The All-White Elephant in the Room................

[Bruzilla]

What republican is doing that? I think it is the opportunistic media who are holding his feet to the fire. It does kind of suck, Obama has been Teflon for so long I bet he hates the scrutiny and now he is getting boo-boo lip and getting angry, so says his wife. Well let me tell you Bru Obama has not been exactly silent is crawling up Bush's ass on a daily basis for partisan bullchit smears. If he can't take the heat for his own created problems how is he going to deal with an onslaught like he is going to get in the White House when people pick apart his every move?

Pretty much every Republican who gets asked about it. I had hopes that McCain would rise above these attacks, but he threw his hat in with the low-lifes last week.

I don't get how you have pseudo chastise people who sit back and wonder how he could name a guy his mentor, perform his wedding, baptise his kids, and be his spiritual advisor for 20 years when he publicly preaches hate and that the government created AIDS to kill off the black man. Where do YOU get off doing this?

Pete, I would be right there with you guys on this IF you could just show me some minor shred of proof that your allegation is correct. I keep asking for some valid evidence that Wright has been preaching hate for 20 years, but no one, repeat - NO ONE, has been able to offer up that proof. If my old minister was the subject of this discussion I could see how it would be hard to find evidence with a small congregation and sermons that are never videotaped. But every one of Wright's sermons for more than ten years has been videotaped, why is it that no one has been able to find a single video of Wright preaching hate except for the two from last year after he had started retiring? If your charges were correct, and Obama had been sitting in a church where a minister was preaching hate in front of a video camera for years, there should be hours of video to substantiate that claim... but there isn't. I just can't tell you how shocking I find it that so many people who I have long considered to be thoughtful and deliberative in their thinking, have been so quick to swallow any allegation provided it is made against someone they don't approve of. Even worse is your repeated name calling of people like me who are being thoughtful and deliberative.

I have heard Democrats sounding just like you for the past eight years, calling me names because I refused to believe that Bush was behind 9/11... that Republicans were responsible for the ENRON collapse... that Halliburton was behind the war in Iraq, etc. They responded the same way you and others do when I asked them if that's true, where's the proof? Like you guys, they could never provide any either. They sound just like: "Your pompous elitist bullchit is so thin. You really ARE turning pinko. You take peoples legitimate concerns and belittle them in an attempt to make them feel evil for even doubting his character. You are stupid for doubting him, you are retarded for not researching his REAL record."

It isn't working. You are not going to convince people that Obama did not know what Wright thought and said and that by condoning it and staying and maintaining a close personal relationship for 20 years that Obama is the poor victim of some conspiracy.

You don't get it. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Obama did not know what Wright thought and said. What I am trying to point out is that no one knows what Wright thought and said unless they were sitting in that church for 20 years, or, they went through all the sermon videos. You are assuming to know, and I've found that assuming to know anything is never good. You want to assume knowledge, go ahead. I've bought into too much BS in my life to take the validity of any charge for granted. If you've got proof, I'll support your view. If you don't then your view is worthless.

Further you are not going to march out "800 bills in the Illinois Senate", most of them on hot button issues like how far apart to put highway reflectors should be and if Yams should be added to the public school menu, and say the man is presidential material based on his vast legislative experience. You throw around "co-sponsored" like it means something. In the Illinois Senate you co-sponsor a bill by filling out a form and sending it to the secretary..

So are you saying I should judge a candidate's potential as president based on two of 800 bills that you cite? What about the other 798? What were they about? I know that he had quite a few major bills authored and passed in that 798.

Face it dude, people have legitimate concerns and the answers are not coming. It is Obama's job to convince these people he is up to the job and for many democrats and very few republicans he is not answering the questions and when he does it is after he is pinned down and can't wiggle free and he comes off as disingenuous.

So what are these questions that aren't being answered? That was the rub from the Clinton camp when Obama hadn't released his plans for healthcare and the economy, but those were released some months ago. So what are these questions that Republicans and Democrats, and yourself, feel are being asked and not answered???

