The Book of Hebrews

[StoneThrower]

Yesterday when teaching Hebrews chapter 7 a young man asked what does the catholic church do with this do this, of course it was an inappropriate discussion to have, so I said we talk about it offline and then we never did.

The question remains, Hebrews 7 makes it very clear that with the new covenant and that the law and the priesthood of man has gone away, that they are both part of the same religious system and that if one goes, so must the other. This in turn ushers in the New Covenant and Christ role as being the only way to God, just like there was only one way to enter the tabernacle.

The book of Hebrews makes it very clear that we now have something better and now under the new covenant practicing the former is ritual and idolatrous. It also introduced eternal security to the believer, which under the old they didn't have.

The old never brought man into a perfect relationship with God, so since there remains no sacrifices or sacraments. Also in the New Testament we have no priest mentioned in the Christian church. A testament is the writing down of a covenant it’s a binding contract to death.

So my catholic friends how do you justify an office that no longer exist, or never did since not being Levities. You cant claim it as a gentile in the order of Melchizedek unless you take a blasphemous position of the role reserved for Christ alone, then to you would have an office is no where given in scripture with no role to fulfill.

 

[hotcoffee]

I'm sorry Stonethrower... but I don't understand where you are going with this.

Are you throwing stones?

I am so confused by your thread that reading it again and again didn't bring it into focus for me. I read commentaries a lot here lately. Please forgive me, but your commentary just doesn't make sense.

The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were frail, dying creatures, not able to save their own lives, much less could they save the souls of those who came to them. [from this link] He's talking about the priests of the temple that found fault with Jesus and would [could] not accept Him as the Son of God. Isn't he?

In a lot of ways those priests are like you and me. We can talk about the scriptures and we can try to teach, but we really can't have these conversations or teach unless we have God on our side.

IMHO.... Most of the priests, preachers, and teachers of today are doing much more than you and I. They are giving their life to the task.

I give up a few hours a day.... they give their whole day to it. I pray before I write... they are in constant prayer.

Who are you throwing stones at?

 

[StoneThrower]

I'm sorry Stonethrower... but I don't understand where you are going with this.

Are you throwing stones?

I am so confused by your thread that reading it again and again didn't bring it into focus for me. I read commentaries a lot here lately. Please forgive me, but your commentary just doesn't make sense.

The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were frail, dying creatures, not able to save their own lives, much less could they save the souls of those who came to them. [from this link] He's talking about the priests of the temple that found fault with Jesus and would [could] not accept Him as the Son of God. Isn't he?

In a lot of ways those priests are like you and me. We can talk about the scriptures and we can try to teach, but we really can't have these conversations or teach unless we have God on our side.

IMHO.... Most of the priests, preachers, and teachers of today are doing much more than you and I. They are giving their life to the task.

I give up a few hours a day.... they give their whole day to it. I pray before I write... they are in constant prayer.

Who are you throwing stones at?

I was asking a question, How do you justify the office of a priest in a covenant that no longer has a role for that, and in a New Testament church that scripture has never given us an example of because there is none.

 

[StoneThrower]

I'm sorry Stonethrower... but I don't understand where you are going with this.

Are you throwing stones?

See attached

 

[Radiant1]

The question remains, Hebrews 7 makes it very clear that with the new covenant and that the law and the priesthood of man has gone away, that they are both part of the same religious system and that if one goes, so must the other. This in turn ushers in the New Covenant and Christ role as being the only way to God, just like there was only one way to enter the tabernacle.

Hebrews 7 talks about the Levitical priesthood, from the Mosaic law, not a priesthood in general. If what you say were true then there would be no universal priesthood of belivers. However, I'm quite certain you believe in the universal priesthood of believers, yes? And that universal priesthood offers prayers, praise, gifts, and service? If so, does that mean you think there is another way to God other than through Christ or that you are a mediator between men and God?

The book of Hebrews makes it very clear that we now have something better and now under the new covenant practicing the former is ritual and idolatrous. It also introduced eternal security to the believer, which under the old they didn't have.

