The Environment - where do you stand?

[sleuth]

Knowing that this is a conservative board, I can understand that the environment issues really don't get much sympathy from most here. But what I want to know is how important is environmental protection to you?

A movie will be coming out soon - "The Day After Tomorrow" - which environmentalists will be using to highlight their cause (link), of which I for one cross party lines and am sympathetic.

A few years ago, I remember reading something about the great ocean current that basically encircles the earth, or perhaps I saw it on Discovery, and which scientists believe is strongly tied to our weather. It was theorized that it was slowing down due to a slow increase in temperature over the last few decades - something to do with the temperatures of the water and the density slowing the current. They also theorized that if it continued to slow at the present rate, we could be plunged into an ice age within the next 25-50 years. I don't know about you... but this concerns me.

I've seen on this forum many examples of where people give rat's azzes about some endangered tree-frog in the jungle as a reason to stop development. I ask the question of whether you believe that the continued development of human civilization is affecting the environment in which we live, and whether you think the time will come in the not so distant future that "The Day After Tomorrow" could become all too real.

Let's discuss.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by kwillia
it probably won't be in our lifetime so that is why people don't put it high up on the list of things they are worried about.

So why do you choose to ignore the possibilities when many of the latest studies conclude that such drastic changes could happen in your lifetime, or your children's lifetime?

 

[justhangn]

Save the world........

pray for human extinction.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by sleuth
So why do you choose to ignore the possibilities when many of the latest studies conclude that such drastic changes could happen in your lifetime, or your children's lifetime?

Those studies/theories started coming out in the time of my great-grandparents. St. Paul was predicting the end of the world in the first century AD. People have been saying the end of the world is near since Adam and Eve.

 

[vraiblonde]

The eco-nutties have been crying doom for as long as I can remember. I notice that we're still here. Some of them have gone so far as to say that we (you and I) will see an ice age in our lives, which is complete and utter bullsh*t. To hell with them - idiots.

Sleuth, for every "scientist" that says Armageddon is at hand, there are just as many that say it's a crock of sh*t.

But I don't see the big deal about this movie - how is it any different than any other natural disaster flick? The libs got all crazy over The Passion, now I guess it's the conservatives' turn to be nutty. :shrug:

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by sleuth
A few years ago, I remember reading something about the great ocean current that basically encircles the earth, or perhaps I saw it on Discovery, and which scientists believe is strongly tied to our weather. It was theorized that it was slowing down due to a slow increase in temperature over the last few decades - something to do with the temperatures of the water and the density slowing the current. They also theorized that if it continued to slow at the present rate, we could be plunged into an ice age within the next 25-50 years. I don't know about you... but this concerns me.

That's just it Sleuth, it's all "theory". Anyone remember back in the 70's when all the hype was we were going into an ice age due to our unfriendly environmental habits? Now it's global warming.

All you have to do is watch the nightly weather forecast to figure out that it's all hysterical and that weather patterns fluctuate from year to year.

I'm all for common sense conservation, like not dumping a gazillion tons of chemicals into the bay. :shrug: I just don't buy in to all the enviro-nazi hype.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by kwillia
What are you doing for your part...

Namely, I recycle. I've also planted a few trees. And I dispose of motor oil properly and do my best to keep my vehicle maintained. I plan on installing an automated thermostat in the house this summer. And perhaps insulation in the attic by the end of the year.

Little things, sure, but I do what I can.

And if they'd come out with a fuel-efficient pick-up, I'd be one of the people most likely to buy it.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Dymphna
Those studies/theories started coming out in the time of my great-grandparents. St. Paul was predicting the end of the world in the first century AD. People have been saying the end of the world is near since Adam and Eve.

Never in the history of humanity have we had as much scientific data and technology to make these predictions as we do now. Do you honestly think that these people are participating in "junk science" and that basically anything they say you can throw out the window?

Like Christy, I'm for common sense conservation -that's what I try to do, and yeah, I'm not too comfy with the whole enviro-nazi approach, but the simple truth is that the earth as a whole is a system. And when one part of the system, whether it be a tree-frog in Albania or a type of red ant in Ecuador, is affected, it sets off a chain reaction. It's co-evolution.

And it's speeding up.

 

[sleuth]

Re: Re: The Environment - where do you stand?

Originally posted by Christy
Anyone remember back in the 70's when all the hype was we were going into an ice age due to our unfriendly environmental habits? Now it's global warming.

Isn't global warming supposed to be caused by unfriendly environmental habits? They've basically been saying the same thing all along.

I went to a falconry show over the weekend, and got to see a golden eagle fly and perform. It was amazing.

And it was really sad to find out how few of these beautiful birds lived in the wild anymore. Estimated to be under 10,000 I think it was.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by kwillia
IMHO, it's too late for "common sense conservation" to do anything but slightly slow down the inevitable. It would take major change and that will never happen.

I really believe that if alternative-fuel cars were to take over the market, it could have a profound effect on pollution and global warming in a relatively short period.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by sleuth
It's co-evolution.

And it's also the natural order of things.

