The new religious right in America

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
People who don't believe in abortion shouldn't get abortions. They should not try to regulate when , where or how other women should get them.
I know many people who oppose abortion...or, at a minimum, later term abortions, who are not the tiniest bit religious. What does the abortion question - when is the taking of a human life legal and when not? - have to do with your yet-to-be-supported assertion that the government is forcing religion on anyone?
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
i don't believe the unborn want to be aborted, maybe you should ask them and if they say yes, go ahead. BTW its not just a Religious thing.

Fetuses are not people. They don't get a say at least until the are viable at that point abortion is illegal in most cases anyway.

As for gay dudes. if you want to stick it up another dudes a$$ i don't care, it their "choice" but i don't have to bake them a cake.
If you own a bakery open to the public you do as of now. Many courts have confirmed this.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
If you own a bakery open to the public you do as of now. Many courts have confirmed this.
So you are saying you are OK with the government forcing it's will in opposition to people's religious beliefs?

Not surprised.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
So you are saying you are OK with the government forcing it's will in opposition to people's religious beliefs?

Not surprised.

It is not an endorsement of anything to bake a cake. If they ask you to write on it I endorse gay marriage then you can refuse to write that. Please read something other than Infowars. All this stuff is easily found.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
...... scientific evidence of climate change ......
what evidence is that .....
Climate Changes all the time, it has yet to be proven MAN is the cause ....
Climate Change is Natures Cycle ....

3%

:bs:

http://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/disentangling-the-data-planned-parenthood-affiliates-abortion-services

How does the Planned Parenthood annual report arrive at the 3 percent figure? The calculation counts each “discrete clinical interaction” as a separate “medical service,” meaning simple tests or routine provision of birth control are given the same weight as surgical or chemical abortions.[6] For example, if a woman in the course of a year receives a free condom, a pregnancy test, a sexually transmitted infection (STI) test, and an abortion, Planned Parenthood would say abortion was only 25 percent of the services provided.

Even with Planned Parenthood’s broad definition of “medical service,” data reported in the organization’s annual report suggest that roughly 12 percent of people who received a service from Planned Parenthood affiliates received an abortion during the reporting year.[7]

Despite a nearly 20 percent decline in the number of abortions in the country between 2000 and 2011,[8] the number of abortions Planned Parenthood performed during that time increased from 197,070 to 333,964, thereby more than doubling its share of the abortion market from 15 percent in 2000 to 32 percent in 2011,[9] the latest year for which national data are available.

Planned Parenthood affiliates perform about 20 abortions for every prenatal care visit and about 200 abortions for every adoption referral based on the approximately 300,000 abortions they perform each year.[10]

Here’s Why the Claim Abortion Accounts for Only 3 Percent of Planned Parenthood Services Is ‘Completely Bogus’


Planned Parenthood and its advocates often like to note that abortion accounts for only 3 percent of its services. They love that number because they use it to push back at the narrative that Planned Parenthood is an “abortion giant.” They came up with the statistic by dividing the number of abortions they perform by their number of “services.” Yet, they are counting all of their operations and medical tests equally, regardless of how much effort or time goes into them. For instance, an abortion, which can cost over $1,000, is considered on the same scale as a pregnancy test, which a young woman can obtain for a mere $10. No wonder how they came up with the idea they offer 9.4 million services a year.

The math is “completely ridiculous” and "bogus" says LiveAction. The pro-life group released a new video on Wednesday that shares some statistics that Planned Parenthood doesn’t want you to know.

  • Planned Parenthood performs over 300,000 abortions a year. That’s one abortion every 97 seconds.
  • One in eight patients who walked into a Planned Parenthood clinic are getting an abortion.
  • For every one adoption referral, Planned Parenthood performs 160 abortions.
  • Planned Parenthood accounts for over 30 percent of the nation’s abortions

These facts, however, would cause a “public relations problem” for the organization, LiveAction surmises.