I would certainly agree with you that we have something better and are now under the New Covenant; however, Hebrews says nothing about ritual and idolatry as you state above. You really need to be careful about practising eisegesis instead of exogesis; these are your presuppositions and not in the text.

The old never brought man into a perfect relationship with God, so since there remains no sacrifices or sacraments. Also in the New Testament we have no priest mentioned in the Christian church. A testament is the writing down of a covenant it’s a binding contract to death.

Hebrews makes no mention at all of sacraments and only speaks of animal sacrifice in accordance with Mosaic law. I'm pretty sure you don't see Catholics sacrificing animals.

Btw, priest is in the NT. What do you think the word "elder" is in Greek? It's Presbuteros, which is presbyter in Latin, and priest in English. You're going to be REALLY hard put to prove that there are no priests (or elders if you will) in the NT with specific roles.

So my catholic friends how do you justify an office that no longer exist, or never did since not being Levities. You cant claim it as a gentile in the order of Melchizedek unless you take a blasphemous position of the role reserved for Christ alone, then to you would have an office is no where given in scripture with no role to fulfill.

You do realize there are other priesthoods in the bible aside from the Levites? At any rate, I should hope I don't have to inform you of the parellels between the OT and NT?

High Priest Jesus replaces the High Priest Moses.
The ministerial priesthood of the Christians replaces the misterial priesthood of the Levites.
The universal priesthood of Christian believers replaces the universal priesthood of Isreal.

I'm pretty sure you agree with the high priest and the universal priesthood, so why not the ministerial? Why would God replace some but not others? He didn't; He replaced all three.

 

[Bird Dog]

Yesterday when teaching Hebrews chapter 7 a young man asked what does the catholic church do with this do this, of course it was an inappropriate discussion to have, so I said we talk about it offline and then we never did.

How old was the young man and how did he come upon this knowledge of the Catholic Church?

My BS meter just went to overload

Your using a hypothetical conversation to start crap or as Hotcoffee stated to "throw stones"

At least be honest.

 

[Railroad]

Hebrews 7 talks about the Levitical priesthood, from the Mosaic law, not a priesthood in general. If what you say were true then there would be no universal priesthood of belivers. However, I'm quite certain you believe in the universal priesthood of believers, yes? And that universal priesthood offers prayers, praise, gifts, and service? If so, does that mean you think there is another way to God other than through Christ or that you are a mediator between men and God?
I would certainly agree with you that we have something better and are now under the New Covenant; however, Hebrews says nothing about ritual and idolatry as you state above. You really need to be careful about practising eisegesis instead of exogesis; these are your presuppositions and not in the text.
Hebrews makes no mention at all of sacraments and only speaks of animal sacrifice in accordance with Mosaic law. I'm pretty sure you don't see Catholics sacrificing animals.
Btw, priest is in the NT. What do you think the word "elder" is in Greek? It's Presbuteros, which is presbyter in Latin, and priest in English. You're going to be REALLY hard put to prove that there are no priests (or elders if you will) in the NT with specific roles.
You do realize there are other priesthoods in the bible aside from the Levites? At any rate, I should hope I don't have to inform you of the parellels between the OT and NT?
High Priest Jesus replaces the High Priest Moses.
The ministerial priesthood of the Christians replaces the misterial priesthood of the Levites.
The universal priesthood of Christian believers replaces the universal priesthood of Isreal.
I'm pretty sure you agree with the high priest and the universal priesthood, so why not the ministerial? Why would God replace some but not others? He didn't; He replaced all three.

Just for reference:

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. - Revelation 1:5, 6


Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth." - Revelation 5:8-10

I'm not saying I'm a Catholic, but I am referring to the fact that there most certainly are Priests - and we Christians are made Priests by Jesus Himself.

Also, as far as New Covenant/Old Covenant are concerned, I do take issue with completely disregarding the laws of the Old Testament. They are the measure by which we learn that we are in abject need of a Savior. And in light of recent discussions regarding reverence and regulations, I think there are some elements there which are apropos.

 

[Zguy28]

Just for reference:



I'm not saying I'm a Catholic, but I am referring to the fact that there most certainly are Priests - and we Christians are made Priests by Jesus Himself.