 

[Pete]

...I have a question;

Who do you want to win, Hillary or Barack? If Hillary wins, she will win the Whitehouse. If Barrack wins, it will be a disaster of Biblical proportions when the American people, as a whole, have to see his sneering, hate filled wife on a regular basis. It will be a disaster when his endless platitudinous, condescending speeches get heard more and more and more. When his Che' minions come out into the sun to wave their banners and cry for power to the people, it will set the Democratic party back over a generation. When Barrack spells out new government program after new government program and spells out the path to a socialist nation that controls private business and tells it how much it can and can not make, when investors start freaking out that this loon may actually be serious, it's over.

There's a sound case to be made to pull for Barrack. I used to think it would be fun to watch the Clinton's blow up this fall, but, well, Barrack has made her look like the centrists, the moderate. I didn't think that was possible. However, he is either that serious about his positions or he's a moron.

In any event, it may serve the nation, as a whole, long term, to deal with this rising socialist tide now. Or maybe not.

That is a hard one. All the hopefuls make be retch. Obama is a socialist and if he gets elected in my opinion it will cause gridlock the likes we have never seen before. What he does get through congress will take this country even further left. I for one am not looking forward to being taxed out of my own skin for someone else's Harvard educated or not, for his idea of a perfect socialist community.

On the Pete's political earthquake Richter scale Obama is a 9.

Clinton is a shill. If we had any idea of how corrupt she really was we might deport her to Angola. That being said I disagree with her politics as well. She wants to get in my pocket, despite her arguments to the contrary. She wants to social engineer, adversely impact business and she will polarize Washington. She is a ball busting bia which in my opinion is not bad trait for a chief executive but it will not play well with congress.

On the Pete's political earthquake Richter scale Clinton is a 7.

McCain is a RINO but he has used his left lean to reach across and remove road blocks. I started a thread about the Gang of 12 and no one posted in it. McCain stopped the "nuclear option" and broke the quagmire of federal judge appointments. yea he was responsible for McCain Feingold which I think was good in spirit and intent, wrong in application. He has pledged to appoint Thomas, Scalia justices, renew the tax breaks and I think he is going to be friendly to business which we all know is the heartbeat of the country.

On the Pete's political earthquake Richter scale McCain is a 5.

In my opinion as far as potential damage goes as much as I hate to think about it McCain has the potential to do less damage and he will take the country the least amount to the left.

as far as the Democratic nomination I don't trust people enough to play the X can beat Y but Y can beat Z so we need to root for X so Z can win. It seems the sentiment is that Obama cannot beat McCain, I do not believe this is true. I believe Obama can beat McCain based soley on his charisma and the youth, far left and stupid voters alone.

An Obama win in my humble opinion in the primary is too risky, and in the general would be cataclysmic.

A Clinton win in my humble opinion in the primary does not mean she can beat McCain, and in the general it would cause me discomfort and nervousness but we survived her husband for 8 years I believe we would survive her.

 

[Larry Gude]

You're...

ARE YOU FOR REAL?????

Bill Clinton - and his sneering, hate-filled CORRUPT wife - was elected TWICE!!


Sounds like that same two-term President to me.


Oops! There he is again!

Where do you get your crazy notions, because they are not based on any kind of reality or historical observations?

..dumb. I am smart.

 

[Bruzilla]

When Barrack spells out new government program after new government program and spells out the path to a socialist nation that controls private business and tells it how much it can and can not make, when investors start freaking out that this loon may actually be serious, it's over.

That's an excellent point Larry. Now, let me ask you this. When this happens, and I think it's pretty certain Obama would do just as you decibed, what do you see that huge block of conservative and moderate democrats who got elected in 2006 doing? They may be Democrats, but they represent conservative Republican disticts in most cases. If they support Obama on his march to the left margins, they will be ending their political careers in most cases. So do you think they will march over the cliff with Obama or save their own skins and oppose him?

 

[Larry Gude]

She kills...

A Clinton win in my humble opinion in the primary does not mean she can beat McCain, and in the general it would cause me discomfort and nervousness but we survived her husband for 8 years I believe we would survive her.

...McCain. Most of the left will get their diapers changed and then get excited about a woman president and the chance to defeat W's 'clone' McCain. Plus, the chance to shove operation Chaos up Limbaugh's ass alone would be enough motivation.

Hillary these last months has learned to lose that "I am too intelligent to go out there and play pied piper!" thing. She's smiling, she's enjoying the battle, the challenge. She's looking and acting like a winner.

 

[Larry Gude]

I see...

