The Backlash Against Tithing

[nhboy]

"Can you put a price on faith? That is the question churchgoers are asking as the tradition of tithing -- giving 10% of your income to the church -- is increasingly challenged. Opponents of tithing say it is a misreading of the Bible, a practice created by man, not God. They say they should be free to donate whatever amount they choose, and they are arguing with pastors, writing letters and quitting congregations in protest. In response, some pastors have changed their teaching and rejected what has been a favored form of fund raising for decades."

The Backlash Against Tithing - WSJ.com

 

[shell_belle67]

There should never be a price on faith.

In August 2006 my brother was seriously injured after falling off a roof, he suffered from a pilon fracture which totally shattered his ankle bone. He lived with us for 6 months while he recovered. My brother has always been self employed so he never had benefits so his time off was without pay. He had made $1,500.00 on the job he was on at the time he was injured which was spend in the first month for prescriptions and his rent payment at his apartment. That didn’t even touch the $50,000 Surgery/Hospital Bill from Union Memorial and that didn’t even include the anesthesiologist bills and local doctor visits. It totally devastated my brother to have to ask for help for every little thing he needed to do.

After the first month he had called the 700 Club, which he is a member of, and explained to them that he could not send money for a while until he got back on his feet. The person on the phone laid a 20 minute guilt trip on my brother for not being able to send money and he was so frustrated after speaking with them. He wanted to send them the $200 he had left and I refused. He couldn’t do it himself because he was still bedridden. My brother and I argued over this because that $200 was all he had left and he wanted to give it to the church.

My brother was doing work on his friend’s house when he got injured and he refused to file a law suit against his friend’s home owners insurance even though they suggested he do it. That’s how good of a guy my brother is and I would have done the same thing.

Union Memorial was a fantastic hospital and gave my brother exemplary care, I recommend them to anyone. They worked with him on his bill; they were very pleasant to deal with and signed my brother up for charity help for his medical bills. He received word after a few months that his medical bill was paid in full.

My brother has since regained a little over 50% of his ankle usage and is back to work, he’s not doing tree work and probably never will be able to again but he is back to doing construction work. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if started giving the 700 Club a percentage of his weekly pay again even though he is barely making ends meet.

It totally sickens me that some churches rate people’s faith on the size of their wallets.

 

[itsbob]

There should never be a price on faith.

In August 2006 my brother was seriously injured after falling off a roof, he suffered from a pilon fracture which totally shattered his ankle bone. He lived with us for 6 months while he recovered. My brother has always been self employed so he never had benefits so his time off was without pay. He had made $1,500.00 on the job he was on at the time he was injured which was spend in the first month for prescriptions and his rent payment at his apartment. That didn’t even touch the $50,000 Surgery/Hospital Bill from Union Memorial and that didn’t even include the anesthesiologist bills and local doctor visits. It totally devastated my brother to have to ask for help for every little thing he needed to do.

After the first month he had called the 700 Club, which he is a member of, and explained to them that he could not send money for a while until he got back on his feet. The person on the phone laid a 20 minute guilt trip on my brother for not being able to send money and he was so frustrated after speaking with them. He wanted to send them the $200 he had left and I refused. He couldn’t do it himself because he was still bedridden. My brother and I argued over this because that $200 was all he had left and he wanted to give it to the church.

My brother was doing work on his friend’s house when he got injured and he refused to file a law suit against his friend’s home owners insurance even though they suggested he do it. That’s how good of a guy my brother is and I would have done the same thing.

Union Memorial was a fantastic hospital and gave my brother exemplary care, I recommend them to anyone. They worked with him on his bill; they were very pleasant to deal with and signed my brother up for charity help for his medical bills. He received word after a few months that his medical bill was paid in full.

My brother has since regained a little over 50% of his ankle usage and is back to work, he’s not doing tree work and probably never will be able to again but he is back to doing construction work. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if started giving the 700 Club a percentage of his weekly pay again even though he is barely making ends meet.

It totally sickens me that some churches rate people’s faith on the size of their wallets.

See, now I would have figured the 700 club would have asked how they could have helped.. being a good tithe payer in good times, the church should return the favor in bad.. ESPECIALLY in his instance. I mean that is what a church is all about, good works?? Helping the less fortunate?? But instead they asked him to send more money.. Must have been time to pay the tax bill on all the churches McMansions, and Limos..

