Teacher worries parents will overhear what he’s actually teaching their kids in virtual classroom
- Thread starter GURPS
- Start date
Ooohh. Scared the real person raising the children will hear what you are indoctrinating them with? It's about time you will be held accountable.
Yooper
Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
I can see Mr. Kay's point, but his point assumes that what he's afraid will disappear is something that schools ought to be doing. Yes, I understand that the dynamic may be different in localities where schools have become in loco parentis, but still..., schools need to refocus their priorities (that being learning stuff and thinking critically/logically about that stuff).
So while I do sympathize, fundamentally I disagree.
--- End of line (MCP)
So while I do sympathize, fundamentally I disagree.
--- End of line (MCP)
Take out the idea of indoctrinating and I actually agree with him. Especially if you consider abused children (physically, mentally, sexually, etc). For many (most) of those children, school is the only safe place they have. Pre-covid, they might have been able to alert a teacher about what is going on. At the very least, they can get a reprieve from it. Now...not so much.
WooterBird
Member
I agree, and it's up to teachers to teach those critical thinking skills, not opinion and conjecture. Also this will stop the rumor and innuendo in schools of "Oh, this teacher said (insert awful comment) in my class" when it didn't actually happen. Teachers should like this as a way of keeping track of what actually happened in a classroom.
Parents are understanding, and so are students. Nobody is going to be upset if a child in the home of a teacher runs into the view of a camera or starts making noise. These kids live in houses with siblings. The comments this teacher made in the original post are about opinion and things that aren't related to many, if any, subjects in school. Sexuality shouldn't be a focus of classes in high school.
I think he's clear what he's worried about (see the highlighted text):
He doesn't want involved parents knowing what he is telling their children about gender/sexuality.
Then he goes on to say that conservative parents are his chief concern.
He doesn't appear to be concerned about abuse at all, unless it's the abuse of having parents with traditional values who call men men and women women.
He doesn't want involved parents knowing what he is telling their children about gender/sexuality.
Then he goes on to say that conservative parents are his chief concern.
He doesn't appear to be concerned about abuse at all, unless it's the abuse of having parents with traditional values who call men men and women women.
You're discussing the motives behind his point; I was discussing his point itself when I mentioned abuse. That's why I said "take out the indoctrinated part."
Actually we were discussing what he said. "Abuse" was not his words, that is your word based upon your personal conjecture, not the facts . He specifically stated his discussions included gender/sexuality and also mentioned his worries were conservative parents.
Hessian
Well-Known Member
It seems quietly sinister. While sounding like it is filled with merit to have a 'parent-free' environment that allows openness, and 'judgement free expression' it also is an environment of manipulation, lacking true morality, and encourages experimentation without the consent of the parents. Remember: the Left sees Conservative ideology NOT as a valid worldview, but as something backward, constricting, and oppressive. THAT is the 'noble fight' he is embarrassed to let slip.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
If he was worried parents would mettle in how he taught math I would agree, this BS, nope.
I’m not sure you’re following what I’m trying to say.
I never suggested he said abuse; I was the only person to bring that into the conversation. The gender/sexuality was his motives for his main point - That having parents listening in might be a bad thing in some scenarios. He then backed up his point through the examples of gender/sexuality. I was agreeing with his main point (that there are times when it might not be good that a parent is listening in) and brought my perspective on why...which was a safe space for abused children.
Hessian
Well-Known Member
rmorse...that is a scenario where many teachers get into trouble. Many are NOT trained as counselors and they Definitely are kept in the dark regarding home issues (kept with the guidance counselors). Having a Chaplain or pastor might provide some sound instruction....I think Teachers are actually much better off keeping the professional distance instead of 'probing' into areas of vulnerability.
Teachers Openly Fret That Parents Might Hear Them Brainwashing Children, Call Parents ‘Dangerous’
Here’s the entire thread, which has since been set to private:
First, classrooms are certainly not “safe places” for children to be “vulnerable.” Students may say and do things when they are with their peers in school that they would not say and do at home, but only a fool who doesn’t understand the first thing about child psychology and the effects of peer pressure would assume that the child’s at-school version of himself is the most authentic, much less the most healthy. The pressure to conform to the values and opinions of your peers in the classroom is immense, and often suffocating. There is a reason why rejection and alienation by peers has contributed to a true epidemic of suicide among young people.
The very same people who extol the classroom as a “safe place” for vulnerability will also tell us, on different days and in different contexts, that bullying is a major problem for today’s youth and many of them are driven to self-destruction because of it. So, which is it? Is the classroom a place for open and genuine dialogue, where children can safely express their truest feelings and beliefs, or is it a place rife with bullying and mockery, where rigid conformity is demanded and those who fail to meet the demands are severely punished? It certainly can’t be both.
