The Things People Are Afraid To Say About George Floyd And The Derek Chauvin Trial

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The charges leveled against Chauvin are hard to prove

Chauvin is charged with second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter.

In order to find Chauvin guilty of second degree murder, the prosecution will need to demonstrate one of the following:

  1. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd intentionally but without premeditation.
  2. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd without intending to kill him while “committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence.”
  3. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd without intending to kill him “while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim,” while Floyd was “restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order.”
In order to find Chauvin guilty of third degree murder, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that “Chauvin’s action (or actions) were ‘eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind,’ and displayed a disregard for human life.”

In order to find Chauvin guilty of second degree manslaughter, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that “George Floyd’s death was the result of Chauvin’s culpable negligence and that Chauvin created an unreasonable risk and consciously took chances of causing death or great bodily harm.”

Of these charges, second degree manslaughter is the only conviction which seems likely given the clear existence of reasonable doubt. Given that it appears that the knee hold in question was part of MPD training materials, the argument that Chauvin’s actions were lawful — not moral — examples of culpable negligence is increasingly thin.
 

Hessian

Well-Known Member
When does the prosecution rest their case?
I don't watch cable news...just listen to the occasional radio on-the-hour reports.

If the Defense needs 1-2 weeks before closing...we could be looking for a tense Mid-May verdict.

I also suspect there would be grounds for appeal due to the location of the venue and jury pool predisposition.
 

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
This trial is a staged circus, justice will not be served.
And the media is helping to light the fire. Any little 'gotcha' by the prosecution is blasted from the rooftops by the media, but the fact is that the prosecution has hosed this trial up badly. The defense is going to have a field day when their time starts, even using some of the prosecutions witnesses.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
The charges leveled against Chauvin are hard to prove

Chauvin is charged with second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter.

In order to find Chauvin guilty of second degree murder, the prosecution will need to demonstrate one of the following:

  1. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd intentionally but without premeditation.
  2. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd without intending to kill him while “committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence.”
  3. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd without intending to kill him “while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim,” while Floyd was “restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order.”
In order to find Chauvin guilty of third degree murder, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that “Chauvin’s action (or actions) were ‘eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind,’ and displayed a disregard for human life.”

In order to find Chauvin guilty of second degree manslaughter, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that “George Floyd’s death was the result of Chauvin’s culpable negligence and that Chauvin created an unreasonable risk and consciously took chances of causing death or great bodily harm.”

Of these charges, second degree manslaughter is the only conviction which seems likely given the clear existence of reasonable doubt. Given that it appears that the knee hold in question was part of MPD training materials, the argument that Chauvin’s actions were lawful — not moral — examples of culpable negligence is increasingly thin.
He's already guilty; the justice system just needs to make it official. Otherwise, cities will burn. Rioters are BLM is standing by.
 

herb749

Well-Known Member
So another angle shows his knee wasn't on his neck choking him to death. It was more on his shoulder. But the neck crowd will not change their stance I'd bet.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
The charges leveled against Chauvin are hard to prove

Chauvin is charged with second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter.

In order to find Chauvin guilty of second degree murder, the prosecution will need to demonstrate one of the following:

  1. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd intentionally but without premeditation.
  2. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd without intending to kill him while “committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence.”
  3. That Chauvin caused the death of George Floyd without intending to kill him “while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim,” while Floyd was “restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order.”
In order to find Chauvin guilty of third degree murder, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that “Chauvin’s action (or actions) were ‘eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind,’ and displayed a disregard for human life.”

In order to find Chauvin guilty of second degree manslaughter, the prosecution will need to demonstrate that “George Floyd’s death was the result of Chauvin’s culpable negligence and that Chauvin created an unreasonable risk and consciously took chances of causing death or great bodily harm.”

Of these charges, second degree manslaughter is the only conviction which seems likely given the clear existence of reasonable doubt. Given that it appears that the knee hold in question was part of MPD training materials, the argument that Chauvin’s actions were lawful — not moral — examples of culpable negligence is increasingly thin.
Gurps, my boy, wrong on all counts. In a jury trial the jurors can find anyway they want, regardless of instructions from the judge or precedent. The judge can literally sit there and say if they prove A happened, then you must find the defendant innocent of this charge, and A happened. And the jurors can say "get bent, he's guilty". Basically the opposite of jury nullification.

This does make for an easy appeal though.
 

herb749

Well-Known Member
They haft to find him guilty of something. Any juror that goes back to the jury room after closing has got to be thinking, I have a family, a house. I might not have one if this guy walks and they find out our names.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Speaking of - stuff you're not supposed to say - there was a guy on - Tucker? - last night. Wilfred Reilly, Associate Professor of Political Science at Kentucky State - has a book called "Taboo: Ten Facts You Can't Talk About". They pretty much run the gamut of items about race you're not supposed to come out and say - yet anyone honestly looking at the facts knows is true. He can write them, because he is African American, because had a white person written it - no publisher would touch it.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Speaking of - stuff you're not supposed to say - there was a guy on - Tucker? - last night. Wilfred Reilly, Associate Professor of Political Science at Kentucky State - has a book called "Taboo: Ten Facts You Can't Talk About". They pretty much run the gamut of items about race you're not supposed to come out and say - yet anyone honestly looking at the facts knows is true. He can write them, because he is African American, because had a white person written it - no publisher would touch it.
How prescient was Eric Holder when he said that Americans are afraid to talk about race?

Or did they misquote him, when he really said "We will make Americans afraid to talk about race"?
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Not all Americans are afraid to talk about race.
They just mostly do it among themselves. Many Americans are afraid to make public statements about race.
 
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