 

[2ndAmendment]

See, now I would have figured the 700 club would have asked how they could have helped.. being a good tithe payer in good times, the church should return the favor in bad.. ESPECIALLY in his instance. I mean that is what a church is all about, good works?? Helping the less fortunate?? But instead they asked him to send more money.. Must have been time to pay the tax bill on all the churches McMansions, and Limos..

We agree.

The 700 Club and some other organizations are not about Christ, they may have stated that way, but are about fund raising. Most of the churches I have been associated with over the years have given to those in the congregation when they were in need. I was the recipient of money from my church when I was out of work for a year. In addition, some families would have me over for dinner and at Christmas, they brought two grocery bags of food and goodies.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Tithing is an old testament practice. The new testament teaches that it ALL belongs to God. It is NOT man made no matter what anyone says or thinks. Abraham started it in Genesis 14 but it isn't required in the new testament. Jesus taught in the NT that each one gives what he feels God is asking him to give, remembering that God controls it all so we should not choose to be stingy with what isn't ours in the first place. Many organizations do what the 700 club did. I've heard many similar stories. It will be sad for them on judgment day.

 

[BS Gal]

I do not go to church, though I believe in God. I try to do good in my every day life. I am now helping Geek's friend, through donations and making meals. I believe that God wants us to put our good fortune to helping others and that is where I come in. I try to help people in need. I'm giving a goat to some family somewhere in my dad's memory for Xmas. That will give them milk for years. Is it mandatory that you go to church? I think being a good person will get me into heaven. I don't need to go to church and donate $. I need to do good deeds, though. And I do.

 

[godsbutterfly]

I do not go to church, though I believe in God. I try to do good in my every day life. I am now helping Geek's friend, through donations and making meals. I believe that God wants us to put our good fortune to helping others and that is where I come in. I try to help people in need. I'm giving a goat to some family somewhere in my dad's memory for Xmas. That will give them milk for years. Is it mandatory that you go to church? I think being a good person will get me into heaven. I don't need to go to church and donate $. I need to do good deeds, though. And I do.

It's not the good deeds that get you into Heaven and it's not the going to church that does it either. It is whether or not you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and whether or not you repent when you sin. We all sin and no sins are bigger than others. You don't have to go to church and confess to anybody. Just talking to God is all you need to do. The main reason for going to church is to assemble together with other Christians and share with each other the spirit of unity and prayer requests and blessings you have experienced and just to join together in praise and worship. Of course it is also to hear more about God. If a person goes every Sunday just to look good to the Community they are wasting their time - God can spot a phony! He knows what is in our hearts. I enjoy going because I teach ages 3 to 5 in Sunday School and I need to get together with other Christians after the stresses of the week! That's just me!

 

[ItalianScallion]

I do not go to church, though I believe in God. I try to do good in my every day life. I am now helping Geek's friend, through donations and making meals. I believe that God wants us to put our good fortune to helping others and that is where I come in. I try to help people in need. I'm giving a goat to some family somewhere in my dad's memory for Xmas. That will give them milk for years. Is it mandatory that you go to church? I think being a good person will get me into heaven. I don't need to go to church and donate $. I need to do good deeds, though. And I do.

Good for you BSgal. It won't go unblessed. And, no, you don't need to go to church to get to heaven BUT, you can't get there by just "being a good person". Faith in Jesus gets you in. Faith that shows He is leading your life, not just knowing that He is "up there". The good deeds (should) naturally come from your new life in Christ. That said, there are good & bad organizations everywhere claiming to be Christian but many are not. The good ones need money to keep running and they should be supported by us. If no one gave to any of these organizations, they might not stay around long. Sadly, like the 700 club, those to whom you give, should be thoroughly checked out first, then carefully watched thereafter.

 

[Dondi]

My brother has since regained a little over 50% of his ankle usage and is back to work, he’s not doing tree work and probably never will be able to again but he is back to doing construction work. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if started giving the 700 Club a percentage of his weekly pay again even though he is barely making ends meet.

The 700 Club is not a church. Therefore your brother ought not to send tithes to it. A church is a group of believers who gather together to worship God in a local community. Despite the arguments that tithing is an Old Testament practice, the principle is the same. Tithes should be used for the benefit of the pastor and the facilities where a group gathers. For a pastor to be effective he ought to be able be available at any time of the day. So a pastor working a full time or even a part time job will not have the flexibility to function in the office in which he is called. Therefore, as a full time pastor, he should be supported and salaried by that church. And since there are inherent costs in the maintenance and upkeep of the church building, those costs should also be inncurred through member support.

The idea of having a free donation mentality is that it doesn't allow for consistent giving. The pastor will never know how much he will be getting on any given week. Tithing 10% at least allows for some kind of projected budget.

