The Horrific Story That Should Make Us Think Twice Before Giving Psychiatric Drugs To Kids

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Her parents say that Maddie came home from school that day in fine spirits, seemingly excited about a trip to Chick-fil-A. But when Maddie’s mother went to her room to tell her it was time to go, she found the child hanging in the closet. One cannot even begin to contemplate the horror of such a scene.

It turns out Maddie was often bullied in school. She had been subjected to an especially vicious round of bullying on that particular day, according to one of her friends. No doubt, this fact likely has something to do with the suicide. But her family suspects that something else might have also played a role: ADHD medication. Maddie’s stepfather reports that she had just recently begun taking a new drug for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. One of the drug’s listed side effects is “suicidal thoughts.”

We will never know for sure what was going on inside Maddie’s mind that day, but was it a coincidence that she started taking medicine that causes suicidal thoughts right before she committed suicide? Her parents don't think so, and who can argue with them? The suicide of a young child certainly seems, intuitively, like something that must be caused by an outside force, a foreign agent of some kind. Children that age shouldn’t have the idea of suicide anywhere on their radar. They shouldn’t even know what it is. Of course it is a terrible shock for anyone to take their own life. But a nine-year-old? How is such a thing possible?


WALSH: The Horrific Story That Should Make Us Think Twice Before Giving Psychiatric Drugs To Kids


Who in their right mind is giving Psychoactive Drugs to a 9 yr old - Stupid Parents and Stupid doctors
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Every lazy ass who would rather drug their kid than parent them.
That's an over-generalization that I'd attribute to ignorance, but I don't want to be outright insulting.

My son was born with brain damage where his senses are constantly overloading him. He can feel every rib on
his socks, every tick on every clock, every smell in the room, every movement near him - and he lacks the ability you and
I possess to tune it out. A normal day without medication is like walking through a nightmare at 100 decibels.

The medication turns it off.

His disability also makes it hard for him to express things, since part of his brain has never developed.
Imagine being frustrated or sad or in emotional pain - and you can't explain it to anyone.
I have learned how to talk to him but a lot of people have no idea what is going on in his head.

I think people are under the impression that medication "stupefies" kids - actually ADD medication
is usually a stimulant, but what it does is makes sure there is balance between input - and receptors.

We have to go through a constant balance of what works for him, because he grows and adapts.

I realize people WANT to blame the medication - but lots of perfectly normal kids have committed
suicide because of bullying. Maybe they ought to start with that.
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
That's an over-generalization that I'd attribute to ignorance, but I don't want to be outright insulting.

My son was born with brain damage where his senses are constantly overloading him. He can feel every rib on
his socks, every tick on every clock, every smell in the room, every movement near him - and he lacks the ability you and
I possess to tune it out. A normal day without medication is like walking through a nightmare at 100 decibels.

The medication turns it off.

His disability also makes it hard for him to express things, since part of his brain has never developed.
Imagine being frustrated or sad or in emotional pain - and you can't explain it to anyone.
I have learned how to talk to him but a lot of people have no idea what is going on in his head.

I think people are under the impression that medication "stupefies" kids - actually ADD medication
is usually a stimulant, but what it does is makes sure there is balance between input - and receptors.

We have to go through a constant balance of what works for him, because he grows and adapts.

I realize people WANT to blame the medication - but lots of perfectly normal kids have committed
suicide because of bullying. Maybe they ought to start with that.
Spot on.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
That's an over-generalization that I'd attribute to ignorance, but I don't want to be outright insulting.

My son was born with brain damage where his senses are constantly overloading him. He can feel every rib on
his socks, every tick on every clock, every smell in the room, every movement near him - and he lacks the ability you and
I possess to tune it out. A normal day without medication is like walking through a nightmare at 100 decibels.

The medication turns it off.

His disability also makes it hard for him to express things, since part of his brain has never developed.
Imagine being frustrated or sad or in emotional pain - and you can't explain it to anyone.
I have learned how to talk to him but a lot of people have no idea what is going on in his head.

I think people are under the impression that medication "stupefies" kids - actually ADD medication
is usually a stimulant, but what it does is makes sure there is balance between input - and receptors.

