the scriptures

Starman3000m

New Member
One of the scenes I remembered was - when God was satisfied that He could leave the world in good hands, while He went on a well-deserved vacation - 7 days, He was bidding Bruce farewell, whe Bruce stopped Him with a very serious question:

"If You have given mankind the measure of Free Will, then how do you get them to love you?"

God replied: "Now you see where My problem is."

THAT floored me; I sat there for many minutes, in awe of what I just witnessed.

BINGO! If God had pre-conditioned and created people to eventually end up loving and obeying Him, that would not be a sincere display of true love nor appreciation for who He is and what He has done for us. He already has His host of perfect and obedient angelic beings who serve Him in heaven since the foundation of the earth.

God really wants people to choose to love Him and do His Will; not because they have or are programmed to but because they (of their own free-will) want to! This encompasses the comprehension and acknowledgment of one's sinner self - knowing that our good will never be good enough to merit entry into Heaven. It is a realization that we can only be saved by the Grace of God who provided His Plan of Salvation through the Perfect Atoning Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, as mentioned in the New Testament accounts.

God is willing that no man should perish but that all would come to repentance:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

Not all choose to come to repentance.
 
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itsbob

I bowl overhand
Bob, you can subscribe to any belief, or set of ideals you wish to; that's your choice. However, I am in disgust that you would label Jesus Christ as a "thug".

I am going to say a prayer to God, in Jesus's name, on your behalf.

Jesus f'in Christ, have you read the Bible??

If you believe it to be true, then you must believe him to be a criminal.

There are at least 20 stories in the Bible of him BREAKING the law of the land at the time. Today we'd call him an Anarchist.. amazingly close to antichrist..

And don't waste your breath or your time praying for me, I don't need it nor do I want it.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Jesus f'in Christ, have you read the Bible??

If you believe it to be true, then you must believe him to be a criminal.

There are at least 20 stories in the Bible of him BREAKING the law of the land at the time. Today we'd call him an Anarchist.. amazingly close to antichrist..

And don't waste your breath or your time praying for me, I don't need it nor do I want it.

Which laws of God did He break?

- Healing a man on the Sabbath when He Is The Lord of The Sabbath?

- Forgiving an adulteress woman whom the Pharisees wanted to stone to death - when Judaism teaches that Only God can Forgive?

- Allowing His disciples to eat with unwashen hands?

- Chastising the religious elders for turning the Synagogue into a flea market?

- Talking to the Samarian woman at the well when it was against Jewish law to talk to Samaritans?

- Proclaiming He was the Messiah when He really was/is the Jewish Messiah?

- Proclaiming that He was The Son of God when He really was/is The Son of God?

- Performing Miracles by the power of God that convinced people of His Divine powers while the religious leaders claimed the miracles were of Satan?

This makes Him a "criminal" ???
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Which laws of God did He break?

- Healing a man on the Sabbath when He Is The Lord of The Sabbath?

- Forgiving an adulteress woman whom the Pharisees wanted to stone to death - when Judaism teaches that Only God can Forgive?

- Allowing His disciples to eat with unwashen hands?

- Chastising the religious elders for turning the Synagogue into a flea market?

- Talking to the Samarian woman at the well when it was against Jewish law to talk to Samaritans?

- Proclaiming He was the Messiah when He really was/is the Jewish Messiah?

- Proclaiming that He was The Son of God when He really was/is The Son of God?

- Performing Miracles by the power of God that convinced people of His Divine powers while the religious leaders claimed the miracles were of Satan?

This makes Him a "criminal" ???

For one, you read the Bible, you know the answers, you tell me.

And he is NOT the Jewish Messiah.. He did not meet the criteria to be the Jewish Messiah.. The reason they don't think the Messiah has come yet is because Jesus wasn't HIM!!
 

Starman3000m

New Member
For one, you read the Bible, you know the answers, you tell me.

And he is NOT the Jewish Messiah.. He did not meet the criteria to be the Jewish Messiah.. The reason they don't think the Messiah has come yet is because Jesus wasn't HIM!!

