Third QB rule...

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...the Bears bumped up against it yesterday when they stuck in Caleb Hanie.

Third quarterback rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Teams will be permitted an Active List of 45 players and an Inactive List of eight players for each regular-season and postseason game. Provided that a club has two quarterbacks on its 45-player Active List, a third quarterback from its Inactive List is permitted to dress for the game, but if he enters the game during the first three quarters, the other two quarterbacks are thereafter prohibited from playing.

Why? Just...why? I mean, it's just a dumb rule. Here's the justification;

The third quarterback rule was instituted for the 1991 NFL season in reaction to a 1990 game between the Washington Redskins and Philadelphia Eagles. In that game—sometimes called "The Body Bag Game"—Redskins lost both starting quarterback Jeff Rutledge and backup Stan Humphries to injuries. Without a third quarterback on their active roster, Washington had to either use a different player for that position or forfeit the game. Brian Mitchell, a running back who played quarterback in college, completed the game in the quarterback position.

And from that, a third qb rule was needed for...???

:shrug:
 

jsouthan

New Member
Not really commenting on the rule, but just saying that the Bears didn't really miss either of the other 2 once Hanie came in. Yes, he threw a pick there at the end, but he was moving the ball much better than Cutler did at any other point in the game. Pretty good for a rookie coming into a league Championship game.
 

Beta84

They're out to get us
...the Bears bumped up against it yesterday when they stuck in Caleb Hanie.

Third quarterback rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Why? Just...why? I mean, it's just a dumb rule. Here's the justification;



And from that, a third qb rule was needed for...???

:shrug:

Are you suggesting teams shouldn't be allowed to use a 3rd QB, or that the 3rd QB should be on the active squad if they plan on using him? Having 3 on the active squad is a complete waste, and if you're going to have the 3rd QB on the inactive list and then start playing him whenever you want, you're taking advantage of an extra roster spot that isn't supposed to be there. The intent is to not completely screw a team over if they suffer through some bad injury luck at the most important position in the game.

It would be bad for the game if the rule didn't exist and the 3rd QB had to be some guy who maybe played QB in high school. The only modification for the rule I could think of is that there needs to be injuries to both QBs (was Collins hurt?). Of course, you could always fake an injury to the other 2 QBs if you somehow decide you want to play #3.

Oh and they put Hanie in with 1 play left in the 3rd quarter so actually they were unable to use the other two guys as a result. Rather peculiar...I would have put in Collins (if he wasn't hurt), did a run play to end the quarter, then swap QBs. That way if Hanie was even worse, they had Collins as an option.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Are you suggesting teams shouldn't be allowed to use a 3rd QB, or that the 3rd QB should be on the active squad if they plan on using him? .

I am suggesting that there is no connection between the stated impetus for the rule, the Skins/Eagles body bag rule, and what the rule states.

What the hell does it accomplish? And how does it have ANY applicability to the body bag game?
 

Beta84

They're out to get us
I am suggesting that there is no connection between the stated impetus for the rule, the Skins/Eagles body bag rule, and what the rule states.

What the hell does it accomplish? And how does it have ANY applicability to the body bag game?

Perhaps it was the first time a team was left without a QB on its active roster to complete a game? It said both of the starting QBs were injured and they needed a 3rd QB. Are you referring to the part of the rule where if the 3rd QB plays before the 4th quarter, the other 2 can't come back? That's not the part of the rule they're referring to when referencing the game.

That game showed the NFL that they needed to make a rule to give teams a 3rd string option during games, just in case. The rest of the rule is to ensure they don't abuse it.
 

Otter

Nothing to see here
I am suggesting that there is no connection between the stated impetus for the rule, the Skins/Eagles body bag rule, and what the rule states.

What the hell does it accomplish? And how does it have ANY applicability to the body bag game?

Maybe I'm missing something in your question..but seems to me the Skins had to use someone that wasn't a QB because they were only allowed ACTIVE players. The rule provides the use of a QB in the unfortunate case where your 2 active QBs are hurt. I am not seeing your point, I guess.:shrug:
 

cattitude

My Sweetest Boy
Maybe I'm missing something in your question..but seems to me the Skins had to use someone that wasn't a QB because they were only allowed ACTIVE players. The rule provides the use of a QB in the unfortunate case where your 2 active QBs are hurt. I am not seeing your point, I guess.:shrug:

Brian Mitchell ...
 
I am suggesting that there is no connection between the stated impetus for the rule, the Skins/Eagles body bag rule, and what the rule states.

What the hell does it accomplish? And how does it have ANY applicability to the body bag game?

Because, the point of the rule (i.e. that you can have a 3rd QB that doesn't take up an active roster spot) is for it to be utilized in situations like that game, where a 3rd QB is needed (where, without this rule, a 3rd QB wouldn't be on a lot of teams' game day rosters). The condition that the 2 active QBs can't re-enter the game once the 3rd QB enters is an attempt to limit teams' ability to abuse the rule to just gain an additional active roster spot. The idea being, it would be hard to have a 'the first 2 QBs have to get injured for the 3rd QB to enter' rule - it would be all but impossible to enforce, teams could just pretend the QBs had injuries or that the injuries they did have were bad enough that they couldn't play. With the current rule, at least the team loses the ability to bring the other QBs back in - not a perfect enforcement mechanism, but better than nothing.

