There is NO SUCH THING as a "Christian Terrorist"

[PsyOps]

What are our drone strikes doing? What did we did in our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and now Syria? We can call ourselves just all we like and some still do in rather amazing leaps of logic and reasoning, and that does not change, one bit, how they see it.

We are, in fact, killing those who oppose Christianity. They are devout believers but I took your point to mean those who do not worship Christ. We'd be a damn sight better off if we could come to grips with this and understand the simple and obvious.

I knew this would come up, but I didn’t think it would be from you.

We are NOT droning because they are non-Christians. We did not invade Afghanistan or Iraq because they refused to convert to Christianity. If we are killing them because they oppose Christianity, that’s not the same as us going after them because they are Muslims or refuse to convert to Christianity. And these things we are doing are being done by Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, etc... and NOT in the name of Christianity.

I can’t believe I have to explain this to someone like you Larry.

 

[PsyOps]

Do you see in your words the motivations and rationale to jihad?

Are you kidding me? I have to shut up about my faith because I fear it might motivate the jihadists?

Have you considered their jihad against me and our country motivates me as an American and our rationale to remove them from existence?

 

[Larry Gude]

Are you kidding me? I have to shut up about my faith because I fear it might motivate the jihadists?

Have you considered their jihad against me and our country motivates me as an American and our rationale to remove them from existence?

So, you do, in fact, get that this is about faith, ours and theirs? From those two posts, I'm not sure you get it but you usually do once we dig into it.

 

[Larry Gude]

I knew this would come up, but I didn’t think it would be from you.

We are NOT droning because they are non-Christians. We did not invade Afghanistan or Iraq because they refused to convert to Christianity. If we are killing them because they oppose Christianity, that’s not the same as us going after them because they are Muslims or refuse to convert to Christianity. And these things we are doing are being done by Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, etc... and NOT in the name of Christianity.

I can’t believe I have to explain this to someone like you Larry.

I didn't say we're killing them because they won't convert so, let us be very clear here because this is hugely important and, I think, the one enormous thing we've gotten wrong from the beginning. This IS, was and will be about religion, ours and theirs.

I think we've long agreed that they attack us because we're in their holy lands, have killed many Muslims and their faith calls them, like ours does, to defend home and hearth. Do we agree there?

 

[PsyOps]

So, you do, in fact, get that this is about faith, ours and theirs? From those two posts, I'm not sure you get it but you usually do once we dig into it.

So, in our instance, whose faith? Since our military (since our country) is made up of people with just about every existing faith... which one? In the context of the discussion with MR - that Christians are commanded by Jesus to kill non-believers - are you really going to say that we are fighting this war because this 'enemy' we fight are not Christians? Are you saying that we are even fighting them because they are Muslim?

 

[PsyOps]

I didn't say we're killing them because they won't convert so, let us be very clear here ...

Let's be clear... that's what the conversation between MR and myself is about. You're trying to change the subject.

 

[Larry Gude]

So, in our instance, whose faith? Since our military (since our country) is made up of people with just about every existing faith... which one? In the context of the discussion with MR - that Christians are commanded by Jesus to kill non-believers - are you really going to say that we are fighting this war because this 'enemy' we fight are not Christians? Are you saying that we are even fighting them because they are Muslim?

As I say, I'm not arguing that WE are commanded to kill Muslims BECAUSE they won't convert.

We are killing Muslims because we've bought into the argument that, because of 9/11, they unjustly threaten our home and hearth and better to go kill them there instead of here. I'm pointing out that your stated reasons for killing, the conditions under which you, as Christian, can justly kill, is to protect your own, home, hearth, family. Correct? And I'm pointing out that that is exactly why they answer the call to jihad and try and kill us; we threaten their home, their hearth, their way of life.

This is not obvious?

 

[Larry Gude]

Let's be clear... that's what the conversation between MR and myself is about. You're trying to change the subject.

No, I'm not. I agree with you, I AGREE WITH you, that we're not killing them because they won't convert yet we are at war with them over faith and the conditions under which you would kill are their reasons. They're not killing us because we won't convert either. They're killing us because, in their view, we are in their lands and we're killing Muslims and, as far as they can tell and care, we're Christians on a crusade and their faith calls them to fight back back.

