Think speed enforcement never happens for money?

[glhs837]

Think again..........came across this while researching one LEOs assertion that Hopewell, VA, which has exactly two miles of I-295 on its outskirts, was operating its speed enforcement activities for the money, not for safety. Came across this, posted minutes from a Hopewell council meeting.....

http://www.hopewellva.gov/Minutes/07-10-30 City Council Work Session.pdf

PROPOSAL FROM SHERIFF ANDERSON
Sheriff Anderson indicated that Judge Nye encouraged running selective speed law enforcement on the two miles of I-295 located within the City limits of the City of Hopewell. During the past month the Sheriff dispatched two deputies to observe speeds at that location. Speeds of 80 to 90 mph, or more, were commonplace. As a result, he has had a deputy writing speeding tickets on I-295.

The District Courts Local Revenue Summary, July 1, 2004 - June 30, 2005 - Fines and
Forfeitures:
Greensville General-J&DR $2,129,748
Hopewell General-J&DR $ 56,470
Sussex General-J&DR $ 442,117
The same information for July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006:
Greensville General-J&DR $1,997,953
Hopewell General-J&DR $ 70,983
Sussex General-J&DR $ 835,349
As you can see, Sussex County fines doubled in the one fiscal year. All fines go into the County or City treasury. The Sheriff and Judge looked at this long and hard. They set up an experiment of 100 October 30, 2007 cases over the last 30-40 days and 25-30 man hours. The speeding tickets netted the City approximately $25,000. 70-75% of those tickets (80 mph and above) are from all up and down the East Coast. The ticket
fine is $5.00 per mile over the speed limit. Of the 70% of the out-of-town tickets, 50% have been prepaid. If they come to court, the Judge is allowed to assess a much higher fine.


Sheriff Anderson requested two part-time deputies and one additional car. That eliminates the benefits package that would be required for one full-time deputy. The salaries would start at about $19,000 per year, and the cost of the car would be about $30,000. The cost of the salaries should all be paid for in the first 4-6 weeks of the program. They will probably bring in between $500,000-$1,000,000.

DISCUSSION: The tickets would be written for infractions on the two miles of I-295 located within the City of Hopewell. The Sheriff’s Department and the Police Department have many duplicate duties. The duties of the Sheriff’s Department are not limited to serving papers and guarding the courthouse. Since I-295 has been there, the Police Department has not run radar there. There are times when court ends early and the Sheriff’s Deputies have time and they can run radar. There was some Council concern about “speed traps.” But 80 mph and above could not and would not be considered a “speed trap.” There have been three fatal accidents on the South side of I-295. The Virginia State Police were happy to hear that the Hopewell Sheriff’s Department was out there with radar. If they do this on a permanent basis, they will need to develop a policy. There will be no high speed chases without contacting the Virginia State Police.
No additional clerical assistance would be needed to process the fines each year. Hopewell would have no problem with the staff they presently have. Chief Baxley indicated that the Police Department has no desire to run radar on I-295. They have no manpower to do it. They would be happy to help with the Pursuit Policy, however.
Judge Nye was commended for his foresight, safety and revenue binder. Page 2 of the handout explains the advantage of using Sheriff’s Deputies vs. Police Officers. Other localities write tickets at 77 or 78 mph. There is a problem with trucks on I-295. Two Council members travel 295 everyday and see speeding first hand. The Sheriff was applauded for his efforts. Perhaps some consideration should be given to earmark a portion of that money for Historic Hopewell Foundation. If there are serious problems with safety, perhaps they should be addressed at budget time. Four of the nine Sheriff’s Deputies are police certified and another will be in January

So, we dont seem to care if this makes anyone safer, we get two mentions, one of fatal accidents, but no mention of when they happened, or if they involved speeding, or even if they happened in that slim two mile stretch. Oh, and there is some unspecified problem with trucks, and quantified by two council members, but we dont know what that issue is, or gain, if its on the part of 295. We do see that they expect to clear over 400K a year, and that the Judge was commended for his revenue binder, most of the conversation is about the money........

 

[kwillia]

Speeds of 80 to 90 mph, or more, were commonplace.