The only thing that Jesus broke was the misguided teaching of the Orthodox leaders who prided themselves in thinking that their "rites, traditions and religious observations" were all what was needed to please God. The religious leaders didn't take too kindly to Jesus stating otherwise by quoting Isaiah:

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(Matthew 15:8-9)

He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me (Mark 7:6)

Those are the Orthodox that didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, yet there are thousands of Jews who accepted Him then and who accept Him now as the Jewish Messiah who Atoned for the sins of mankind and will return as the end-times Messiah to establish God's Peace on earth.
 
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OoberBoober

Awwwwooooooooo
so there answer was..


We'll cite scripture to prove they are real!!??

I had an epiphany this week..

I'm going to call myself a Godhist.

I believe in God..

You do NOT have to believe in Christ, Christianity, the Bible OR organized religion.. YOu can skip the middle man and just believe in God. And I use the term God as I don't know any other word anyone would recognize for a superior being or force. I don't know if God looks like us, but I doubt it.
That's already called an agnostic, or a weak atheist.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
That's already called an agnostic, or a weak atheist.

I find agnostic a deragatory term..

As most people see it and think, he's a heathen he doesn't believe in God..

Heathen and Heretic really shouldn't be associatted with a person that believes in "God", just not "Christianity".

Godhist sounds much more acceptable. Though if you are a fellow Godhist, and we see each other in public it would be acceptable to say.. "My Agnosta.. How's it hangin!?"
 

OoberBoober

Awwwwooooooooo
I find agnostic a deragatory term..

As most people see it and think, he's a heathen he doesn't believe in God..

Heathen and Heretic really shouldn't be associatted with a person that believes in "God", just not "Christianity".

Godhist sounds much more acceptable. Though if you are a fellow Godhist, and we see each other in public it would be acceptable to say.. "My Agnosta.. How's it hangin!?"

:killingme I wonder if priests in the Vatican yell "whats up brotha?" when they walk past each other.
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
I have often wondered, at the time in which Isaiah wrote his Old Testament book, what the Jewish nation thought of chapter 53?

WHO did they think he was refering to? This was written some 500 - 600 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. Please read that cahapter, and tell me your thoughts?
 

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
Isaiah 53

Chapter 53
<SUP>1</SUP> Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
<SUP>2</SUP> For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
<SUP>3</SUP> He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
<SUP>4</SUP> Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
<SUP>5</SUP> But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
<SUP>6</SUP> All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
<SUP>7</SUP> He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
<SUP>8</SUP> He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
<SUP>9</SUP> And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
<SUP>10</SUP> Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
<SUP>11</SUP> He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
<SUP>12</SUP> Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


This is what is contained in Isaiah 53. This is, as I interpret it, the fortelling of the Coming of The Christ. Again, this was predicted/foretold some 500 - 600 years before Christ was born.

Yet, they, the Jewish Nation refused to believe in Isaiah's prophesy, this coming from a man very well respected in his time.

I may be onesided in thinking the way I interpret these verses, but, I have to ask: Was there any other man, or person, born in the land of Israel, at that timeframe, who becomes remotely akin, in your mind - to the one depicted in his words?
 

Nucklesack

New Member
Chapter 53
<SUP>1</SUP> Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
<SUP>2</SUP> For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
<SUP>3</SUP> He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
<SUP>4</SUP> Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
<SUP>5</SUP> But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
<SUP>6</SUP> All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
<SUP>7</SUP> He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
<SUP>8</SUP> He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
<SUP>9</SUP> And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
<SUP>10</SUP> Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
<SUP>11</SUP> He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
<SUP>12</SUP> Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


This is what is contained in Isaiah 53. This is, as I interpret it, the fortelling of the Coming of The Christ. Again, this was predicted/foretold some 500 - 600 years before Christ was born.

Yet, they, the Jewish Nation refused to believe in Isaiah's prophesy, this coming from a man very well respected in his time.

I may be onesided in thinking the way I interpret these verses, but, I have to ask: Was there any other man, or person, born in the land of Israel, at that timeframe, who becomes remotely akin, in your mind - to the one depicted in his words?

