are also running a deficit that is fast approaching $1T.)
. Say sweetie....didja see the report on the emergency meeting NATO members just held?......and the outcome??
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
The US defense budget this year is now $700B...



TRENDS IN WORLD MILITARY EXPENDITURE, 2017

All this whining about what other countries is paying is stupid (as most topics on here seem to be).

Whenever it is stated that we pay too much for defense, all you right wing types have a stroke. When Trump b*tches that we are spending too much...you all nod and salivate like obedient little puppies. Make up your minds....if you have any.

(BTW...we are also running a deficit that is fast approaching $1T.)
You forgot to add in the VA benefits - not part of the defense department - in your totals for defense spending.

We do pay too much for defense, but most of that is spent at the FBI, NSA, and other DHS areas.

But, when we are almost double what we agreed to spend on Europe's defense, and they're not half what they agreed to, we need to cut our expenditures until they pony up their money to the agreement. I would say this if it was Obama making the argument just like Trump making the argument. Right is right, wrong is wrong - it has nothing to do with "right wing types" or "left wing types". The vast majority of people on this forum understand that, as they almost universally disagreed with the most recent "budget" bill passed and signed by Trump.

BTW, that deficit is a continual point of discussion on here. You, personally, have been asked by me, repeatedly, what spending you would cut. You have no constructive discussion on the issue; so stop trying to talk about it.
 
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