There's Something About John McCain

B

Bruzilla

Guest
I was just watching MTP, and Russert has his favorite Republican, John McCain on, and McCain of course served his purpose and agreed with every attack on Republicans that Russert offered up. What I thought was interesting was when the subject turned to torturing prisioners, a subject that McCain is supposed to be very familiar with after being in the infamous Hanoi Hilton. McCain showed zero emotion about the subject, and I mean zero. He talked so matter-of-factly that I just couldn't believe that this guy had ever been at the Hanoi Hilton. Every other interview I've seen, or person I've talked to personally, who's been through that sort of thing reacts to some degree emotionally to questions about it, but McCain doesn't. It's all just a simple matter of human nature... questions about something troublesome instantly recall memories of the situation, which generate emotions... it's just not something that someone can stop from happening.

As I thought about the interview, I thought about all of the other times I've listened to McCain talk about the treatment of prisioners or the Hilton or the North Vietnemese, and I can't recall anytime when he's been really critical of the North Vietnemese or of what happened at the Hilton aside from the stock "It was wrong" type answers that any one would give. I've known a lot of guys who saw combat in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc., and they universally have some dislike of their former enemies and no matter how hard they try to contain it it always shows through at some points, like when they're being asked about a particularly emotional issue, which torture would be near the top of that list.

This got me to thinking that after watching McCain show no hesitancy in betraying his party now or in the recent past, betraying the religious right that have helped him so much in his political career, and betraying his first wife, why is it unlikely that he would have betrayed his country while at the Hanoi Hilton? Could the reason that he shows no emotion about torture is because he was never tortured? And could it be that he goes easy on the North Vietnemese because they know things about him that he doesn't want to become public knowledge?
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Bruzilla said:
This got me to thinking that after watching McCain show no hesitancy in betraying his party now or in the recent past, betraying the religious right that have helped him so much in his political career, and betraying his first wife, why is it unlikely that he would have betrayed his country while at the Hanoi Hilton? Could the reason that he shows no emotion about torture is because he was never tortured? And could it be that he goes easy on the North Vietnemese because they know things about him that he doesn't want to become public knowledge?
WOW, good point.. something worth thinking about for sure. WOuld agree with the emotions, and would wonder the same.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
I think it is because McCain is quite a bit different then most of those other POWs as he is and has been in the public light for some time and is obviously politicking for the Presidency. I think he has been conditioning himself to not react to things that normally set others off. It’s a matter of perception.

With that said I could be wrong and it could be as Bruzilla has touched upon that there might be some things that the North Vietnamese found out about him that he doesn’t want to get out.
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
Actually Bru, you are wrong on him not being emotional about it in the past. He has a history of referring to "guks", etc... in the media. You just aren't remembering it. He has just been talking about it long enough now that it probably is just another part of his political conversation. That is one of the reasons I don't like him. He used to be very Deanish. He would be collected and then all of the sudden he would go apeshit (not just over N Korea) and say absurd things.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
My point is that with the exception of people with severe psychological problems it is impossible to be asked questions about a situation as stressful as being a POW and tortured without an involuntary recall of those events and a subsequent reaction. Watch McCain the next time someone asks him about torture or being tortured... you'll see a stock response - it's wrong, it opens the door to our guys getting tortured, it's against the law, it makes us look bad, etc., but I challenge you to find where he's going through recall.

There's only two things that I know of that can cause a reaction like that. Either the person has a severe mental disorder or the person never went through the trauma. If you think my observation is selective recall, fine... but I challenge you to show me an interview where he's reacting like he should be.

I also can't get past the fact that this guy has been willing to sell out anybody to improve his own lot in life. I don't see a self-serving guy like this being any different when held as a prisoner.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
McCain Apologizes for ‘Gook’ Comment
But leadership competence thrown into question
By Jason Ma

Less than 24 hours after stories ran about Sen. John McCain’s statement to reporters that he would continue to refer to his Vietnamese wartime captors as “gooks,” his campaign announced Feb. 18 that he would no longer use that term. Three days later McCain issued an official apology.

Several stories that ran last Friday quoted McCain as saying “I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live… I was referring to my prison guards and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend.”

But after APIs blasted his unabashed use of the highly derogatory term that has historically been used against Asians and Asian Americans, the campaign made an apology after annoucing that McCain would no longer use the racial slur.

“I will continue to condemn those who unfairly mistreated us,” McCain said in a statement released Feb. 21. “But out of respect to a great number of people for whom I hold in very high regard, I will no longer use the term that has caused such discomfort… I apologize and renounce all language that is bigoted and offensive, which is contrary to all that I represent and believe.”

When this first happened, he got angry when people criticized him. Before that Presedential run, it happened other times. It is not all that sane to even spend a few days making a racial slur while running for President, much less defend it. Something else drove that. :yay:
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Ken King said:
I think it is because McCain is quite a bit different then most of those other POWs as he is and has been in the public light for some time and is obviously politicking for the Presidency. I think he has been conditioning himself to not react to things that normally set others off. It’s a matter of perception.
That may be the case. Here's another possibility--do military men regard being a POW as shameful? Do they regard being captured as a criticism of their fighting skills? I've never been in the military so I don't know what the military's culture is like.