Second, an adult keeping a secret with a child, and helping the child conceal that secret from his parent — especially when the secret has anything to do with sexuality — is acting in a way that is nothing short of predatory. If you heard a strange man on the playground whisper to your child, “this will just be our little secret,” you would assume that the man is some kind of sex offender. Does this behavior suddenly transform from disturbing to admirable if the strange man is a teacher? No, it doesn’t. But this is the sort of license society has given to teachers, on the the theory that they cannot do the work of educating unless they have more power over, and intimate knowledge of, their students than the students’ own parents.
Here’s the entire thread, which has since been set to private:
First, classrooms are certainly not “safe places” for children to be “vulnerable.” Students may say and do things when they are with their peers in school that they would not say and do at home, but only a fool who doesn’t understand the first thing about child psychology and the effects of peer pressure would assume that the child’s at-school version of himself is the most authentic, much less the most healthy. The pressure to conform to the values and opinions of your peers in the classroom is immense, and often suffocating. There is a reason why rejection and alienation by peers has contributed to a true epidemic of suicide among young people.
The very same people who extol the classroom as a “safe place” for vulnerability will also tell us, on different days and in different contexts, that bullying is a major problem for today’s youth and many of them are driven to self-destruction because of it. So, which is it? Is the classroom a place for open and genuine dialogue, where children can safely express their truest feelings and beliefs, or is it a place rife with bullying and mockery, where rigid conformity is demanded and those who fail to meet the demands are severely punished? It certainly can’t be both.
Second, an adult keeping a secret with a child, and helping the child conceal that secret from his parent — especially when the secret has anything to do with sexuality — is acting in a way that is nothing short of predatory. If you heard a strange man on the playground whisper to your child, “this will just be our little secret,” you would assume that the man is some kind of sex offender. Does this behavior suddenly transform from disturbing to admirable if the strange man is a teacher? No, it doesn’t. But this is the sort of license society has given to teachers, on the the theory that they cannot do the work of educating unless they have more power over, and intimate knowledge of, their students than the students’ own parents.
I meant nothing more than the kids having a safe space. With the abuser there, the safe space disappears.
This reads like it was written by someone who doesn't have firsthand experience of childhood abuse.
If you're being abused at home, the school absolutely is a "safe space." That article doesn't understand that a safe space for an abused child is anywhere where the abuser isn't with them. There are very few areas that are solely the child's and not the child's + parent. School is one of them.
You want to start thread about child abuse and schools are ' safe zones ' feel free, that is NOT the topic of this thread, go bang your drum somewhere else ...... its tedious
DUH ...... there is no safe space if the abuser is there ....... did you think before you type that up Capt Obvious
Are you being serious right now?
GURPS, you do realize that the "safe space" concept is literally exactly what Matthew R. Kay was referring to in his tweets, right? "How much have students depended on the (somewhat) secure barriers of our physical classrooms to encourage vulnerability?"
Hence why I said I agree with it somewhat, just not the context he was taking it.
If you didn't want a discussion, then why the F did you post it?
EDIT: I also have never had any beef with you ever. For someone who harps on ad hominem attacks so much, you sure did slide to insults pretty fast.
Hence why I said I agree with it somewhat, just not the context he was taking it.
If you didn't want a discussion, then why the F did you post it?
EDIT: I also have never had any beef with you ever. For someone who harps on ad hominem attacks so much, you sure did slide to insults pretty fast.
Bob Smith from Twitter thread hit the nail on the head:
"Gender/sexuality/race topics DON"T BELONG IN THE CLASSROOM. These are VALUES and I don't want some stranger in a public classroom discussing/influencing my kid's values. That is the sole responsibility of the family/parents. It is public school teachers overstepping their bounds."
It was always acceptable for my kids to disrespect their teachers viewpoints. If their teachers tried to preach something that wasn't included in my or wifey's beliefs, we would explain to them that just because they had a teaching degree, it didn't give them any great insight into life. Not to show disrespect mind you, just nod and say yes, knowing what they were wrong. I taught them young that not everyone will share your same beliefs, but they have to live with it, not you. You have to respect their right to believe as they do, if you expect them to respect your beliefs. What we're seeing now is a culmination of parents not raising their kids with morals and boundaries. I'd be mortified if one of mine were out "protesting" and realize that I failed at my most important task in life. Yes, antifa's parents failed them. This is what you get.
"Gender/sexuality/race topics DON"T BELONG IN THE CLASSROOM. These are VALUES and I don't want some stranger in a public classroom discussing/influencing my kid's values. That is the sole responsibility of the family/parents. It is public school teachers overstepping their bounds."
It was always acceptable for my kids to disrespect their teachers viewpoints. If their teachers tried to preach something that wasn't included in my or wifey's beliefs, we would explain to them that just because they had a teaching degree, it didn't give them any great insight into life. Not to show disrespect mind you, just nod and say yes, knowing what they were wrong. I taught them young that not everyone will share your same beliefs, but they have to live with it, not you. You have to respect their right to believe as they do, if you expect them to respect your beliefs. What we're seeing now is a culmination of parents not raising their kids with morals and boundaries. I'd be mortified if one of mine were out "protesting" and realize that I failed at my most important task in life. Yes, antifa's parents failed them. This is what you get.