Horrible. Hopefully setting up regular speed traps keeps the overall speed down.

 

[Clem_Shady]

I don't remember the name of it now, but you would have had a seizure over the little town just past Killeen, TX where Fort Hood is that made almost their entire annual budget writing speeding tickets on the highway that led to the base.

I think they only had like two or three cops, but 40,000 potential active duty customers each day.

 

[Clem_Shady]

Nolanville, TX: "From the time you enter the Nolanvill City Limits they get you everywhere. Especially along the highway. This place is so bad I am surprized it is not already on here. 20/20 even did a story about it because it is so bad. I got nabbed by the community center on a dead street/(10th street) with almost no normal traffic."

 

[glhs837]

Horrible. Hopefully setting up regular speed traps keeps the overall speed down.

My point in bolding that bit was to point that there wasn't any real data justifying this, just hearsay. We really don't know what the prevelance of folks going those speed, if in fact there were any.

I haven't heard of those towns, but they sound like Rome, I think it was in Ohio. Same thing towns entire budget was from the highway through town.

 

[Ken King]

Think again..........came across this while researching one LEOs assertion that Hopewell, VA, which has exactly two miles of I-295 on its outskirts, was operating its speed enforcement activities for the money, not for safety. Came across this, posted minutes from a Hopewell council meeting.....

http://www.hopewellva.gov/Minutes/07-10-30 City Council Work Session.pdf



So, we dont seem to care if this makes anyone safer, we get two mentions, one of fatal accidents, but no mention of when they happened, or if they involved speeding, or even if they happened in that slim two mile stretch. Oh, and there is some unspecified problem with trucks, and quantified by two council members, but we dont know what that issue is, or gain, if its on the part of 295. We do see that they expect to clear over 400K a year, and that the Judge was commended for his revenue binder, most of the conversation is about the money........

Old data, Virginia increased the speed limit along that section of I-295 to 70 last year. Now for 10 mph over, in that section, you get a reckless driving ticket too, that's where the real money is.

 

[Clem_Shady]

My point in bolding that bit was to point that there wasn't any real data justifying this, just hearsay. We really don't know what the prevelance of folks going those speed, if in fact there were any.

I haven't heard of those towns, but they sound like Rome, I think it was in Ohio. Same thing towns entire budget was from the highway through town.

You ever consider a move to Germany?

There's a few spots left on the Autobahn where you can still do whatever you want, but even most of it has been regulated down to 85 MPH or so.

 

[glhs837]

Old data, Virginia increased the speed limit along that section of I-295 to 70 last year. Now for 10 mph over, in that section, you get a reckless driving ticket too, that's where the real money is.

Yep, over 80 is reckless driving in VA these days. Most troopers will knock you down to 80, unless you are being stupid, but still a a risk. New data, over at the officer forums, an officer from a neighboring department says they now have four Chargers, and a Challenger who's only role is speeding on 295.


Clem, doesn't matter to me, I never travel that section, and if I did, my countermeasure would protect me, since they use radar And of course, I don't exceed 8-9mph over in any case.My point as always, that law enforcement for profit is never a good idea, and thats what this is. Better than scameras, but only barely.

 

[Clem_Shady]

Yep, over 80 is reckless driving in VA these days. Most troopers will knock you down to 80, unless you are being stupid, but still a a risk. New data, over at the officer forums, an officer from a neighboring department says they now have four Chargers, and a Challenger who's only role is speeding on 295.


Clem, doesn't matter to me, I never travel that section, and if I did, my countermeasure would protect me, since they use radar And of course, I don't exceed 8-9mph over in any case.My point as always, that law enforcement for profit is never a good idea, and thats what this is. Better than scameras, but only barely.

That's where you keep missing the point.

What's protecting us from you and your countermeasures when you finally eff up and hurt somebody?

You don't own the road.

You're not special.

You don't deserve to be able to speed.

 

[glhs837]

You don't need protection from me. You need it from soccer moms texting Johnny instead of paying attention. Or teen Sally telling teen Suzy how hot Johnny is. From people who think merging onto a 65-70mph freeway at 35 is just peachy.