BTW, the church doesn't belong to the pastor. It belongs to the members of that church (if it is independent, of course). By encouraging the members to tithe, you also ensure that the work can continue and give a sense that they are investing into something worthwhile for the common good. There should also be provision to help people in need, for whatever the reason. This is in line with the principle laid out in Acts 4:31-35:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

 

[Marie]

I do not go to church, though I believe in God. I try to do good in my every day life. I am now helping Geek's friend, through donations and making meals. I believe that God wants us to put our good fortune to helping others and that is where I come in. I try to help people in need. I'm giving a goat to some family somewhere in my dad's memory for Xmas. That will give them milk for years. Is it mandatory that you go to church? I think being a good person will get me into heaven. I don't need to go to church and donate $. I need to do good deeds, though. And I do.

Have you taken the Good Person Test? I never met anyone that passed it!
NeedGod.com

In all seriousness, if you dont understand that no one is a good person, take it just for to find out why. If your like the rest of us your measuring yourself against mans standards not Gods.

MARK 10 17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

 

[Xaquin44]

Have you taken the Good Person Test? I never met anyone that passed it!
NeedGod.com

yeah .... it's impossible.

 

[itsbob]

The 700 Club is not a church. Therefore your brother ought not to send tithes to it. A church is a group of believers who gather together to worship God in a local community. Despite the arguments that tithing is an Old Testament practice, the principle is the same. Tithes should be used for the benefit of the pastor and the facilities where a group gathers. For a pastor to be effective he ought to be able be available at any time of the day. So a pastor working a full time or even a part time job will not have the flexibility to function in the office in which he is called. Therefore, as a full time pastor, he should be supported and salaried by that church. And since there are inherent costs in the maintenance and upkeep of the church building, those costs should also be inncurred through member support.

The idea of having a free donation mentality is that it doesn't allow for consistent giving. The pastor will never know how much he will be getting on any given week. Tithing 10% at least allows for some kind of projected budget.

BTW, the church doesn't belong to the pastor. It belongs to the members of that church (if it is independent, of course). By encouraging the members to tithe, you also ensure that the work can continue and give a sense that they are investing into something worthwhile for the common good. There should also be provision to help people in need, for whatever the reason. This is in line with the principle laid out in Acts 4:31-35:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

So the poor pastor who has a congregation of 100 working people/ families that make an average of 80,000 a year has to live on a paltry $800,000 a year???

And don't forget the TRUE faithful tithe their pre-tax income too..

OH the humanity!!

OH the sacrifice!!

What's lost is tithing (sacrifice) was for the purpose of showing faith to God.. tithe was the top ten percent.. ie.. If you were a shephard, you sacrificed the top 10% or your herd.. or the best 10% of your crop.. to show faith to God.. God doesn't really need sheep or wheat, and by God he doesn't need your money..

Now you should ask your pastor if he'll accept 10% of your time in lieu of money.. or 10% of your talent.. Say if you're a doctor, give 4 hours a week to the church for physicals or medical needs of the church staff.. or if you are a carpenter, 4 hours a week of your time doing repair and maintenance on the church.. etc.. etc.. tithe does NOT mean money.. it's just the way the current churches have interpreted if for you, and it's a way for them to stay in business.

When a church sells off all it's billions or TRILLIONS of dollars of assets to get by, then I'll believe they may need my money to help. imagine if ALL the assetts of all the major churches were sold off, and the money raised given to charitable causes, what a great place the world would be today.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Tithing as its currently practiced is an Old Testament practice that was bastardized by the Various churches.
Wasnt it Jacob (the Grandson of Abraham) the one that started the Tithing practice? If so the practice he started is/was TOTALLY different than how its practiced today.
He (Jacob) did not offer a "tenth unto thee" (God that is) UNTIL God blessed him (Jacob) FIRST. Which is the opposite of how the Church preaches it now.
The original Tithe wasnt money (according to the Bible) it was a Tenth of "Goods"

• The tithe comes from the "land," not the air or the sea. Fishermen were not required to tithe fish.
• It was the "seed" or agricultural products from the fields that was holy to God and tithable.
• Products from "trees" were to be tithed. This not only included the fruit, but oils, etc.
• Of "herds or flocks" it was the "tenth" that passed under the rod that was holy and dedicated to God.

If a sheppard/herdsmen only nine cattle, he didn’t have to tithe (read Leviticus 27:32 again). Also God did not require the best of the cattle, just the tenth one to pass under the rod even if it was the scrawniest.