Before it was deleted, i had a thread that asked what prophecies did Jesus fullfill. The Jewish faith believes he is not the messiah because of many prophecies that were not fullfilled:

Isaiah 1:26
Isaiah 2:4
Isaiah 2:17
Isaiah 11:1
Isaiah 11:2
Isaiah 11:4
Isaiah 11:6-9
Isaiah 11:9
Isaiah 11:10
Isaiah 11:12
Isaiah 25:8
Isaiah 26:19
Isaiah 43:5-6
Isaiah 51:3
Isaiah 51:11
Isaiah 52:7
Isaiah 52:13-53:5
1 Chronicles 22:8-10
2 Chronicles 7:18
Ezekiel 16:55
Ezekiel 36:29-30
Ezekiel 37:26-28
Ezekiel 39:9
Ezekiel 40
Zephaniah 3:9
Zechariah 8:23
Zechariah 14:9
Jeremiah 31:33
Psalms 37:4
Amos 9:13-15

Wonder how long this will stay before someone gets their feelings hurt that we discuss Religion in a forums supposedly to discuss religion?
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Before it was deleted, i had a thread that asked what prophecies did Jesus fullfill. The Jewish faith believes he is not the messiah because of many prophecies that were not fullfilled:

And, remember, I posted a list of 300 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled as being the "Suffering Servant" and Moshiach that pointed to His being the Moshiach ben Yosef that is taught in Orthodox Judaism. The life and ministry of Jesus was first to come to die as a Perfect Atonement for the sins of mankind and not to establish the Millennial Kingdom at that time as the Orthodox wanted Him to do for them - at that time.

The list you just posted are prophetic fulfillments that occur during His Millennial Reign from Jerusalem. (Second Advent)
 
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Nucklesack

New Member
And, remember, I posted a list if 300 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled as being the "Suffering Servant" and Moshiach that pointed to His being the Moshiach ben Yosef that is taught in Orthodox Judaism. The life and ministry of Jesus was first to come to die as a Perfect Atonement for the sins of mankind and not to establish the Millennial Kingdom at that time as the Orthodox wanted Him to do for them - at that time.

I couldnt comment on your "List" because someone has gone through and removed my recent posts, including the thread i created on this subject.

Alot of the 300 you cited, were not related to Jesus (you had a genesis reference to a king breaking bread that you claimed was a precursser to the Last supper) or they were New Testament claims of the Prophecies.

Since the Messiah is defined in the Old Testament, those are the prophecies that had to be fullfilled, and were not (see my list above).

There is nothing about a second coming in the OT, it states the Messiah will fullfill this upon or during his arrival. The Second Coming is a New Testament creation, with nothing in the OT to support it.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
I couldnt comment on your "List" because someone has gone through and removed my recent posts, including the thread i created on this subject.

Alot of the 300 you cited, were not related to Jesus (you had a genesis reference to a king breaking bread that you claimed was a precursser to the Last supper) or they were New Testament claims of the Prophecies.

Since the Messiah is defined in the Old Testament, those are the prophecies that had to be fullfilled, and were not (see my list above).

There is nothing about a second coming in the OT, it states the Messiah will fullfill this upon or during his arrival. The Second Coming is a New Testament creation, with nothing in the OT to support it.

Orthodox Judaism teaches of two (2) Moshiachs. Maybe you can check back with the Rabbi and have him tell you if the first one has arrived yet or if he is still waiting for ben Yosef first. Thus, the first Moshiac still needs to appear for the Orthdox and they see him killed before Moshiach ben David appears.
 
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Nucklesack

New Member
Orthodox Judaism teaches of two (2) Moshiachs. Maybe you can check back with the Rabbi and have him tell you if the first one has arrived yet or if he is still waiting for ben Yosef first. Thus, the first Moshiac still needs to appear for the Orthdox and they see him killed before Moshiach ben David appears.

The unfullfilled prophecies above are some of the major reasons the Jews do not beleive Jesus is the Messiah.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
The unfullfilled prophecies above are some of the major reasons the Jews do not beleive Jesus is the Messiah.
And, here I thought it as because they liked the little hats. :rolleyes:

You mean, there's lack of consensus among religious peoples about the same religious background?! I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

It's a good thing you brought this up, or no one would have ever figured that out.
 
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