Also, as far as New Covenant/Old Covenant are concerned, I do take issue with completely disregarding the laws of the Old Testament. They are the measure by which we learn that we are in abject need of a Savior. And in light of recent discussions regarding reverence and regulations, I think there are some elements there which are apropos.

Except all followers of Christ are a "royal priesthood" as the apostle Peter writes in his letter and have direct access to the Lord via the High Priest Jesus. A far distance from an institutionalized priesthood of selected men who stand in-between the masses and the Lord Jesus.

Now, perhaps if the RCC called them pastors, which is a biblical role and moniker, people wouldn't get so torqued. Then it would just be an issue of the responsibilities of the role or office itself.

 

[Railroad]

Except all followers of Christ are a "royal priesthood" as the apostle Peter writes in his letter and have direct access to the Lord via the High Priest Jesus. A far distance from an institutionalized priesthood of selected men who stand in-between the masses and the Lord Jesus.

Now, perhaps if the RCC called them pastors, which is a biblical role and moniker, people wouldn't get so torqued. Then it would just be an issue of the responsibilities of the role or office itself.

I'm developing a pathological aversion to labels.

 

[Radiant1]

Except all followers of Christ are a "royal priesthood" as the apostle Peter writes in his letter and have direct access to the Lord via the High Priest Jesus. A far distance from an institutionalized priesthood of selected men who stand in-between the masses and the Lord Jesus.

Now, perhaps if the RCC called them pastors, which is a biblical role and moniker, people wouldn't get so torqued. Then it would just be an issue of the responsibilities of the role or office itself.

Yet another case of both/and. The priesthood is BOTH a body of believers AND ministerial, both with a high priest just as we see in the OT. And as you well know, the NT parallels the OT and the OT prefigures the NT.

We could call them pastors (or elders or presbyters) but who cares, that's semantic silliness.

 

[hotcoffee]

Yet another case of both/and. The priesthood is BOTH a body of believers AND ministerial, both with a high priest just as we see in the OT. And as you well know, the NT parallels the OT and the OT prefigures the NT.

We could call them pastors (or elders or presbyters) but who cares, that's semantic silliness.

Anyone's gotta see the pure logic in what you said.

There will be a High Priest when we get to Heaven too!

We just have to be careful to keep our leaders in the Gospels. If they are enjoying the examples of Christ and they are using His words to lead the congregation... then everything will be alright....



By the way.,.... I'm going to become a grandmother again tonight!

 

[StoneThrower]

Hebrews 7 talks about the Levitical priesthood, from the Mosaic law, not a priesthood in general. If what you say were true then there would be no universal priesthood of believers. However, I'm quite certain you believe in the universal priesthood of believers, yes? And that universal priesthood offers prayers, praise, gifts, and service? If so, does that mean you think there is another way to God other than through Christ or that you are a mediator between men and God?
.

It talks about a levetical priest hood, as well as a gentile priest and with Christ there is no need for any other.
There is one mediator between God and man it doesn't allow for a Vicar of Christ

however, Hebrews says nothing about ritual and idolatry as you state above. You really need to be careful about practicing eisegesis instead of exegesis; these are your presuppositions and not in the text.
.

After the new covenant was ushered, in returning back to dead works and temple sacrifice is both blasphemous and Idolatrous. Its putting faith in something other than Christ, thats not reading anything into the text just a basic understanding of it. Try doing some word studies. They left that when the became Christians and the writer of Hebrews is telling them not to return to that false system. This assumes you know who it was written to and the three groups of people its address.
Also besides it mentioning dead works twice, it says that he takes no pleasure in the blood of goats.

Hebrews makes no mention at all of sacraments and only speaks of animal sacrifice in accordance with Mosaic law. I'm pretty sure you don't see Catholics sacrificing animals.
.

No, I mentioned sacraments thats what priest do they administer ordances and say you need to be a priest in order to do so, something again that scripture dosent teach, and since there are none, there is no need for a priest. There is also no need to sacrifice Christ every time you take communion. which is much worse than animals.

Actually it does!
who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 Thats a bonus passage for you, not every mass.