We have to go through a constant balance of what works for him, because he grows and adapts.

I realize people WANT to blame the medication - but lots of perfectly normal kids have committed
suicide because of bullying. Maybe they ought to start with that.
I'm surprised at you. I don't believe I said that *no* child legitimately needs medication.

Do you or do you not agree that there are many children who have no clinical reason to be on these medications, and are only "diagnosed" because they have a weird Munchausen Mommy or teacher who doesn't want to discipline and would rather lull the kid with drugs? Let's start there. But before you answer, be aware that I still have my sources from the paper I wrote on this topic.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
That's an over-generalization that I'd attribute to ignorance, but I don't want to be outright insulting.

My son was born with brain damage where his senses are constantly overloading him. He can feel every rib on
his socks, every tick on every clock, every smell in the room, every movement near him - and he lacks the ability you and
I possess to tune it out. A normal day without medication is like walking through a nightmare at 100 decibels.

The medication turns it off.

His disability also makes it hard for him to express things, since part of his brain has never developed.
Imagine being frustrated or sad or in emotional pain - and you can't explain it to anyone.
I have learned how to talk to him but a lot of people have no idea what is going on in his head.

I think people are under the impression that medication "stupefies" kids - actually ADD medication
is usually a stimulant, but what it does is makes sure there is balance between input - and receptors.

We have to go through a constant balance of what works for him, because he grows and adapts.

I realize people WANT to blame the medication - but lots of perfectly normal kids have committed
suicide because of bullying. Maybe they ought to start with that.
I have read your story over time here about your children, and you have taken on a lot, and come across as very caring as a parent. You go, Sam. I don’t need to know you irl. It is obvious you are an awesome person. But, it would be great if we met someday. :smile:
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised at you. I don't believe I said that *no* child legitimately needs medication.

Do you or do you not agree that there are many children who have no clinical reason to be on these medications, and are only "diagnosed" because they have a weird Munchausen Mommy or teacher who doesn't want to discipline and would rather lull the kid with drugs? Let's start there. But before you answer, be aware that I still have my sources from the paper I wrote on this topic.
No, you didn't say that. Actually, you put it on the parents, for wanting to drug their kids rather than "parent" them.
I don't know of a parent who does that. I do know of many who after 10-15 years of dealing with a violent budding
psychopath are in a panic because they have a kid who isn't having a tantrum, but hours upon hours of seemingly
permanent rage.

Clearly "parenting" isn't enough and certainly for many, completely futile. I've participated regularly in forums and
discussion groups for FASD, and the stories would curl your hair. I've seen parents who can't deal with selfish kids
that they've spoiled - but I've seen kids who torture pets and molest their siblings who don't respond to punishment
no matter how severe, because their brain doesn't grasp consequences for behavior. They can touch a hot stove
IMMEDIATELY after being burned by one. My son's ISN'T that bad, but what his sisters learn in minutes can take him
years, if at all.

I can certainly say that lulling kids with drugs is one thing most of the drugs do NOT do. It does not stupefy them.
They do not calm down because they're given the equivalent of marijuana or dope. They're actually stimulants.
If you or I took them, it'd be like taking massive caffeine. They are controlled substances that have been used to
treat cocaine and meth addiction.

I don't know of any pediatrician worth their salt who just hands out ADD medication like candy. My son must see
the doctor every four weeks, and one of his pediatricians did require psychiatric treatment which I decided had no
effect. I suspect there are those out there - but this is painting them all with the same brush.

I don't mean to provoke - actually, I just don't want the story to be out there that the bulk of kids are being
lulled by drugs any more than I want a narrative of cops shooting people of color or priests molesting boys as
though that's the way it is for all of them. I just read a HuffPo piece used in my son's English class which gives a
distorted view of adoption because in liberal circles, it's trendy to do so. I'm considering writing the school - I've
already seen material ridiculing those who dispute climate change.