In case you’re wondering if these claims are just a biased opinion from a pro-life group, consider that liberal outlets like Slate and The Washington Post have also exposed Planned Parenthood’s bogus 3 percent stat.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I never said it was a requirement of Chrisitians. I do believe however that the attitude of most christian's is to deny science and believe that god made the planet and ultimately controls its fate so doing anything to be good stewards of it is futile. Scientific beliefs such as the big bang theory are generally anthema to creationism and I have heard many Christians shut down as soon as someone points to scientific evidence of climate change as accepting one scientific theory would strengthen other scientific theory.
You believe improperly. The person who came up with the Big Bang theory was a priest. You should consider re-calibrating your belief.

It actually does provide permission, without a marriage license you can not get legally married and enjoy the benefits of a married couple
That's not permission, that's why you would choose to voluntarily register. But, you can marry and have EVERY benefit of being married except the tax variations (good or bad). You can even share your home, celebrate anniversaries, go on vacations together, plan your lives together, love one another, visit each other in the hospital, leave all of your possessions to each other via a will, insure one another, have a commitment ceremony in front of friends and family, raise children.....whatever you want.

Do you have any idea how courts work in this country? Why should a woman have to prove to a judge she has been raped? Why should she have to wait for the back log of cases in this country to clear so she can be seen by a judge? Then conservatives would just try to pass even more restrictive laws saying abortion is not legal after say 14 weeks. It could take that long to get a court date and been cleared to have an abortion.
I do understand how the courts work. It would seem you do not. You can get a hearing virtually same day for an emergency situation, like this would be. Right after the rape kit is administered at the hospital, for example, one could start the process and take the Plan B, or a same-day when found out one is pregnant - file the charges and talk with the judge. She doesn't have to PROVE anything, she merely has to have a believable story and have charged the rape.

And 3% of planned parenthoods services are abortions but that doesn't stop conservatives from trying to take a way their funding.
Not sure what that has to do with anything. Less than 1% of the time Jeff Dahmer was alive was he killing people - does that mean his murders didn't matter?

If you offer a public service you need to make that service available to everyone equally.
Why? That makes no sense whatsoever when we consider ourselves free. Ford didn't offer my car in the color I wanted - should I sue?

By baking a cake for someone you are not showing support. You are doing your job.
That's an opinion, but not a very well thought out one. For religious freedom, one should be able to NOT provide a service if they choose.

Now, I will grant you that if you are the ONLY pharmacist in 100 miles, and therefore the only person able to supply certain legal/prescription drugs for one's health and safety, you should probably be required to provide that service. No one NEEDS Baker X to provide a cake for their health and safety.

The recent case with the T-shirts was found to be different because they were tacitally proving by writing a pro gay message
No clue what that is about. Never heard of a T-shirt thing.

People who don't believe in abortion shouldn't get abortions. They should not try to regulate when , where or how other women should get them.
That's a great philosophy. People who have never been raped should make laws about rape, or never been murdered should make laws about murder, either. You make a lot of sense :sarcasm:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Fetuses are not people. They don't get a say at least until the are viable at that point abortion is illegal in most cases anyway.
Science disagrees - but you are off the point. Your point was that these are religious laws forced upon you. Is murder therefore only a religious law?

If you own a bakery open to the public you do as of now. Many courts have confirmed this.
Can you explain why?
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
You believe improperly. The person who came up with the Big Bang theory was a priest. You should consider re-calibrating your belief.

That's the same as saying the Democrats started the KKK. It is disingenuous. Creationists do not believe in no matter who came up with it

That's not permission, that's why you would choose to voluntarily register. But, you can marry and have EVERY benefit of being married except the tax variations (good or bad). You can even share your home, celebrate anniversaries, go on vacations together, plan your lives together, love one another, visit each other in the hospital, leave all of your possessions to each other via a will, insure one another, have a commitment ceremony in front of friends and family, raise children.....whatever you want.
That is not true. In many states without the certificate you can not visit your partner in the hospital, will your possessions or insure one another if you are gay.



I do understand how the courts work. It would seem you do not. You can get a hearing virtually same day for an emergency situation, like this would be. Right after the rape kit is administered at the hospital, for example, one could start the process and take the Plan B, or a same-day when found out one is pregnant - file the charges and talk with the judge. She doesn't have to PROVE anything, she merely has to have a believable story and have charged the rape. Sounds like you re say g she has to prove it



Not sure what that has to do with anything. Less than 1% of the time Jeff Dahmer was alive was he killing people - does that mean his murders didn't matter? You were the one who said 1% of abortions are due to rape or incest so I guess we should ignore your statistic?