That's an excellent point Larry. Now, let me ask you this. When this happens, and I think it's pretty certain Obama would do just as you decibed, what do you see that huge block of conservative and moderate democrats who got elected in 2006 doing? They may be Democrats, but they represent conservative Republican disticts in most cases. If they support Obama on his march to the left margins, they will be ending their political careers in most cases. So do you think they will march over the cliff with Obama or save their own skins and oppose him?

...maybe, a repeat of 1994 when a left wing freak run amok in the WH scares people to the right. Only this time, maybe there is no Newt to sabotage the movement.

 

[Bruzilla]

That is a hard one. All the hopefuls make be retch. Obama is a socialist and if he gets elected in my opinion it will cause gridlock the likes we have never seen before. What he does get through congress will take this country even further left. I for one am not looking forward to being taxed out of my own skin for someone else's Harvard educated or not, for his idea of a perfect socialist community.

On the Pete's political earthquake Richter scale Obama is a 9.

Clinton is a shill. If we had any idea of how corrupt she really was we might deport her to Angola. That being said I disagree with her politics as well. She wants to get in my pocket, despite her arguments to the contrary. She wants to social engineer, adversely impact business and she will polarize Washington. She is a ball busting bia which in my opinion is not bad trait for a chief executive but it will not play well with congress.

On the Pete's political earthquake Richter scale Clinton is a 7.

McCain is a RINO but he has used his left lean to reach across and remove road blocks. I started a thread about the Gang of 12 and no one posted in it. McCain stopped the "nuclear option" and broke the quagmire of federal judge appointments. yea he was responsible for McCain Feingold which I think was good in spirit and intent, wrong in application. He has pledged to appoint Thomas, Scalia justices, renew the tax breaks and I think he is going to be friendly to business which we all know is the heartbeat of the country.

On the Pete's political earthquake Richter scale McCain is a 5.

In my opinion as far as potential damage goes as much as I hate to think about it McCain has the potential to do less damage and he will take the country the least amount to the left.

as far as the Democratic nomination I don't trust people enough to play the X can beat Y but Y can beat Z so we need to root for X so Z can win. It seems the sentiment is that Obama cannot beat McCain, I do not believe this is true. I believe Obama can beat McCain based soley on his charisma and the youth, far left and stupid voters alone.

An Obama win in my humble opinion in the primary is too risky, and in the general would be cataclysmic.

A Clinton win in my humble opinion in the primary does not mean she can beat McCain, and in the general it would cause me discomfort and nervousness but we survived her husband for 8 years I believe we would survive her.

I agree with your assessment, but what I think is more important than what the President will do is what the Congress will do. POTUS can't do squat alone, so no matter how bad a person gets into the White House, the measure of how much damage they can do is mainly based on what the Congress will do. If McCain makes a lot of compromise deals with Democrats... who always get the long and clean end of that stick with McCain, the Congress will support him. If Obama dashes off to the extreme left, I can see Democrats who were elected from Conservative districts opposing him.

 

[vraiblonde]

So do you think they will march over the cliff with Obama or save their own skins and oppose him?

Gee, Bru - what did they do with Bill Clinton?

 

[Bruzilla]

...maybe, a repeat of 1994 when a left wing freak run amok in the WH scares people to the right. Only this time, maybe there is no Newt to sabotage the movement.

It was my hope that we would have enough Republicans to tip the boat, but it's looking more and more like we'll have less rather than more. I hate to say it, but I think we're going to have to trust in Dems from conservative districts to see us through.

 

[Larry Gude]

The hell...

It was my hope that we would have enough Republicans to tip the boat, but it's looking more and more like we'll have less rather than more. I hate to say it, but I think we're going to have to trust in Dems from conservative districts to see us through.

...with Republicans; We are in need of conservatives.

 

[Bruzilla]

Well, you obviously know more about who I will vote for than I do.

And, with that, I'm through arguing with you.

Hmmm... so you're saying I can't possibly know what you think or what you will do because there's certainly no evidence available for me to review and make that determination. Congratulations Vrai! You are correct!

So why is that you and so many others are certain of what Wright thought and said for the past 20 years despite a total absence of evidence for the past 19 or so years? How is it that you are so certain of what Obama thinks and will do based on what his paster had said???

Seems to be a double standard here.