My own brother - at the age of nine, same age - ran away from home because like myself, he was getting his ass
kicked regularly at school. He didn't tell anyone, stole money from my Dad, conned a cabbie into a free ride to
the airport, persuaded the woman at the ticket counter to sell him a ticket - and flew to Chicago (from PA).
Were it not for a refused collect call to a friend - we might never have found him again. Later in life, he would develop
rheumatoid arthritis and use a wheelchair and be the target of bullying that would lead him to attempt suicide
and at one point, burn down our house. And he had the same parenting I had. I would never minimize the effect of
bullying, at any age. Seen it.
 

terbear1225

Well-Known Member
That's an over-generalization that I'd attribute to ignorance, but I don't want to be outright insulting.

My son was born with brain damage where his senses are constantly overloading him. He can feel every rib on
his socks, every tick on every clock, every smell in the room, every movement near him - and he lacks the ability you and
I possess to tune it out. A normal day without medication is like walking through a nightmare at 100 decibels.

The medication turns it off.

His disability also makes it hard for him to express things, since part of his brain has never developed.
Imagine being frustrated or sad or in emotional pain - and you can't explain it to anyone.
I have learned how to talk to him but a lot of people have no idea what is going on in his head.

I think people are under the impression that medication "stupefies" kids - actually ADD medication
is usually a stimulant, but what it does is makes sure there is balance between input - and receptors.

We have to go through a constant balance of what works for him, because he grows and adapts.

I realize people WANT to blame the medication - but lots of perfectly normal kids have committed
suicide because of bullying. Maybe they ought to start with that.
Thank you for posting this. Yes, I am sure there are parents who have turned to medication that didnt need to. And there may be doctors that are willing to facilitate that. I dont think those numbers are nearly as high as some seem to think and it bothers me that the prevailing attitude for so many seems to be that ADHD is a myth and that only “lazy parents” would medicate their kids.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for me to give my dd medicine to help her regulate her allergies but I must constantly defend the decision to give my ds medication to help regulate ADHD (before you ask or make assumptions, yes, we spent YEARS working with various doctors and therapists to help address the condition without medication. It wasnt enough)
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting this. Yes, I am sure there are parents who have turned to medication that didnt need to. And there may be doctors that are willing to facilitate that. I dont think those numbers are nearly as high as some seem to think and it bothers me that the prevailing attitude for so many seems to be that ADHD is a myth and that only “lazy parents” would medicate their kids.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for me to give my dd medicine to help her regulate her allergies but I must constantly defend the decision to give my ds medication to help regulate ADHD (before you ask or make assumptions, yes, we spent YEARS working with various doctors and therapists to help address the condition without medication. It wasnt enough)
Potty training took *years*. I don't even want to mention how many specialists we saw to help him, or how many techniques or teachers and so forth
who just gave up.

And I do use other things outside of medication, such as teaching him to meditate, self-control techniques and so forth.
He tends to refer to his inner voice as "my brain" as though it was a separate person, as in "my brain said this" and we have
discussed at length how to deal with "my brain". I give him supplements to improve his memory, because if he can't use his
judgment center, he can substitute some of its function with lots of memory. For example, he may not know WHY he should
do something in a social situation, but he has been taught to do such and such a thing anyway.

We've tried different kinds of aroma therapy, to calm him when he gets out of control and the other techniques - and/or punishment -
aren't working. We're trying to alter his diet more than most people do, because there's unproven ideas out there that suggest
gut bacteria can influence behavior of kids with FASD. Haven't tried the casein-free diet, because I am skeptical.

Suffice it to say that I still think I'm a somewhat lazy parent compared to others. I would like my son to make Eagle - I know of
at least one man whose son DID make it to Eagle, and his disabilities were at least as debilitating if not more so. I do know there
are parents who are just amazing. I think the bad ones for some of these kids are rare.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
.... or teacher who doesn't want to discipline and would rather lull the kid with drugs?


Yep if a child was blonde hair and blue eyed and a discipline problem, that child MUST have ADHD, and the teachers damn near demanded a child be put in drugs
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Yep if a child was blonde hair and blue eyed and a discipline problem, that child MUST have ADHD, and the teachers damn near demanded a child be put in drugs
(sigh)

That would be almost every child adopted from Russia, where FASD is as common as water.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
I'm gonna' chime in here. Sam, I think you're defending a position that doesn't need to be defended. There are no doubt children who need to be medicated for one reason, or another. These are not the kids that vrai is referring to. You're a smart man, and I have no doubt you have read reports regarding the hazards of medicating children with something they don't need, especially in regards to psychotropic drugs. There are many parents who are more than happy to go along with the advice of teachers and doctors, just to get their kids to settle down. I've had my own experiences with them.