Why? That makes no sense whatsoever when we consider ourselves free. Ford didn't offer my car in the color I wanted - should I sue? No because they offered you a car. Do you not understand the meaning of discrimination? That doesn't mean they need to provide every car. just the ones they sell need to be provided to everyone



That's an opinion, but not a very well thought out one. For religious freedom, one should be able to NOT provide a service if they choose.

Now, I will grant you that if you are the ONLY pharmacist in 100 miles, and therefore the only person able to supply certain legal/prescription drugs for one's health and safety, you should probably be required to provide that service. No one NEEDS Baker X to provide a cake for their health and safety.
Please read the public accommodation law. If you offer a service you must offer it equally. Dozen's of courts have agreed



No clue what that is about. Never heard of a T-shirt thing. I would explain it to you but your lack of understanding of the definition of discrimination doesn't give me much hope.



That's a great philosophy. People who have never been raped should make laws about rape, or never been murdered should make laws about murder, either. You make a lot of sense :sarcasm:
Again, disingenuous. Rape and murder are things that others do to you or happen to you. Abortion is a choice.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
Science disagrees - but you are off the point. Your point was that these are religious laws forced upon you. Is murder therefore only a religious law?
How does since disagree that a fetus has an option before it is viable? what does that even mean?


Can you explain why?
Because you are offering a public service and you must provide that to everyone equally.
 

Makavide

Not too talkative
I never said it was a requirement of Chrisitians. I do believe however that the attitude of most christian's is to deny science and believe that god made the planet and ultimately controls its fate so doing anything to be good stewards of it is futile. Scientific beliefs such as the big bang theory are generally anthema to creationism and I have heard many Christians shut down as soon as someone points to scientific evidence of climate change as accepting one scientific theory would strengthen other scientific theory.
You do know that the Big Bang Theory is, in reality, a "religious hypothesis"

Monsignor Georges Lemaître was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, physicist and astronomer. He is usually credited with the first definitive formulation of the idea of an expanding universe and what was to become known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe, which Lemaître himself called his “hypothesis of the primeval atom” or the “Cosmic Egg”.
http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/scientists_lemaitre.html
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
You do know that the Big Bang Theory is, in reality, a "religious hypothesis"

Yes I do. And one person who happens to be a astronomer and physicist and a priest is an exception not a rule.

Ask most christians which they believe and i doubt the answer will be the Big Bang, it will be Creationism.
 

Makavide

Not too talkative
Yes I do. And one person who happens to be a astronomer and physicist and a priest is an exception not a rule.

Ask most christians which they believe and i doubt the answer will be the Big Bang, it will be Creationism.
and all the Christians I know, believe that God was the cause of the big bang. In other words, God "created" the big bang. He created the universe, not just the earth.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
and all the Christians I know, believe that God was the cause of the big bang. In other words, God "created" the big bang. He created the universe, not just the earth.

Well people who believe in god believe he is responsible for all things and all things through god. The mere existence of god goes against many scientific beliefs and conclusions. Which is why you don't find much overlap between those that believe in creationism and those that believe in man made climate change
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Well people who believe in god believe he is responsible for all things and all things through god. The mere existence of god goes against many scientific beliefs and conclusions. Which is why you don't find much overlap between those that believe in creationism and those that believe in man made climate change
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't actually KNOW all that many christian people - or at least, ones that discuss what they believe. Because the stuff you purport doesn't square with my decades of experience, and I've been in a lot of churches, including some very fundamentalist ones.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Because you are offering a public service and you must provide that to everyone equally.
I didn't provide services to a lot of people when I was in business. Deadbeats, thieves, technical idiots, some government agencies and just plain a$$holes.......
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't actually KNOW all that many christian people - or at least, ones that discuss what they believe. Because the stuff you purport doesn't square with my decades of experience, and I've been in a lot of churches, including some very fundamentalist ones.
Don't hurt yrself, Sam...that's an awfully short limb. More of a "stub", really.
 
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