That Kaiser Gun Study The Media Love Is Garbage

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
It’s become virtually impossible to find reliable data or polling on gun violence these days. A new Kaiser Family Foundation report being shared by virtually every major media outlet this week offers us a good example of why. The headlines report that “1 in 5 adults” in the United States claim that a “family member” has been “killed” by a gun. And, let’s just say, that’s a highly dubious claim.

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Then again, you can always spot a misleading firearms study by checking if the authors conflate suicides and murders. Kaiser does. The underlying problems leading to a homicide or a suicide are typically very different. So are the solutions. There are numerous countries with virtually no private gun ownership that have persistently high suicide rates. There isn’t any other societal problem in which Kaiser wouldn’t stress the distinction between criminality and mental health struggles.

But even if we count suicides, the claim is fantastical. As are many of the others. If we trust this poll, we would have to accept that around 50 million Americans were personally threatened with a gun. And that 54 percent of American adults — which can be extrapolated to mean 140 million adults — have personally or have a family member who has witnessed a shooting, been threatened by a gun, or been injured or killed by one. (Another 28 percent, or 72 million people, contend they have carried a gun in self-defense — which is also exceedingly unlikely.)

Kaiser’s “key findings” highlight many issues tied to anti-gun activist talking points. In the middle of polling, Kaiser conveniently switches up the definition of an “adult” from 18 and older to over 19, so it can regurgitate the claim that firearms are the leading cause of death among children. Kaiser wonders if your “health care provider” has talked to you about guns or gun safety. Did you know, Kaiser asks, that 6 in 10 parents with guns in their households say a gun is stored in the same location as ammunition?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Many years ago, I helped my wife do some research on guns throughout the world. And one thing I learned was MANY nations don't have anything near reliable gun crime information.

One was the comparison of gun *suicide* data. Several Muslim nations reported - - - ZERO suicides. Oh there were gun deaths. But NONE were from suicide. Because it's disgraceful to commit suicide. Therefore, it doesn't happen. Reminds me of a Muslim friend who told me they didn't have homosexuals in their country. Because it's not allowed in Islam. Therefore - it isn't there.

Other reports had to do with nations like Japan, where suicide can be considered honorable. So when a lunatic Dad shoots his family and then himself - it's a mass suicide.

Lastly, there's a bit of what in the United States would be regarded as law enforcement LAZINESS - and that's the clearance rate for homicide, especially, gun homicide. In this country, sadly, most gun homicides go unresolved. This is because an enormous number of them are gang related.
And gun crimes are harder to solve - they're from a distance, they happen quickly and often have no eyewitnesses. It's not that we don't know the motive - we know that a lot of it is turf wars, we just don't have actual suspects. In many nations, unresolved gun homicides are ruled - suicide. And often, it's ridiculous. But it easily explains why clearance rates for gun homicides in many nations hovers from 85-99% - where in the United States, it's barely 50.

Oddly enough, in the 60's, it was closer to 100. Why? Because some police departments just plain lie about it.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
It’s become virtually impossible to find reliable data or polling on gun violence these days. A new Kaiser Family Foundation report being shared by virtually every major media outlet this week offers us a good example of why. The headlines report that “1 in 5 adults” in the United States claim that a “family member” has been “killed” by a gun. And, let’s just say, that’s a highly dubious claim.
I really need to examine their methodology. Because that's statistically impossible.

Assuming - irrationally - that every death mentioned either refers to a unique death or classifies family member as someone remotely related to you, it's not even remotely possible. There have been 1.4 million gun deaths since 1968. Since obviously 1 in 5 of over 300 million current residents means in excess of 60 million - you know something is a little off. Sixty million compared to 1.4 million actual deaths means LOTS of persons have been counted MANY times.

And sorry, but this is a stupid way of conducting a survey. Counting my uncles and aunts and cousins and their kids, my extended family has about 70 members. Since we had a cousin shot in a drug deal back in the 70's - the only gun death - EVERY ONE OF US could say, yeah, we had a family member shot by a gun. If on the other hand, you were to publish the number of gun deaths WITHIN THAT FAMILY over 55 years - you'd have a grand total of ONE.

So - I realize what they are TRYING to say, but it really doesn't say much. Given the size of families and covering many years - you could EASILY manufacture a similar statistic for MANY countries, even those with low numbers of gun homicides.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
. Did you know, Kaiser asks, that 6 in 10 parents with guns in their households say a gun is stored in the same location as ammunition?
Fawk that noise. How about 10 in 10 (I kid..more like 30 out of 30..but I digress) are "stored" loaded, cocked, and ready to rock? Morons..all of them.
 
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