 

[Pete]

Pretty much every Republican who gets asked about it. I had hopes that McCain would rise above these attacks, but he threw his hat in with the low-lifes last week.

I haven't heard McCain say squat about Wright. Sure people with an R behind their name have commented but what do you expect it is news.

Pete, I would be right there with you guys on this IF you could just show me some minor shred of proof that your allegation is correct. I keep asking for some valid evidence that Wright has been preaching hate for 20 years, but no one, repeat - NO ONE, has been able to offer up that proof. If my old minister was the subject of this discussion I could see how it would be hard to find evidence with a small congregation and sermons that are never videotaped. But every one of Wright's sermons for more than ten years has been videotaped, why is it that no one has been able to find a single video of Wright preaching hate except for the two from last year after he had started retiring? If your charges were correct, and Obama had been sitting in a church where a minister was preaching hate in front of a video camera for years, there should be hours of video to substantiate that claim... but there isn't. I just can't tell you how shocking I find it that so many people who I have long considered to be thoughtful and deliberative in their thinking, have been so quick to swallow any allegation provided it is made against someone they don't approve of. Even worse is your repeated name calling of people like me who are being thoughtful and deliberative.

This is what I am talking about and it is ludicris. You are still pounding the gong about "Proove he was doing it for 20 years" alternated with "I am not voting for Wright to be president" for freshness.

These are the facts.

1. Obama was close to Wright for 20 years.

2. Wright had Obama's ear.

3. Wright promoted hate, anti American sentiment and outlandish accusations on several occasions.

4. Obama never distanced himself and denied ever hearing those types of comments.

5. Once it was blown open Obama made his historic speech and said "I could no more denounce Reverend Wright than my own white grandmother" meaning he was NOT going to denounce him but he did admitt he HAD heard them or heard of them.

6. When Wright persisted and the burner turned to boil he finally, finally denounced Wright's comments.

20 year, 9 years 2 years, I MAKES NO DIFFERENCE! He lied about ever hearing it, then he refused to denounce it, and finally when it was causing huge political dammage he finally relented and took the podium to denounce the comments.

I have heard Democrats sounding just like you for the past eight years, calling me names because I refused to believe that Bush was behind 9/11... that Republicans were responsible for the ENRON collapse... that Halliburton was behind the war in Iraq, etc. They responded the same way you and others do when I asked them if that's true, where's the proof? Like you guys, they could never provide any either. They sound just like: "Your pompous elitist bullchit is so thin. You really ARE turning pinko. You take peoples legitimate concerns and belittle them in an attempt to make them feel evil for even doubting his character. You are stupid for doubting him, you are retarded for not researching his REAL record."

Jibberish, total and absolute jibberish. You will not shame me by trying to compare me to democrats and their tactics. You are wasting electrons and time typing. Move on and try something else.

You don't get it. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Obama did not know what Wright thought and said. What I am trying to point out is that no one knows what Wright thought and said unless they were sitting in that church for 20 years, or, they went through all the sermon videos. You are assuming to know, and I've found that assuming to know anything is never good. You want to assume knowledge, go ahead. I've bought into too much BS in my life to take the validity of any charge for granted. If you've got proof, I'll support your view. If you don't then your view is worthless.

See above. It is ludicris you are making excuses for Obama and spinning this for him. This "well prove he did it for 20 years" dog don't hunt and never will. He knew Wright for 20 years. Wright made anti American and outlandish comments from the pulpit of his church 7 years ago and since. Obama did not say "Whoa, this is nutty and stupid, I gotta take my kids out of here"

THAT IS ALL I NEED!

but then he did his speech and refused to denounce Wright.

That was more than I needed.

Now since he finally reletned when it reached critical mass I am supposed to get a warm fuzzy? Not gonna happen.

So are you saying I should judge a candidate's potential as president based on two of 800 bills that you cite? What about the other 798? What were they about? I know that he had quite a few major bills authored and passed in that 798.

Read my lips; 800, 1800 or 8000 bills in the Illinois Senate does NOT equate to Chief Executive experience. Strike 1 What he did author was leftist, strike 2. He is a first term Senator with 2 years experience on a national level, Strike 3.

Next you are going to say 3 term ST Mary's County Commisioner Kenny Dement has the experience to be elected governor of Maryland.

 

[vraiblonde]

Hmmm... so you're saying I can't possibly know what you think or what you will do because there's certainly no evidence available for me to review and make that determination.