When my sister was 7 years old, and ADHD was a new thing (they just called it hyperactive back then), my parents agreed to put her on Ritalin. I watched her go from a bright, active little girl, to one who zoned out on the couch. She didn't even need a tv to zone out to. She just zoned. To this day, she has issues. Whether the issues are from the medication or not, I'm sure I'll never know. But I have to wonder if her drug usage at such a young age has anything to do with her drug abuse as an adult, and other various problems she has.

Closer to home-I went through this nonsense with my own daughter when she was in 3rd grade. Never a problem before, or after. Teacher sent home paperwork requesting signature for her to be seen for suspected ADHD. I refused to sign it, so they took up their school chain of command, demanding that I come in for a meeting with a counselor. No problem. When I arrived, it was like a meeting with the knights of the round table. The room was full of school staff, teachers and the school counselor, with the addition of a counselor from outside. Seriously, a dozen people in that room. Each person in turn tells why they believe she has ADHD. The only person who did not speak about my daughters "need" to be medicated, was the psychiatrist from the outside. When it came down to her and I being the only people who had not spoken, she asked me if I thought my daughter had ADHD. I told her "absolutely not".

What this boiled down to was something that had been brewing for some time. My daughter is a smart girl. Always has been. I home schooled before she started public school, and at one point took her out of public school altogether, and home schooled her. I had issues with the schools challenging her from day one. In this third grade class, my daughter would finish her work, and then she would become a distraction. The teacher and I had discussed this. The problem was, when my daughter had read everything that was available in the class, to keep her busy and quiet while the other students finished, the teacher didn't want to work any harder at giving her something to keep her busy. Bottom line-lazy teacher.

So, I know what vrai is getting at, and it isn't cases like yours. There are parents that pretty much brag about having their kids on one medication or another. They actually feel like they don't fit in if their kids aren't being medicated. It is a problem.

Allow me to add: If kids spent more time outdoors burning off energy, the majority of them would not need medication to settle down. Kids are supposed to be full of energy. They're supposed to ride bikes, jump ropes, climb trees, play tag. They need recess back.
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna' chime in here. Sam, I think you're defending a position that doesn't need to be defended. ............................

Allow me to add: If kids spent more time outdoors burning off energy, the majority of them would not need medication to settle down. Kids are supposed to be full of energy. They're supposed to ride bikes, jump ropes, climb trees, play tag. They need recess back.
I gotcha on the first part - but then you followed up with the last.

From my perspective, this is a common problem that has gone untreated for decades - FASD is caused by mothers drinking during pregnancy,
and all over the world - and even here in the U.S. - drinking while pregnant is considered no big thing at all. I'd hazard a guess that thousands
of the problem kids you may have grown up with were FASD or somewhere on the spectrum of the disorder. As many as 1 in 20 kids have it, and
most will go undiagnosed their entire lives, because kids with FASD usually just look like anyone else.

My youngest - is a brat. I love her deeply, but she doesn't need medication. She needs a firm hand - on her behind.
She was four when we got her, and at her present age, she still doesn't get that the whole world doesn't have to defer to her.
Her doctor would never medicate her, nor would I ask.

On one point you alluded to - I heartily agree. They need recess back - we had three a day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon
and the big one midday. Moreover, the school grounds were receptive to kids playing BEFORE school whereas nowadays, they're strictly
off-limits.

I used to work with about the stupidest woman you'd ever meet. I am serious. She didn't know that raisins were grapes. She thought there
were boy cows and girl cows, boy hens and girl hens, until I told her about bulls and roosters. And not surprisingly, she had less than stellar
kids. Whom received medication. I have no doubt she was an idiot as a mom. I also have no doubt her sons needed it.

