Tesla

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
I think what would change a lot of people's minds is make the packs easily swappable and you lease the pack so people don't worry about buying a $10k battery for an otherwise fine vehicle. Imagine exchanges like with propane tanks at highway rest stops, there is the quick refill many stick with gas for.
To be honest, not sure why they didn't do that to start with. Interchangeable packs make a lot of sense.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I think what would change a lot of people's minds is make the packs easily swappable and you lease the pack so people don't worry about buying a $10k battery for an otherwise fine vehicle. Imagine exchanges like with propane tanks at highway rest stops, there is the quick refill many stick with gas for.
Now that sounds like a great idea. :yay:
 

glhs837

Power with Control
To be honest, not sure why they didn't do that to start with. Interchangeable packs make a lot of sense.
They did try that early on, but, at least here in America, folks really dont like the idea of the single most valuable part of their car being not theirs. And then you add in the staggering logistical nightmare of pack storage and movement, how many spare packs you keep where, and the square footage to store them, and the manpower for the stations, and the upkeep of the swapping machines, and I don't blame anyone for not pursuing that.

 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
They did try that early on, but, at least here in America, folks really dont like the idea of the single most valuable part of their car being not theirs. And then you add in the staggering logistical nightmare of pack storage and movement, how many spare packs you keep where, and the square footage to store them, and the manpower for the stations, and the upkeep of the swapping machines, and I don't blame anyone for not pursuing that.

I think people would if the price of the car was lowered by that amount.

Everything eventually is going to be a subscription eventually anyway.

The most expensive part of the car already is not theirs ( the right to repair )
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing too many stories like this, once the traditional car companies catch up I can't see things going well.

 

glhs837

Power with Control
I keep seeing too many stories like this, once the traditional car companies catch up I can't see things going well.

So, given that experience is common enough to lower sales, and the sales numbers and owner polls say differently, the questions are.

1. Can Tesla improve the quality?

2. Can the ICE Makers catch up before that happens?

Regarding 1, I think once Austin come online, you will see that improve considerably. Shanghais quality is much better than Fremont, and Austin has learned things from both Shanghai and Berlin. As for the service experience, dont let anecdotal stories blind you to the other experiences that don't "make the news". Every maker has service issues. Anyone whos ever owned a car has had service issues. Asking a customer to take the car today and fix it later isnt just a Tesla thing. Our local Dodge dealer trucked a Jeep up here with the wrong options, betting we would take it anyway. Lat poll I saw said something over 95% of Tesla owners would do it again.


As for 2, the Mach E is the only one so far to even come close, and I think it will take a year or so to see if they will produce it in quantity and it holds up, and if the charging infrastructure catches up.

In Teslas favor, they have two brand new plants beginning production this year, and the Model Y is selling like hotcakes. That vehicles margins should be very hard to beat, given the lower cost of production allowed by those front and rear castings and the new structural battery packs. That seems to be the big problem the OEMS will face. They are aiming for the product Tesla is selling today, but by the time they come to market, Tesla will have already iterated those products to make them a better value. Will they still get market share? Sure, but with only a 2%-3% penetration's by EVs, there's market for everybody.

I'm interested to see more about the Ultium cells. GMs been heavy on talk, low on details and I'm wondering if its a lot of adspeak, or they really did bring something new.
 

Kyle

You're beginning to damage my calm!
PREMO Member
Considering all the bitching about electronic waste now, what's it going to be like in 20 years when tens or hundreds of thousands of these behemoth battery packs are discarded?
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
So, given that experience is common enough to lower sales, and the sales numbers and owner polls say differently, the questions are.

1. Can Tesla improve the quality?

2. Can the ICE Makers catch up before that happens?

Regarding 1, I think once Austin come online, you will see that improve considerably. Shanghais quality is much better than Fremont, and Austin has learned things from both Shanghai and Berlin. As for the service experience, dont let anecdotal stories blind you to the other experiences that don't "make the news". Every maker has service issues. Anyone whos ever owned a car has had service issues. Asking a customer to take the car today and fix it later isnt just a Tesla thing. Our local Dodge dealer trucked a Jeep up here with the wrong options, betting we would take it anyway. Lat poll I saw said something over 95% of Tesla owners would do it again.


As for 2, the Mach E is the only one so far to even come close, and I think it will take a year or so to see if they will produce it in quantity and it holds up, and if the charging infrastructure catches up.

In Teslas favor, they have two brand new plants beginning production this year, and the Model Y is selling like hotcakes. That vehicles margins should be very hard to beat, given the lower cost of production allowed by those front and rear castings and the new structural battery packs. That seems to be the big problem the OEMS will face. They are aiming for the product Tesla is selling today, but by the time they come to market, Tesla will have already iterated those products to make them a better value. Will they still get market share? Sure, but with only a 2%-3% penetration's by EVs, there's market for everybody.