Btw, priest is in the NT. What do you think the word "elder" is in Greek? It's Presbuteros, which is presbyter in Latin, and priest in English. You're going to be REALLY hard put to prove that there are no priests (or elders if you will) in the NT with specific roles.
.

An elder is a pastor, an overseer, or a bishop, not a priest, again there is no such office in a Christian church in the Old Testament or now, its a carryover from another false religion, Judaism. You will not a find a valid Greek translation that says priest.

I'm pretty sure you agree with the high priest and the universal priesthood, so why not the ministerial? Why would God replace some but not others? He didn't; He replaced all three.

He did away with all three, read Hebrews and take your time thinking through it.

 

[StoneThrower]

How old was the young man and how did he come upon this knowledge of the Catholic Church?

My BS meter just went to overload

Your using a hypothetical conversation to start crap or as Hotcoffee stated to "throw stones"

At least be honest.

He's 33, his dad is actually like a 13th degree knight of Columbus or something like that. Being raised in the hypocrisy growing up, when listening to the text the light bulb came on of the similarity between the two false religious systems.
Go look at the church website<http://www.redeemerbiblefellowship.com/events/> 3 of us have been teaching Hebrews for the last 7 weeks. By the way I went back and reposted the lesson for chapter 7 Here is the intro and chapter 1-2:4

 

[Bird Dog]

He's 33, his dad is actually like a 13th degree knight of Columbus or something like that. Being raised in the hypocrisy growing up, when listening to the text the light bulb came on of the similarity between the two false religious systems.

Again, your statements are suspect.

There is no 13th degree of the Knights of Columbus, or anything close.

The Knights of Columbus is a fraternal organization. It does not preach text of two false religions.

Where do you keep getting your "facts".

Just another Strip Mall preacher condemning the Catholic Church after climbing out of the gutter of life.

Glad you have been "saved", but leave us alone, we are OK.

 

[Radiant1]

By the way.,.... I'm going to become a grandmother again tonight!

Congratulations!

It talks about a levetical priest hood, as well as a gentile priest and with Christ there is no need for any other.
There is one mediator between God and man it doesn't allow for a Vicar of Christ

Then I suggest you stop praying for people and spreading the Gospel.

After the new covenant was ushered, in returning back to dead works and temple sacrifice is both blasphemous and Idolatrous. Its putting faith in something other than Christ, thats not reading anything into the text just a basic understanding of it. Try doing some word studies. They left that when the became Christians and the writer of Hebrews is telling them not to return to that false system. This assumes you know who it was written to and the three groups of people its address.
Also besides it mentioning dead works twice, it says that he takes no pleasure in the blood of goats.

Ok, and?

No, I mentioned sacraments thats what priest do they administer ordances and say you need to be a priest in order to do so, something again that scripture dosent teach, and since there are none, there is no need for a priest. There is also no need to sacrifice Christ every time you take communion. which is much worse than animals.

Christ's sacrifice is eternal and we are to "do this in memory" of Him. Seriously, do you think somehow we're bringing Jesus back as a human and killing him all over again or something?

Actually it does!
who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 Thats a bonus passage for you, not every mass.

That's right. Jesus died once and for all for our sins. See above.

An elder is a pastor, an overseer, or a bishop, not a priest, again there is no such office in a Christian church in the Old Testament or now, its a carryover from another false religion, Judaism. You will not a find a valid Greek translation that says priest.

Of course not because priest is the English translation of the Greek!

In addition, I'll take this opportunity to tell you that Judaism is not a false religion. God made a new covenant, that doesn't mean He withdrew the old. God doesn't go back on his promises. Besides, JESUS WAS A JEW!

He did away with all three, read Hebrews and take your time thinking through it.

Are you sure?? Even Hebrews 7 says Jesus is the High Priest, so I don't think He "did away" with any of them.

Lord have mercy on you for being so dumb, and may He have mercy on me for being amused by it! Seriously, I realize you won't admit your error, but don't you think it better to just sit down and shut up instead of making a fool of yourself? And to think you're teaching people. God help us all.

 

[StoneThrower]

Congratulations!



Then I suggest you stop praying for people and spreading the Gospel.