My primary beef is that people who do not deal with this often make judgments and profound distaste on the issue, and I can safely say,
they have no idea. It is a hasty judgment on all of us parents who are dealing with a child who will live with us until we die.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
In this third grade class, my daughter would finish her work, and then she would become a distraction. The teacher and I had discussed this. The problem was, when my daughter had read everything that was available in the class, to keep her busy and quiet while the other students finished, the teacher didn't want to work any harder at giving her something to keep her busy. Bottom line-lazy teacher.

this is my [now] 13 yr old ..... since the 3rd grade, finishes the class work light yrs ahead of her classmates, burns through books keeping her mind occupied

thankfully her teachers engaged my daughter and they found a solution
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
No, you didn't say that. Actually, you put it on the parents, for wanting to drug their kids rather than "parent" them.
I don't know of a parent who does that.
See, I do. When I lived in Middletown it was like a contest to see which Munchausen Mommy had the sickest kid. Allergies to everything, all of them had ADHD, asthma, etc etc etc. It was suggested by two different teachers that we drug Larry's youngest: the talented dreamer who had little interest in academics but was wholly focused on her art. It was also suggested that she might be autistic. (She wasn't, she was fine, and is now a happy healthy productive adult with a successful photography business.) Turns out that schools get more money for "disabled" children, so they actually get paid to "diagnose" kids with something.

It wasn't my intention to offend you or any other parent who has a child that legitimately needs these medications. I understand how hard it is and also that the meds are a painful decision and last resort. My comment was SOLELY directed at the parents and teachers who have normal rowdy or inattentive children that they don't want to deal with.

:peace:
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
It wasn't my intention to offend you or any other parent who has a child that legitimately needs these medications. I understand how hard it is and also that the meds are a painful decision and last resort.
Oh I never thought you were. I just DEAL with the issue more personally when I come in contact with
people who think that medication is all about doping up your kid rather than disciplining them.

You know what's almost as funny? People who think you adopt by showing up at the "orphanage"
(which largely don't exist anymore in the U.S.) and just pick a kid like you were buying a pet.
They'll say dumb things like maybe we should have adopted rather than have one. And my first thought
is - "really? do you have the slightest idea how much #### we had to do, first?".

The hardest decision is still to come - what to do when he's grown. I can't take care of him forever
and it's not as though my son is going to marry someone who will volunteer to take care of him for
the rest of his life. He has no skills that will sustain him through adult life.
 

SailorGirl

Active Member
Oh I never thought you were. I just DEAL with the issue more personally when I come in contact with
people who think that medication is all about doping up your kid rather than disciplining them.

You know what's almost as funny? People who think you adopt by showing up at the "orphanage"
(which largely don't exist anymore in the U.S.) and just pick a kid like you were buying a pet.
They'll say dumb things like maybe we should have adopted rather than have one. And my first thought
is - "really? do you have the slightest idea how much #### we had to do, first?".

The hardest decision is still to come - what to do when he's grown. I can't take care of him forever
and it's not as though my son is going to marry someone who will volunteer to take care of him for
the rest of his life. He has no skills that will sustain him through adult life.
Would you mind posting when you come up with some ideas on that subject - it's going to happen to me/my son one day too, probably sooner than I can imagine. It's both killing me and giving me a greater appreciation of God and the fact that I wake up every morning (so far).
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
From my perspective, this is a common problem that has gone untreated for decades - FASD is caused by mothers drinking during pregnancy,
and all over the world - and even here in the U.S. - drinking while pregnant is considered no big thing at all. I
I have to disagree with this, everyone I know looks down on women that drink and smoke while pregnant.

I do have to wonder about human history though, water use to not be safe so everyone drank beer and wine, did kids throughout history use to be messed up?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
I have to disagree with this, everyone I know looks down on women that drink and smoke while pregnant.
They do now, but 30+ years ago when I was pregnant I smoked my ass off (as did everyone) and the doctor didn't advise against it. He said I should have a glass of wine in the evening so I could sleep, but because of my mother's alcoholism and subsequent career counseling alcoholics who goofed up their kids by drinking when they were pregnant I was scared to do that.

I do have to wonder about human history though, water use to not be safe so everyone drank beer and wine, did kids throughout history use to be messed up?
Maybe that's what made them all vicious crazies who genocided each other and enslaved people? That would be a good study - did Einstein's mother drink and smoke when she was pregnant with him? Or Ghandi's mother?
 
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