The Shroud of Turin

[Bavarian]

Carbon dating WAS done that proved it was 600 years old.

Church came back and said the pieces THEY gave the researchers were the wrong pieces..

Researchers said, "Give us the RIGHT pieces to test"

Church said "NO! No more research (read answers) that we don't approve of first!"

You do not believe, OK. But, as I said, what harm does belief in the Shroud of Turin makes you and your fellow travelers so irate?

 

[Zguy28]

For the Fundie's: What harm is their in believing the Shroud of Turin is the actual burial cloth of Christ?

What harm is there in NOT believing it is?

Isn't the testimony of the word of God enough to lead one to faith and sanctification?

 

[hvp05]

I don't buy this, but it is certainly an interesting theory.

That's interesting alright.

The reason I have heard for 'young' dates on the Shroud is that contaminants or even other fibers have been added to it over time (patches, etc.). I'm sure the RCC would not collapse if it lost the Shroud, but after all the church has invested in it, the church would look foolish.

 

[PsyOps]

I think the Shoud of Turin has not been shown to be a fake! God has the infinite power to leave behind signs and symbols for us. The energy of the Resurrection could easily have left the image. Carbon dating could not be extensively done without destroying the Shroud.
Don't forget that Christ also left the Image of His Face on the cloth Veronica used to wipe His Face as He carried the cross.

For the Fundie's: What harm is their in believing the Shroud of Turin is the actual burial cloth of Christ?

When I was in Constantinople now Istanbul, I saw the staff of Moses and the skull of St. John the Baptist at the Topkapi Palace.

So you need such proof that Jesus was real?

 

[Bavarian]

So you need such proof that Jesus was real?

You seem to miss the point. It is not necessary for belief in Christ's Resurrection but what is the harm? If it saves one soul, it is worth it!

If true, it gives us a picture of what Our Lord looked like.

 

[Bavarian]

I am seeing from the many years of these posts that there is a group of Fundie's who are either very unsure of their Faith that they need to endlessly beat down any Catholic ideas.

Either that, or they are possessed by Devils and are here to try to lead souls astray. You seem to have a quick trigger to change any nice discussion into a you versus us battle.

What harm does believing that the Shroud of Turin is Christ's burial cloth do to you?

 

[PsyOps]

You seem to miss the point. It is not necessary for belief in Christ's Resurrection but what is the harm? If it saves one soul, it is worth it!

If true, it gives us a picture of what Our Lord looked like.

Do you believe the shroud is that of Jesus? If so, if it was placed in front of you what would you do?

 

[PsyOps]

I am seeing from the many years of these posts that there is a group of Fundie's who are either very unsure of their Faith that they need to endlessly beat down any Catholic ideas.

Either that, or they are possessed by Devils and are here to try to lead souls astray. You seem to have a quick trigger to change any nice discussion into a you versus us battle.

What harm does believing that the Shroud of Turin is Christ's burial cloth do to you?

I have no doubt about my faith and don't need a shroud, or statue, or to speak in babbling tongues, or have prophesies spoken to me to confirm this. Just as you ask 'what is the harm' I ask 'what larger purpose would it serve'. If someone needs this level of confirmation to bring them to Christ I wont begrudge it except to say perhaps they should take a closer look at their faith and what it's based on.

 

[Starman3000m]

39 Stripes

Yes, that is a common thought. However, check out this site about the Roman scourging weapon. If there were three strings attached to the handle all the Roman centurion had to do was scourge Jesus 13 times. However it happened, we can pretty much understand that the scourging of Christ at the hands of Gentiles (Romans) represents the stripes by which we are healed:

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:4-6)


Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
(1 Peter 2:23-25)

The Roman Scourge (Bible History Online)

 

[Zguy28]

I am seeing from the many years of these posts that there is a group of Fundie's who are either very unsure of their Faith that they need to endlessly beat down any Catholic ideas.

Either that, or they are possessed by Devils and are here to try to lead souls astray. You seem to have a quick trigger to change any nice discussion into a you versus us battle.

What harm does believing that the Shroud of Turin is Christ's burial cloth do to you?

Be careful lest your strawman become an idol.

 

[Starman3000m]

I am seeing from the many years of these posts that there is a group of Fundie's who are either very unsure of their Faith that they need to endlessly beat down any Catholic ideas.

Either that, or they are possessed by Devils and are here to try to lead souls astray. You seem to have a quick trigger to change any nice discussion into a you versus us battle.

What harm does believing that the Shroud of Turin is Christ's burial cloth do to you?