Let me shout so you can see:

I HAVE MADE NUMEROUS POSTS ON HERE STATING MY OPINION OF JOHN MCCAIN, AND HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM.

Please feel free to form your opinion on that, not on what your vivid imagination conjures up.

 

[Pete]

Hmmm... so you're saying I can't possibly know what you think or what you will do because there's certainly no evidence available for me to review and make that determination. Congratulations Vrai! You are correct!

So why is that you and so many others are certain of what Wright thought and said for the past 20 years despite a total absence of evidence for the past 19 or so years? How is it that you are so certain of what Obama thinks and will do based on what his paster had said???

Seems to be a double standard here.

OK Bru, for the last time. Your argument is foolish, tired and not convincing. If I hung out with Larry for 20 years and 7 after he made inflammatory public statements about the flower growing industry, named him my "horticultural advisor" then ran for the presidency of the "US Horticultural Society" what do you think every flower grower in the US is going to think?

 

[Larry Gude]

That...

OK Bru, for the last time. Your argument is foolish, tired and not convincing. If I hung out with Larry for 20 years and 7 after he made inflammatory public statements about the flower growing industry, named him my "horticultural advisor" then ran for the presidency of the "US Horticultural Society" what do you think every flower grower in the US is going to think?

...you're an idiot whose judgement is not questionable; you proved it to be poor.

 

[Larry Gude]

I knew...

Let me shout so you can see:

I HAVE MADE NUMEROUS POSTS ON HERE STATING MY OPINION OF JOHN MCCAIN, AND HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM.

Please feel free to form your opinion on that, not on what your vivid imagination conjures up.

...you were gonna vote for him when it came down to it!

 

[Bruzilla]

See above. It is ludicris you are making excuses for Obama and spinning this for him. This "well prove he did it for 20 years" dog don't hunt and never will. He knew Wright for 20 years. Wright made anti American and outlandish comments from the pulpit of his church 7 years ago and since. Obama did not say "Whoa, this is nutty and stupid, I gotta take my kids out of here."

I'm nto disputing the fact that Wright made those comments last year. All I'm asking for is to see some proof that he's been making them for 20 years. All I have heard him say was stuff from two sermons after he retired. To you that may make no difference as you are obviously willing to swallow any anti-Obama crap that comes your way. Me? I'm not that foolish anymore.... I used to be... but not anymore.

As to the post 9/11 sermon, when Wright made some outrageous comments along with a lot of others, how is the guy could make an anti-American sermon and ABC News is all over it, but no one bothers to mention all these other sermons you are so certain about??? You sound EXACTLY like all the tin hatters on the left. Who needs evidence to support your allegations when BS will do. I will hopefully never be that pathetic.

 

[Bruzilla]

OK Bru, for the last time. Your argument is foolish, tired and not convincing. If I hung out with Larry for 20 years and 7 after he made inflammatory public statements about the flower growing industry, named him my "horticultural advisor" then ran for the presidency of the "US Horticultural Society" what do you think every flower grower in the US is going to think?

That you're Gay?

 

[Bruzilla]

Let me shout so you can see:

I HAVE MADE NUMEROUS POSTS ON HERE STATING MY OPINION OF JOHN MCCAIN, AND HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM.

Please feel free to form your opinion on that, not on what your vivid imagination conjures up.

I get it Vrai! I can't possibly know what you'll do or what you think. So how is it you're so sure about what Obama thinks based on the comments of his minister? THAT IS THE QUESTION.

 

[Pete]

I'm nto disputing the fact that Wright made those comments last year. All I'm asking for is to see some proof that he's been making them for 20 years. All I have heard him say was stuff from two sermons after he retired. To you that may make no difference as you are obviously willing to swallow any anti-Obama crap that comes your way. Me? I'm not that foolish anymore.... I used to be... but not anymore.

As to the post 9/11 sermon, when Wright made some outrageous comments along with a lot of others, how is the guy could make an anti-American sermon and ABC News is all over it, but no one bothers to mention all these other sermons you are so certain about??? You sound EXACTLY like all the tin hatters on the left. Who needs evidence to support your allegations when BS will do. I will hopefully never be that pathetic.

don't look now but you are at the helm of the SS Pathetic. Is your last name Huffington?