You seem to have this image of me going 90 in a 50, weaving in and out of traffic. . Like this idiot....

YouTube - Weaving thrue traffic (Volvo S40 T4)


Just doesn't happen, I dont drive like that. If I do get a ticket, I take with no heartache, I know I have no right to speed, never said I did. Didn't say I was special. I do pay more attention to the road that a lot of folks I see everyday, and my vehicle is capable of much better handling and braking than most. Similar to the Mercedes that you are fond of, since most of it was derived from a Mercedes.

But those things don't make me special, just less likely to have an incident, which doest give me rights beyond any other motorist.

 

[Clem_Shady]

You don't need protection from me. You need it from soccer moms texting Johnny instead of paying attention. Or teen Sally telling teen Suzy how hot Johnny is. From people who think merging onto a 65-70mph freeway at 35 is just peachy.

You seem to have this image of me going 90 in a 50, weaving in and out of traffic. . Like this idiot....

YouTube - Weaving thrue traffic (Volvo S40 T4)


Just doesn't happen, I dont drive like that. If I do get a ticket, I take with no heartache, I know I have no right to speed, never said I did. Didn't say I was special. I do pay more attention to the road that a lot of folks I see everyday, and my vehicle is capable of much better handling and braking than most. Similar to the Mercedes that you are fond of, since most of it was derived from a Mercedes.

But those things don't make me special, just less likely to have an incident, which doest give me rights beyond any other motorist.

Well I'm glad to hear you're responsible, because the average person just wants their spouse, husband, or kids to return safely home each day.

And it's really sad that the people who try to do good things in this world like drive small cars to save fuel usually end up dead for their efforts.

 

[glhs837]

Its funny, because that average person you speak of, they pay more attention to the kind of food they feed their dog than vehicular safety. Which leads to way more folks not coming home, because in an an emergency situation, most folks at most make a token effort to swerve, lock up the bakes, and ride it in. The biggest cause of vehicular fatalities is folks just driving like crap, and when that fails them, they freeze and crash.

And driving a small car isn't a death sentence, its the kind of small car, and the manner driven. I would venture to say that Miata owners, as a class, suffer fewer fatalities than say Corolla owners. Because your average Miata owner is an enthusiast, who is more "in the game", and generally more cognizant of what the machine can do to get them out of a crash, rather than riding it into the crash. Avoidance is easier in a smaller car, all else being equal.

 

[Clem_Shady]

Its funny, because that average person you speak of, they pay more attention to the kind of food they feed their dog than vehicular safety. Which leads to way more folks not coming home, because in an an emergency situation, most folks at most make a token effort to swerve, lock up the bakes, and ride it in. The biggest cause of vehicular fatalities is folks just driving like crap, and when that fails them, they freeze and crash.

And driving a small car isn't a death sentence, its the kind of small car, and the manner driven. I would venture to say that Miata owners, as a class, suffer fewer fatalities than say Corolla owners. Because your average Miata owner is an enthusiast, who is more "in the game", and generally more cognizant of what the machine can do to get them out of a crash, rather than riding it into the crash. Avoidance is easier in a smaller car, all else being equal.

What advice would you have given the 16 year old Leonardtown H.S girl that died recently after being rear-ended by a Lincoln Town car in her Honda Civic on Route 5?

 

[glhs837]

I would need more details to see where she might have broken the accident chain. Possible theres nothing she could have done. Ah, found it, details are scant, so its hard to say. From what I do know, a more careful rear scan might have helped, but thats a guess. Stopping and assuming folks behind you are going to stop is common, but any motorcyclist will tell you thats a sucker bet.

But I dont know that being in a 2003 Honda made much of a difference. From the reports, she was hit from behind, then pushed into oncoming, where she was hit directly in the drivers door by a Honda Pilot. Not many vehicles will take a +50mph direct door hit and let the driver make it.

And yes, I know all else being equal, larger vehicles have an advantage in a crash. No debate on that point. My point was that someone who is raised with the mindset, and with the training to avaoid the crash is better off than someone who drives a tank and has no skills to avoid one.