I hope you comprehend that "Fundies" refers to those who adhere to the Fundamental beliefs of Christianity. Catholicism does not hold to the fundamental beliefs of the Holy Bible but, instead, has added many unorthodox teachings that have no Biblical foundation. The RCC has written its own sets of doctrine and dogma that it uses to control the masses of its followers.

 

[Bavarian]

Do you believe the shroud is that of Jesus? If so, if it was placed in front of you what would you do?

I would look at it with awe that God left behind His image. I would not worship it, if that is your question, anymore than I worship statues of Mary and the saints or George Washington or the U.S. Flag. They are symbols and many statues and paintings took many years of a skilled artisan to create.

 

[PsyOps]

I would look at it with awe that God left behind His image. I would not worship it, if that is your question, anymore than I worship statues of Mary and the saints or George Washington or the U.S. Flag. They are symbols and many statues and paintings took many years of a skilled artisan to create.

So, you do believe it is the Shroud of Jesus? When you see the shroud you see Jesus’ face? You’re absolutely certain of this?

 

[itsbob]

So, you do believe it is the Shroud of Jesus? When you see the shroud you see Jesus’ face? You’re absolutely certain of this?

Who else could it be?

Everyone knows that Jesus was a White Anglo Saxon..

 

[PsyOps]

Who else could it be?

Everyone knows that Jesus was a White Anglo Saxon..

I get your joke, but nothing indicates this image on the shroud is a white person.

 

[PsyOps]

One source:

The Shroud of Turin

Samples of the shroud were excised and given to three different radiocarbon dating laboratories in Zurich, Oxford and Arizona. The results of the tests were published in the prestigious scientific journal Nature, 1988, titled "Radiocarbon Dating of the Shroud of Turin." The following results were published on the samples tested.

Sample dates from Arizona:
591 +/- 30 yrs
690 +/- 35 yrs
606 +/- 41 yrs
701 +/- 33 yrs

Sample dates from Oxford:
795 +/- 65 yrs
730 +/- 45 yrs
745 +/- 55 yrs

Sample dates from Zurich:
733 +/- 61 yrs
722 +/- 56 yrs
635 +/- 57 yrs
639 +/- 45 yrs
679 +/- 51 yrs

The linen of the shroud was manufactured, according to these results, sometime between 1260 CE and 1390 CE with the mean value placing the manufacture of the linen in the 14th century! The results were startling and fueled the opinion that the shroud is a forgery manufactured by a clever medieval artist.

 

[itsbob]

They immediately thought of Leonardo Da Vinci. It had to be someone who was a bit of a genius and carbon dating showed that the shroud could have originated from his era. But most importantly, Prince and Picknett think that the image on the shroud is actually Da Vinci's face - and that he did this intentionally to leave his mark.

Even replicated the feat..

By coating the cloth with light-sensitive chemicals and using it as a film, Da Vinci could have projected his own image on the shroud to create the infamous relic. To prove that this was possible, Prince set out to recreate such an image on cloth. With no knowledge of photography, he got his brother to teach him the basics, studied the art on his own, and became the first to produce an image on cloth with the same characteristics as the shroud.

 

[Starman3000m]

On A Related Note:

While the authenticity of the "shroud of Turin" is controversial, the Christian faith hinges on the authenticity of Jesus' Resurrection. Herein is an explanation of why faith in Christ's Resurrection assures us of God's Promise that those who place faith in Him alone as Lord and Saviour will also have eternal life with Him:

The Resurrection: The Purpose and Promise

“Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies’” (John 11:25).”

The resurrection of Christ was foretold hundreds of years before His miracle birth. He also foretold this event to His disciples (though they didn’t initially understand). He is the Resurrection, as hundreds witnessed.

The Son of God was sacrificed on our behalf for the purpose of atoning for our sins. When Jesus taught this to the people of that time, many considered it heresy and as a result, they demanded His death by crucifixion, a common means of punishment for lawbreakers. Instead of offering a defense before the councils, Jesus was silent. Why? It was the divine plan of the Father God, from the beginning of time, that this be done so that we might have forgiveness and life. It was His purpose.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is a gift from God and fulfillment of His promise. It is the very foundation of Christianity. Since the disobedience of Adam in the Garden of Eden, all mankind is born with a sin nature. The Lord tells us that there is a price to be paid for sin and that cost is death. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

A life without Christ can only offer eternal death, but the acceptance of Jesus as our risen Savior gives us eternal life. Because eternal death is not what God wants for us, He provided a way of atonement through the crucifixion of His Son, Jesus, and His resurrection.

more:

The Resurrection