 

[Larry Gude]

So, in our instance, whose faith? Since our military (since our country) is made up of people with just about every existing faith... which one? In the context of the discussion with MR - that Christians are commanded by Jesus to kill non-believers - are you really going to say that we are fighting this war because this 'enemy' we fight are not Christians? Are you saying that we are even fighting them because they are Muslim?

Ask every single jihadi what the US military represents and every single one of them will say...

...Christ.

 

[PsyOps]

Ask every single jihadi what the US military represents and every single one of them will say...

...Christ.

Anyone that is not Muslim is the infidel; not just Christians. I am friends with someone who is from a Muslim country and he and his family escaped because they were persecuting his faith - B'Hai. If they don't convert they are put into prison, and later executed. Do you think everyone that died on 911 were Christians? Do you really believe that was their sole target and they will kill anyone else so long as Christians are killed? I agree Christians are a prime target. We're seeing it in Syria and Iraq.

But, as much as I am concerned with their motivations, the discussion here is whether Christians exist on the same philosophical plane as jihadist Muslims; that we are commanded to kill anyone who refuses to become Christian.

 

[PsyOps]

No, I'm not. I agree with you, I AGREE WITH you, that we're not killing them because they won't convert yet we are at war with them over faith and the conditions under which you would kill are their reasons. They're not killing us because we won't convert either. They're killing us because, in their view, we are in their lands and we're killing Muslims and, as far as they can tell and care, we're Christians on a crusade and their faith calls them to fight back back.

WE are not at war with them over faith; THEY are at war with us over faith. WE are at war with them because they attacked our country. We are going after them, not because for religious/philosophical reasons; we are going after them because they continue to commit acts of war against us.

 

[Midnightrider]

So, in our instance, whose faith? Since our military (since our country) is made up of people with just about every existing faith... which one? In the context of the discussion with MR - that Christians are commanded by Jesus to kill non-believers - are you really going to say that we are fighting this war because this 'enemy' we fight are not Christians? Are you saying that we are even fighting them because they are Muslim?

Let's be clear... that's what the conversation between MR and myself is about. You're trying to change the subject.

lets be clear, the arguement you and i are having is over what the book says. The bible has lots of passages about killing unbeleivers, you want to dismiss them, just like liberal muslims dismiss similar teachings in their book. I am asking you to show your work in dismissing them. I am not seeing anything from jesus in the NT that says its ok to worship other gods and nothing that directly refutes deuteronomy. Your interpretation may be different, but the book says what it says.
Further, on the issue of "is there such thing as a christian terrorist" the answer must be yes considering many do commit acts in the name of jesus. The crazy PP guy most certainly fits the bill. If he were muttering things about allah you wouldn't have any questions about it.....

 

[Midnightrider]

WE are not at war with them over faith; THEY are at war with us over faith. WE are at war with them because they attacked our country. We are going after them, not because for religious/philosophical reasons; we are going after them because they continue to commit acts of war against us.

I must have missed the part where they only attack christians. That makes me feel a lot safer being that i am not a christian.

 

[Larry Gude]

WE are not at war with them over faith; THEY are at war with us over faith. WE are at war with them because they attacked our country. We are going after them, not because for religious/philosophical reasons; we are going after them because they continue to commit acts of war against us.

You do not accept that our invasion of Iraq in '91 was bin laden's motivation and rational and forms the basis for where we are today?

 

[PsyOps]

I must have missed the part where they only attack christians. That makes me feel a lot safer being that i am not a christian.

Your reading skills are compromised. Please read carefully:

Anyone that is not Muslim is the infidel; not just Christians. I am friends with someone who is from a Muslim country and he and his family escaped because they were persecuting his faith - B'Hai. If they don't convert they are put into prison, and later executed. Do you think everyone that died on 911 were Christians? Do you really believe that was their sole target and they will kill anyone else so long as Christians are killed? I agree Christians are a prime target. We're seeing it in Syria and Iraq.