You is correct my friend! Many organizations have (done what you said) to tithing. Their main push is for money and from those groups I tell people; RUN FAST!
And yes, Jacob did give God a tithe, but Abraham gave the first recorded tithe to Melchizedek in Genesis 14 v 20 because he acknowledged the Creator & God of Abraham (v19 & 20). Jesus was compared to Melchizedek later in the NT in Hebrews 7 v 11-20.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So the poor pastor who has a congregation of 100 working people/ families that make an average of 80,000 a year has to live on a paltry $800,000 a year???

And don't forget the TRUE faithful tithe their pre-tax income too..

OH the humanity!!

OH the sacrifice!!

What's lost is tithing (sacrifice) was for the purpose of showing faith to God.. tithe was the top ten percent.. ie.. If you were a shephard, you sacrificed the top 10% or your herd.. or the best 10% of your crop.. to show faith to God.. God doesn't really need sheep or wheat, and by God he doesn't need your money..

Now you should ask your pastor if he'll accept 10% of your time in lieu of money.. or 10% of your talent.. Say if you're a doctor, give 4 hours a week to the church for physicals or medical needs of the church staff.. or if you are a carpenter, 4 hours a week of your time doing repair and maintenance on the church.. etc.. etc.. tithe does NOT mean money.. it's just the way the current churches have interpreted if for you, and it's a way for them to stay in business.

When a church sells off all it's billions or TRILLIONS of dollars of assets to get by, then I'll believe they may need my money to help. imagine if ALL the assetts of all the major churches were sold off, and the money raised given to charitable causes, what a great place the world would be today.

The pastor of a church does not get the tithe; the church does. The church decides what salary the pastor gets. The money is used for building maintenance, missions, utilities, helping church members financially in need, and many other things in addition to the salary of the pastor.

The churches I have been associated with will gladly accept work or items of value in lieu of money.

 

[itsbob]

The pastor of a church does not get the tithe; the church does. The church decides what salary the pastor gets. The money is used for building maintenance, missions, utilities, helping church members financially in need, and many other things in addition to the salary of the pastor.

The churches I have been associated with will gladly accept work or items of value in lieu of money.

in SOME cases that is true.. but in MOST cases it is not.

Most of these "bible study" churches.. Christian centers.. etc. oh, and according ot our Baptist pastor, that Baptists.. the money stays put, there is no higher church, or higher authority, no national tithe collection center.. ALL the money goes to the pastor or priest to use as he sees fit.

What you say is true for the Catholic church.. the Protestants, the Mormons.. 7th Day?? Jehovah's?? Maybe even the Jewish Synagogue.

BUT..

Where does Joel Olsteen, for example, send all his collected tithe?? And who says how much of it he gets?? Billy Graham?? Jesse Jackson?? Al Sharpton? How about the local Christian Study Center who has buses go to shut ins and nursing homes to bus people in for their 10%? This, just to name a few..

there are THOUSANDS of these 'private' churches, that answer to nobody, whose pay is determined by them.. (HEY, now we know where Congress got the idea)..

 

[2ndAmendment]

in SOME cases that is true.. but in MOST cases it is not.

Most of these "bible study" churches.. Christian centers.. etc. oh, and according ot our Baptist pastor, that Baptists.. the money stays put, there is no higher church, or higher authority, no national tithe collection center.. ALL the money goes to the pastor or priest to use as he sees fit.

What you say is true for the Catholic church.. the Protestants, the Mormons.. 7th Day?? Jehovah's?? Maybe even the Jewish Synagogue.

BUT..

Where does Joel Olsteen, for example, send all his collected tithe?? And who says how much of it he gets?? Billy Graham?? Jesse Jackson?? Al Sharpton? How about the local Christian Study Center who has buses go to shut ins and nursing homes to bus people in for their 10%? This, just to name a few..

there are THOUSANDS of these 'private' churches, that answer to nobody, whose pay is determined by them.. (HEY, now we know where Congress got the idea)..

Most cases? Please cite your sources. I would agree to some cases. The Joel Olsteen's and other independent churches may be part of the "some." I think you are probably wrong about Billy Graham since I am pretty sure the Graham ministries opens their books for scrutiny. Christian Children's Fund uses over 80% of funds received for benefit of actual children. Any good church will open their books to any member of the congregation.

That is where being a "good steward" comes in. We, as stewards, must examine where what we give is going and how it is being used. If it is going only to increase the life style of the pastor, then we need to find a different place to give back a portion of what God has given us.