I don't blame McCain for "betraying" his party, because I believe that no political party is worth anyone's loyalty in the first place. In my personal experience, parties don't care about the individual, they care only about enforcing some idea of political orthodoxy. And I don't accept the idea of orthodoxy by any organization, because I see orthodoxy as an attempt to control what people think and believe.
 
Last edited:
B

Bruzilla

Guest
I was a "POW" at SERE school for just two weeks, and I can tell you I still think those guys are a bunch of ####ing *******s and if I ever saw one of the instructors on the street I would do a lot more than call him a name. And they didn't do anything as compared to what POWs go through.

There's nothing shameful about being a POW... unless they voluntarily do something to help the enemy.

As for McCain's "gook" comments, I have no doubt he has no love for the North Vietnemese, but there's no real animosity there either.

What bothers me is that I've known so many guys who have gone through truly tramatic experiences like that, as well as quite a few posers, and the more I see of McCain the more I see a poser. As for party loyalty I agree with you, but what bothers me is that McCain's changes in loyalty always seem to coincide with events that benefit him personally. For example he hooks up with a hot looking lady and wife #1 is history. He's losing in the primaries against Bush and he comes out against the religious right in order to gain liberal and moderate voters. The polls are showing displeasure with Iraq and Bush's handling of the war, and who's the only Republican appearing on every newshow he can get his mug on so that he can bash Bush... and does this while planning to run for President? Sorry, but McCain's "selfless" bursts of being the "Bigger Man" only seem to happen when they'll benefit him. I can very easily see this guy collaborating with the North Vietnemese, and I'ld be willing to bet a year's salary that he was never tortured.
 

Bustem' Down

Give Peas a Chance
While I'm sure it's odd that he didn't show any emotion, you just can't really predict how people will react to certain situations. I'm pretty unemotional when it comes to death because I've had so many family members die when I was young, and people call me cold sometimes, but that doesn't mean I don't care about those people because I don't show emotion at a funeral. Human psycology is weird and I don't even think the people with PhD's understand it completely.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Manchurian Candidate!

This is simple:

All we gotta do is get Russert to ask the good Senator "...if he would like to pass the time by playing a little solitiare."

Then, when McCain shoots Russert live, on camera, we can ask him why he did that.



Moving on: Doesn't anyone remember the 2000 primary? McCain was running around, crying his eyes out in shame about how he 'felt' he betrayed his nation and his fellow POW's by doing that propaganda piece for the 'gooks'?

It wasn't much in all honesty and McCain and his handlers made sure the spin was that it wasn't national security breaching stuff and nothing that others hadn't done but it was clear that McCain simply wanted to defuse the issue with a few tears before it came up. I have no clue who would have ever brought it up as it would be political suicide to attack a POW, but, McCain apparently felt it was worth defusing.

Little reported was reaction from POW's; annoyance and anger. There was a code among POW's and it was, as long as you aren't betraying one another, guys behind the wall, you did what you had to do to survive. McCain betrayed that code with his little pity party.
 

Bustem' Down

Give Peas a Chance
I just think that his reaction is being colored by political opinion. If he wasn't in politics, people would just see him as detatched.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
That's what you're supossed...

Bustem' Down said:
I just think that his reaction is being colored by political opinion. If he wasn't in politics, people would just see him as detatched.


...to think.


Muhawhahahahahahah....!!!
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I seem to recall that, in the 2000 election, the MOST COMMON thing said about John McCain was that "he had a temper". He was *known* for losing it every once in a while, and it was one of the things people used to say made them think twice about voting for him.
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
SamSpade said:
I seem to recall that, in the 2000 election, the MOST COMMON thing said about John McCain was that "he had a temper". He was *known* for losing it every once in a while, and it was one of the things people used to say made them think twice about voting for him.

:yeahthat: And I remember it because originally I was for the guy and then I lost respect for him as he blew his gasket left and right. But now he has moderated... haha! Small pun...
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Bustem' Down said:
While I'm sure it's odd that he didn't show any emotion, you just can't really predict how people will react to certain situations. I'm pretty unemotional when it comes to death because I've had so many family members die when I was young, and people call me cold sometimes, but that doesn't mean I don't care about those people because I don't show emotion at a funeral. Human psycology is weird and I don't even think the people with PhD's understand it completely.

We're talking about two different things. You're talking about recalling emotions about what happened to someone else... which is another topic all together. What I'm talking about is recalling memories of horrible abuses that occurred to you personally. There's no real memories to be recalled in the former situation because there was no prolonged abuse or emotional suffering on your part. You lost someone, you felt sad, you moved on. Someone who was a POW usually has personally endured extreme pain, discomfort, anger, rage, humiliation, fear, etc., and they've usually felt these over long periods of time. I don't care how slick a politician you are, unless you're psychotic those memories will come back whenever you're reminded of those events, and you're going to show some reaction... and McCain doesn't.
 
Top