Ok, and?
.

?????? Why would you suggest violating what the Lord commands us to do, and go against scripture?

Christ's sacrifice is eternal and we are to "do this in memory" of Him. Seriously, do you think somehow we're bringing Jesus back as a human and killing him all over again or something?
.

No but you do! From the RC catechism
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross.

Have you read your catechism? It’s says that you believe in transubstantiation that through hocus pocus of the priest, that the elements physically turn into the body and blood of Christ.

Of course not because priest is the English translation of the Greek!
.

No its not! That’s what I just got done telling, you it’s not the English translation.
You make light of all this, and try to make others look nutty but this is what your church teaches. It’s sad, but even more sad that you put your trust in this teaching.

In addition, I'll take this opportunity to tell you that Judaism is not a false religion. God made a new covenant, that doesn't mean He withdrew the old. God doesn't go back on his promises. Besides, JESUS WAS A JEW!
.

Wow you are very confused. Judaism is a works righteous false religion like yours, and if they don’t repent and put their faith and trust in Christ alone for their salvation they will go to Hell with you.
In the end God will save one third of the Jews his elect, after he takes out his wrath on the other two thirds wiping them off the face of the earth that’s one of Gods promises too!

Hebrews tells you that (the one religious system) has to go away. Gods promise do not change, but your mixing stuff up and confusing yourself. Perhaps your husband can help teach you during your daily devotional time together, it’s really his job as spiritual leader of the home, not mine.

Your last comments and overall attitude are very Christ like, you should be very proud of yourself!

 

[Radiant1]

Ok, I'm going to try really hard to be gentle and spell things out for you. :sigh:

?????? Why would you suggest violating what the Lord commands us to do, and go against scripture?

If you pray for someone else and/or spread the Gospel, then you are mediating. You are mediating between man and Christ. This is the same thing a priest does in which you take umbrage (although somehow pastors are ok as long as they aren't called priests, which is silly semantics).

No but you do! From the RC catechism
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross.

Have you read your catechism? It’s says that you believe in transubstantiation that through hocus pocus of the priest, that the elements physically turn into the body and blood of Christ.

I'm well versed in the catechism, thank you. The Mass RE-presents the one sacrifice on the cross. You know, the "take this bread, eat it; take this cup, drink from it; do this in memory of me" thing. In addition, transubstantiation is Christ's spiritual body, not his human body; as in after his resurrection and ascension, not before. Partaking of Christ as He commanded is spiritually nourishing. I think you could use such spiritual nourishment.

No its not! That’s what I just got done telling, you it’s not the English translation.
You make light of all this, and try to make others look nutty but this is what your church teaches. It’s sad, but even more sad that you put your trust in this teaching.

Get educated please before YOU continue to teach others. The book of Hebrews was written in Greek. This is where you're kind of looking, well, foolish. Read both links about the etymology of the words priest and presbyter. (It's ok, they're short and to the point.)

Online Etymology Dictionary
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon :: G4245

Wow you are very confused. Judaism is a works righteous false religion like yours, and if they don’t repent and put their faith and trust in Christ alone for their salvation they will go to Hell with you.
In the end God will save one third of the Jews his elect, after he takes out his wrath on the other two thirds wiping them off the face of the earth that’s one of Gods promises too!

Wait a minute. If Judaism is a false religion and if the Jews don't repent and put their faith and trust in Christ, then why would God save 1/3 of them anyway?

Hebrews tells you that (the one religious system) has to go away. Gods promise do not change, but your mixing stuff up and confusing yourself!

It may tell you that, but it doesn't tell me that. It tells me that there is something better than the law (and indeed there is). If God's promises do not change, then how is that the Jews suddenly have a false religion and will go to hell?

Btw, the only thing the man in my life tells me is to stop laughing at people like you only because ignorant people can't help being ignorant. I do, however, disagree with him on whether some people can help themselves from being ignorant.