My favorite story is the Exxon-Valdez one: big spill, eco-nutties losing their minds, pics of oil-soaked birds everywhere. PREPARE FOR ARMAGEDDON!!!! And the REAL result of this environmental "catastrophe"?

http://www.valdezscience.com/

Mother Nature has a way of correcting and protecting herself, regardless of what some tree hugger thinks. Certain species naturally become extinct to make way for other life forms (dinosaurs, for example). Other species are stronger and they adapt rather than die out. It's just nature and us piddly humans have no control over it, even though we are arrogant enough to think we're the be-all, end-all of the world.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by sleuth
Do you honestly think that these people are participating in "junk science"

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Like Christy said, one decade, they scream about the new Ice Age and 10-15 years later, it's global warming. They don't know wtf they are talking about.

Yes, there are environmental problems. Some very obvious, like direct pollution of our water sources. But most of the long term stuff, no one has figured out what it means, good or bad.

A year or so ago there was all this big hoopla about how our generation and our children have high levels of teflon in our blood stream. It's in our carpets and in our pans and we soak it up in our skin and our food. But what does that mean?? Maybe it means plaque can't build up in our arteries because they are now non-stick and it will cause a decline in heart disease. :shrug:

Yes, we are putting crap in the air, yes it's probably safer if we don't, but who's to say that the ice-age theorists and the global warming theorists don't both have a kernal of truth? Maybe certain chemicals in the air cause a cooling effect and others cause a warming effect and they cancel each other out? Maybe the thinning of the ozone layer is a natural phenomonon that is nature's way of preventing an ice-age.:shrug:

Nobody knows and nobody can prove anything. They are just fear-mongers promoting their own agenda.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Dymphna
They are just fear-mongers promoting their own agenda.

For real. Plus that, the nutties want us to go back to pre-20th century living habits....when people had a much shorter life expectancy.

Plus THAT, the biggest screamers about global warming (the Hollyweirds) own SUVs, several big houses and private jets. So what does THAT tell you?

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Mother Nature has a way of correcting and protecting herself, regardless of what some tree hugger thinks. Certain species naturally become extinct to make way for other life forms (dinosaurs, for example). Other species are stronger and they adapt rather than die out. It's just nature and us piddly humans have no control over it, even though we are arrogant enough to think we're the be-all, end-all of the world.

I don't think that it would be the end of the world, but I could see the end of the human race. The world would go on just like it always has, and life will come and go as it has throughout history, until our sun turns into a red giant and incinerates it.

IMO, as human beings, as the most intelligent (to our knowledge, ironically) lifeforms to have walked this earth, we have a responsibility to put off our extinction as long as possible. It's fighting for our survival, and it's interesting that along with our intelligence, we have lost some of our survival instinct to be replaced with "let someone else worry about it".

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Dymphna
Yes, we are putting crap in the air, yes it's probably safer if we don't, but who's to say that the ice-age theorists and the global warming theorists don't both have a kernal of truth? Maybe certain chemicals in the air cause a cooling effect and others cause a warming effect and they cancel each other out? Maybe the thinning of the ozone layer is a natural phenomonon that is nature's way of preventing an ice-age.:shrug:

Don't global warming and ice-age theorists subscribe to the same theory?

I thought the idea was that the earth would continue to warm until the polar caps melted, thus flooding the oceans, drastically changing the salinity of the water, which would lead to a change in weather patterns that would provide sudden drastic freezing.

 

[Christy]

Re: Re: Re: The Environment - where do you stand?

Originally posted by sleuth
Isn't global warming supposed to be caused by unfriendly environmental habits? They've basically been saying the same thing all along.

I went to a falconry show over the weekend, and got to see a golden eagle fly and perform. It was amazing.

And it was really sad to find out how few of these beautiful birds lived in the wild anymore. Estimated to be under 10,000 I think it was.

Sleuth, I think that golden eagle took a huge crap on your brain. It is ALL junk science, and they have yet to come up with any "theory" that someone else can't poke holes in the size of the ozone layer.

I'm fully in agreement with Vrai (shocker ), nature sorts itself out. Every couple hundred years, forests burn down despite the best efforts of your tree-hugging hippies. Some bodies of water dry up, while other's are formed. Our best hope for survival is to go with the flow. Adapt to Nature's changes. If it gets colder, buy more clothes, if it gets hotter, up your dose of sunscreen. :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by sleuth
I don't think that it would be the end of the world, but I could see the end of the human race.

If that's the natural order of things, that's the way it will be and there's nothing you can do about it. You can conserve and live off the land, then some meteor comes up and wipes you out anyway.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by sleuth
Don't global warming and ice-age theorists subscribe to the same theory?

I thought the idea was that the earth would continue to warm until the polar caps melted, thus flooding the oceans, drastically changing the salinity of the water, which would lead to a change in weather patterns that would provide sudden drastic freezing.

Ok, why would reduced salinity of the water cause drastic freezing? Can you find a source that can present this argument logically with scientific backing? I have yet to see one.

When I was younger, I heard all these arguments. I was even employed one summer to gain grassroots support (ie. money) for an environmental PAC. But I started questioning statments like this and no one could give me answers that make sense. As a result, I don't keep track of the arguments anymore, but if they've discovered logic in the last 15 years, I haven't heard that either.

 

[darkriver4362]

Hey sleuth, that new Nissan Titan is supposed to be pretty easy on the gas for a pickup.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by kwillia
Here ya go...

I know that, but it still needs to be 32F/0C degrees to freeze. The cause of the reduced salinity would be too much heat in the first place. Will the air temp suddenly drop? And as the water refreezes, the salt doesn't and the salinity of the remaining water goes up and we are back where we started.