I'm interested to see more about the Ultium cells. GMs been heavy on talk, low on details and I'm wondering if its a lot of adspeak, or they really did bring something new.
You are talking US sales, if I'm not mistaken Nio outsells Tesla in China.

I wouldn't touch a Chrysler product with a 10ft pole, so I'm not sure that's a good comparison.

Well here is a story someone saying how good the service is at the same time saying their lower control arm broke while charging. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-service-sucks.179720/

Remember people not paying attention to their floor mats caused a big dip in sales for the Prius.

The current people that own Tesla's (early adopters) are fanboys or at the very least excited about owning one and less critical than a general consumer.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
You are talking US sales, if I'm not mistaken Nio outsells Tesla in China.

I wouldn't touch a Chrysler product with a 10ft pole, so I'm not sure that's a good comparison.

Well here is a story someone saying how good the service is at the same time saying their lower control arm broke while charging. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-service-sucks.179720/

Remember people not paying attention to their floor mats caused a big dip in sales for the Prius.

The current people that own Tesla's (early adopters) are fanboys or at the very least excited about owning one and less critical than a general consumer.

So, looking at this, there is one car crushing it in China..... looks like this.... and costs about 6K fully loaded.

159050


There's no debating the fact that dealerships service departments are not a source of joy for virtually anyone. And all dealers play games to get sales.

And I think we are leaving the early adopter crowd now, when you look around. Time will tell, of course.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
There's no debating the fact that dealerships service departments are not a source of joy for virtually anyone. And all dealers play games to get sales.
Not at all, but its better than waiting around for someone to show up from god knows where. You can also take a non-Tesla to Joe Bobs garage and it will stay under warranty if they did the same maintenance. That won't fly with Tesla.

The paint on that $6k Chinese car looks better than a few of the Model 3s I've seen close up.
 

Kyle

You're beginning to damage my calm!
PREMO Member
Everything I read shows recycling of those things at about 5% right now.

Even if it grows to 50, that's a lot of toxic metals that will end up in landfills or worse.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Not at all, but its better than waiting around for someone to show up from god knows where. You can also take a non-Tesla to Joe Bobs garage and it will stay under warranty if they did the same maintenance. That won't fly with Tesla.

The paint on that $6k Chinese car looks better than a few of the Model 3s I've seen close up.
Tesla just released repair data, so that should be changing. Paint, well, we'll see once Austin opens up. Both it and Germany are getting brand new paint systems from the best maker of such systems in the world.


Everything I read shows recycling of those things at about 5% right now.

Even if it grows to 50, that's a lot of toxic metals that will end up in landfills or worse.
Most Tesla packs get snapped up for projects of some kind. Most of that data reflects things like Prii or Leaf's, which are not desirable packs. And there were never enough to make recycling worthwhile. But now that we are approaching millions, it becomes worthwhile and industries are spooling up accordingly.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
I think if any of these EV’s ever start selling cheap enough they may get towed to a charger and brought home as a standby generator
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I think if any of these EV’s ever start selling cheap enough they may get towed to a charger and brought home as a standby generator
Tesla's can't be used that way. One thing the future Cybertruck owners are ticked about, espy since Ford announced this functionality for the Lightning F-150. But Ford doesn't sell home batteries, Tesla does.
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
Production of the Chevy Bolt electric vehicles has been halted after a massive recall brought on by a number of battery fires, multiple news outlets are reporting.
General Motors is waiting on new battery modules by LG that it can be confident are not defective, according to The Verge.
"We will not resume repairs or restart production until we are confident LG is producing defect free products for us," GM spokesman Daniel Flores said.
 

Kyle

You're beginning to damage my calm!
PREMO Member
Production of the Chevy Bolt electric vehicles has been halted after a massive recall brought on by a number of battery fires, multiple news outlets are reporting.
General Motors is waiting on new battery modules by LG that it can be confident are not defective, according to The Verge.
"We will not resume repairs or restart production until we are confident LG is producing defect free products for us," GM spokesman Daniel Flores said.
They're missing a marketing opportunity here.

Rebrand it from the Chevy Bolt to the Chevy Car-B-Que!
 

glhs837

Power with Control
They're missing a marketing opportunity here.

Rebrand it from the Chevy Bolt to the Chevy Car-B-Que!
Electric cars are easy. Until you try to build them and sell them. Last I read Chevy was losing anywhere from 7 to 10,000 a car on the bolt. And that number has no connection to recall costs
 
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