 

[StoneThrower]

If you pray for someone else and/or spread the Gospel, then you are mediating. You are mediating between man and Christ. This is the same thing a priest does in which you take umbrage (although somehow pastors are OK as long as they aren't called priests, which is silly semantics).:

Again scripture says there is no mediator between God and man except Jesus Christ, its called petitioning God when you pray for someone but your not interceding for sin which is what a priest does, remember your little guy in the box, Forgive me father for I have sinned as if he could.

I'm well versed in the catechism, thank you. The Mass RE-presents the one sacrifice on the cross. You know, the "take this bread, eat it; take this cup, drink from it; do this in memory of me" thing. In addition, transubstantiation is Christ's spiritual body, not his human body; as in after his resurrection and ascension, not before. Partaking of Christ as He commanded is spiritually nourishing. I think you could use such spiritual nourishment.

Yes RE-presents a do ever, not represents. If what you say is true than why the need to try to turn it into his actual blood. why does it need to be done by a priest. Great I am glad to hear its no longer a sacrament and its now a symbolic ordnance, better tell the church though as there website still considers it a sacrament, one of seven that you need to get to heaven.

Get educated please before YOU continue to teach others. The book of Hebrews was written in Greek. This is where you're kind of looking, well, foolish. Read both links about the etymology of the words priest and presbyter. (It's ok, they're short and to the point.)

Online Etymology Dictionary
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon :: G4245

.

Have you considered stand up comedy? I really think your much better suited for it. Your blue letter reference says nothing about priest being a translation for presbuteros.
Strong's NEVER uses G4245 for priest anywhere in scripture 3548 is the most common along with 3550,3547,2406, 2420,749,2405, 2407,2409 it is however the right # for presbuteros its just never used as priest ever! Nice try though.
πρεσβύτερος
presbuteros
pres-boo'-ter-os
Comparative of πρέσβυς presbus (elderly); older; as noun, a senior; specifically an Israelite Sanhedrist (also figuratively, member of the celestial council) or Christian “presbyter”: - elder (-est), old.

Wait a minute. If Judaism is a false religion and if the Jews don't repent and put their faith and trust in Christ, then why would God save 1/3 of them anyway?
.

Because of a covenant promise and because they are ELECT and for no other reason.

It may tell you that, but it doesn't tell me that. It tells me that there is something better than the law (and indeed there is). If God's promises do not change, then how is that the Jews suddenly have a false religion and will go to hell?
.

Not just the law, but the religious system if you read the Hebrews 7 attachment it explains it. and I am not an antinomian either the moral law still applies as railroad said, to act as a school master and show sinners they need a savior. You can say all of the law was done away with but if its reiterated in the new covenant its still binding and it is all but the sabbath.
The Jews have no forgiveness of sin without Christ. Especially now not being able to do the sacrifices that they think they are still under. At the end those that are Elect will see Jesus for who he really is and morn their blindness. They may be Gods chosen people but they don't all get a free ride because of it Revelation is quite clear on that.

BTW, the only thing the man in my life tells me is to stop laughing at people like you only because ignorant people can't help being ignorant. I do, however, disagree with him on whether some people can help themselves from being ignorant.

Just remember that God resist the proud and gives grace to the humble!
Your attempt at belittling comments, only elevates you in your own eyes, its a logical fallacies called an Ad Hominem. Your actually quiet found of using a variety of them in your arguments, and oh thats Latin

Your well meaning and I would expect you to defend your church, but you can be sincere, and sincerely wrong at the same time. A classic example of why women aren't allowed to teach other than children or other women, and then they should have a formal education before being in trusted in that capacity for this very reason.

 

[Radiant1]

Again scripture says there is no mediator between God and man except Jesus Christ, its called petitioning God when you pray for someone but your not interceding for sin which is what a priest does, remember your little guy in the box, Forgive me father for I have sinned as if he could.

Yes, Christ is the mediator to God the Father. Christians are mediators to Christ. You can call it petitioning if you want, it all means the same thing and you're playing a silly semantic game again.

Yes RE-presents a do ever, not represents. If what you say is true than why the need to try to turn it into his actual blood. why does it need to be done by a priest. Great I am glad to hear its no longer a sacrament and its now a symbolic ordnance, better tell the church though as there website still considers it a sacrament, one of seven that you need to get to heaven.