 

[PsyOps]

You do not accept that our invasion of Iraq in '91 was bin laden's motivation and rational and forms the basis for where we are today?

I'll try it again, worded differently... we are NOT doing what we are doing because of their faith or our faith. They ARE doing what they are doing because of their faith. We are not attacking them because we are a bunch of Christian jihadists aimed at forcing them to convert. That is my only point in this whole discussion. You're trying to take me down a path that isn't anywhere near what I'm trying to say.

 

[PsyOps]

lets be clear, the arguement you and i are having is over what the book says. The bible has lots of passages about killing unbeleivers, you want to dismiss them

The OT has tons of those references. The NT does not. Christians live under the NT.

 

[This_person]

if we are beleive your interpretation you are saying that Jesus said to love your enemies and give them what they want to take from you

You're good so far...

and to ignore everything from the OT

And, here you go screwing it up

I specifically showed you that the OT is still to be followed, but that the NT (as Psy is telling you) is indeed different. There are very specific laws that no longer apply, and they are well documented

(well not everything, just the things you interpret as bad stuff, leave the good stuff like no homos or birthcontrol).

Well, actually, the NT is as against homosexuality as the OT. But, this is a really good example of how the NT is different - the punishment in the NT is internal to the person (Romans 1:27 "and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error"). It's a demonstration of loving the sinner while hating the sin, and the punishment being a reduced relationship with God. As for birth control, it is at best controversial to suggest BC is against scripture, and I personally am not of the mind that it is.

BUt christians dont do that. They dont turn the other cheek, they dont give more than what is asked by beggars, they dont love their enemies. the people who claim to be christians are the ones screaming the loudest to bomb 'over there' until nothing is left but glass and oil. The people who claim to be christians are screaming to kill em all and let god sort them out. Yeah, nothing to be confused about at all.

Wait, are you telling me that Christians aren't perfect?! Why, that's so completely different from what anyone has ever said!! I am shocked SHOCKED I tell you!!

so now you are saying there is a middle ground between what the OT demands and the love your enemies that Jesus demanded? Please go on, and make sure you back it up with applicable scripture

You're asking me to back up something I never said based on you saying I said it. I will not do that.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'll try it again, worded differently... we are NOT doing what we are doing because of their faith or our faith. They ARE doing what they are doing because of their faith. We are not attacking them because we are a bunch of Christian jihadists aimed at forcing them to convert. That is my only point in this whole discussion. You're trying to take me down a path that isn't anywhere near what I'm trying to say.

I'm not trying to take you down any path. As I understood the conversation, faith is CENTRAL to our issues in the ME whether we like it or not and that we are losing, begins, to me, with denying that. This is an existential fight and the sooner we understand that the better our chances.

 

[Midnightrider]

You're good so far...And, here you go screwing it up

I specifically showed you that the OT is still to be followed, but that the NT (as Psy is telling you) is indeed different. There are very specific laws that no longer apply, and they are well documentedWell, actually, the NT is as against homosexuality as the OT. But, this is a really good example of how the NT is different - the punishment in the NT is internal to the person (Romans 1:27 "and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error"). It's a demonstration of loving the sinner while hating the sin, and the punishment being a reduced relationship with God. As for birth control, it is at best controversial to suggest BC is against scripture, and I personally am not of the mind that it is.Wait, are you telling me that Christians aren't perfect?! Why, that's so completely different from what anyone has ever said!! I am shocked SHOCKED I tell you!!You're asking me to back up something I never said based on you saying I said it. I will not do that.

if they are very well documented, show me. thats what i have been asking for. Instead you get a lot of different INTERPRETATIONS.


this isn't about christians not being perfect, my point is about how christians pick and choose which parts of the OT to apply and which to ignore. You can interpret any part you want to apply, or any part to not apply. Christians most certainly do not live their daily lives by what you referenced in matthew and thats because thats not how they interpret that passage. They do not interpret that section to apply to their daily lives. In fact on most issues in that passage christians want to reach back to something resembling the OT rules.