Are you even aware of what sacrament means? It's obvious you're not. I mean, you're even having a hard time with "priest".

Have you considered stand up comedy? I really think your much better suited for it. Your blue letter reference says nothing about priest being a translation for presbuteros.
Strong's NEVER uses G4245 for priest anywhere in scripture 3548 is the most common along with 3550,3547,2406, 2420,749,2405, 2407,2409 it is however the right # for presbuteros its just never used as priest ever! Nice try though.
πρεσβύτερος
presbuteros
pres-boo'-ter-os
Comparative of πρέσβυς presbus (elderly); older; as noun, a senior; specifically an Israelite Sanhedrist (also figuratively, member of the celestial council) or Christian “presbyter”: - elder (-est), old.

You didn't read both links. I told you it was ok, it was simple. Here, I'll post the pertinent part for you:

priest (n.) Old English preost probably shortened from the older Germanic form represented by Old Saxon and Old High German prestar, Old Frisian prestere, all from Vulgar Latin *prester "priest," from Late Latin presbyter "presbyter, elder," from Greek presbyteros (see Presbyterian).

You do realize that presbuteros is an adjective, right? At any rate, they all have the same root word. That ought to tell you something don't you think?

Because of a covenant promise and because they are ELECT and for no other reason.

Because of a covenant promise, EXACTLY! God is no liar.

Speaking of elect, you didn't answer my earlier question to you. Do you fancy yourself one of the elect?

Not just the law, but the religious system if you read the Hebrews 7 attachment it explains it. and I am not an antinomian either the moral law still applies as railroad said, to act as a school master and show sinners they need a savior. You can say all of the law was done away with but if its reiterated in the new covenant its still binding and it is all but the sabbath.

After being witness to your eisegesis I didn't bother with your attachment. I don't need to, I'll let scripture speak for itself.

The Jews have no forgiveness of sin without Christ. Especially now not being able to do the sacrifices that they think they are still under. At the end those that are Elect will see Jesus for who he really is and morn their blindness. They may be Gods chosen people but they don't all get a free ride because of it Revelation is quite clear on that.

Nobody has forgiveness of sin without Christ, but that doesn't change the fact that God has a covenant with the Jewish people. It is still by His mercy that they can be saved, just as with you and I. And, nobody gets a free ride, that includes you btw.

Just remember that God resist the proud and gives grace to the humble!
Your attempt at belittling comments, only elevates you in your own eyes, its a logical fallacies called an Ad Hominem. Your actually quiet found of using a variety of them in your arguments, and oh thats Latin

Your well meaning and I would expect you to defend your church, but you can be sincere, and sincerely wrong at the same time. A classic example of why women aren't allowed to teach other than children or other women, and then they should have a formal education before being in trusted in that capacity for this very reason.

Are you feeling put out because I'm a female? If you wish, go ahead and have your last word. I'm confident in what I've written in this thread is sensible to those with half a brain. I mean, we wouldn't want a girl to continue belittling you now would we?

Oh btw, I'm fully and formally educated in catechesis. Even if I weren't you could still learn something from me, all it takes is to remove yourself of your pride.

 

[hotcoffee]

Why in the world are you reading the blue letter bible?

Don't you have enough to learn in the NIV or American Standard without manipulating word meanings and confusing everyone?

Speaking of manipulating word meanings and confusing everyone.... Let's try a little experiment....

What if....

What if you had a vision... an angel appears to you in this vision and says you have been given the gift of translation. You receive a manuscript written in an ancient language that you would never understand under normal circumstances.

But these are not normal circumstances... God Himself has given you the skills to translate the manuscript into today's language. The angel warns you though that you should guard your work because He doesn't want others to see it until the time is right.

So, when the angel has left, you get a bowl of cornflakes and a glass of juice and you start to work. Later in that very morning you have to relieve yourself so you go to the bathroom. When you get back, the work is gone. The manuscript is still there.... but the work is gone.

You think.... well bummer... I'll have to start all over again....

Are you right? Is it as simple as starting over again? After all, an angel brought you the news and you have a Gift from God... right?



Not hijacking the thread... I'll make a point in a few posts....