I was a bit surprised though, I had thought that the first 2 QBs weren't allowed to re-enter the game no matter when the 3rd QB came in (i.e. even if the 3rd QB came in in the 4th quarter). I think the NFL must have modified the rule at some point since it was originally implemented.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Because, the point of the rule (i.e. that you can have a 3rd QB that doesn't take up an active roster spot) is for it to be utilized in situations like that game, where a 3rd QB is needed (where, without this rule, a 3rd QB wouldn't be on a lot of teams' game day rosters). The condition that the 2 active QBs can't re-enter the game once the 3rd QB enters is an attempt to limit teams' ability to abuse the rule to just gain an additional active roster spot. The idea being, it would be hard to have a 'the first 2 QBs have to get injured for the 3rd QB to enter' rule - it would be all but impossible to enforce, teams could just pretend the QBs had injuries or that the injuries they did have were bad enough that they couldn't play. With the current rule, at least the team loses the ability to bring the other QBs back in - not a perfect enforcement mechanism, but better than nothing.

I was a bit surprised though, I had thought that the first 2 QBs weren't allowed to re-enter the game no matter when the 3rd QB came in (i.e. even if the 3rd QB came in in the 4th quarter). I think the NFL must have modified the rule at some point since it was originally implemented.

Better than nothing? This is a solution in search of a problem. Who care's about this, at all? How many times has ANYONE stuck their 3rd sting guy in sometime during the first three quarters only to say "Well, you know, let's go back to our 1 or 2..."
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Maybe I'm missing something in your question..but seems to me the Skins had to use someone that wasn't a QB because they were only allowed ACTIVE players. The rule provides the use of a QB in the unfortunate case where your 2 active QBs are hurt. I am not seeing your point, I guess.:shrug:

And they chose to only have to qb's so, isn't that their problem? I mean, I know the Skins would try and use the practice squad as a place to store quarterbacks but, so what? If they choose to not active the 3 for a game, oh well.

If anything, I see this as enabling. not limiting. It sounds like the directions three lawyers would write on the installation of a light bulb.

:shrug:

So, the Bears bring the kid in for one play at the end of the third, he gets hurt and, viola, they can't use either of the other two just because the Bears forgot one incredibly stupid rule.

That would be embarrassing for the league, I would think. I would quietly get rid of it this off-season to avoid that embarrassment.
 

Baz

This. ------------------>
And they chose to only have to qb's so, isn't that their problem? I mean, I know the Skins would try and use the practice squad as a place to store quarterbacks but, so what? If they choose to not active the 3 for a game, oh well.

If anything, I see this as enabling. not limiting. It sounds like the directions three lawyers would write on the installation of a light bulb.

:shrug:

So, the Bears bring the kid in for one play at the end of the third, he gets hurt and, viola, they can't use either of the other two just because the Bears forgot one incredibly stupid rule.

That would be embarrassing for the league, I would think. I would quietly get rid of it this off-season to avoid that embarrassment.

It would be incredibly embarrassing for the Bears. Seems their coaching staff were the only ones who didn't know the rule. Unless Collins was so injured he couldn't have handed off twice before the 3rd qtr ended. But I seriously doubt that was the case.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
It would be incredibly embarrassing for the Bears. Seems their coaching staff were the only ones who didn't know the rule. Unless Collins was so injured he couldn't have handed off twice before the 3rd qtr ended. But I seriously doubt that was the case.

You think all 31 other NFL coaching staffs would have known that rule at that time in those circumstances? Really?
 

Baz

This. ------------------>
You think all 31 other NFL coaching staffs would have known that rule at that time in those circumstances? Really?

I would hope so. That's a crucial part of the job, knowing even the obscure rules. Just like knowing you can't call 2 timeouts in a row, etc.
 

Beta84

They're out to get us
Better than nothing? This is a solution in search of a problem. Who care's about this, at all? How many times has ANYONE stuck their 3rd sting guy in sometime during the first three quarters only to say "Well, you know, let's go back to our 1 or 2..."
Since I'm a Dolphins fan, I'll give you some examples I've seen with them. This season they ended up using 3 QBs in a game. Their starter came out due to injury after a couple plays and the #2 took over. The #2 was hurt late in the 3rd quarter. Both QBs were listed as "questionable" to return. Instead of putting in the 3rd QB and forfeiting their ability to come back to the game, they ran a couple of wildcat plays to end the quarter, then put in the 3rd string QB. The other two QBs didn't come back in, but they only had the option since they waiting until the 4th quarter.

The Dolphins like to do a bunch of Wildcat crap so to start the 2009 season they typically had Chad Pennington start and used Pat White as their #2 QB because of his wildcat abilities. Then their #3 QB (Henne), who was really their #2, was on the inactive list. Without the rule, if Pennington was hurt then the Dolphins could put in Henne as their QB and still be able to use White, circumventing the inactive list and virtually giving them an extra player.

Now if you're wondering why they don't just allow the teams to have an extra roster spot only good for a 3rd active QB...well, I don't know! I think it relates to some teams only have 2 QBs on the roster (3rd one being practice squad) and not wanting to give one team more players on the active roster than another. Teams with 2 QBs on the roster being able to put another player in there wouldn't be a good option but I'll explain that just below...

And they chose to only have to qb's so, isn't that their problem? I mean, I know the Skins would try and use the practice squad as a place to store quarterbacks but, so what? If they choose to not active the 3 for a game, oh well.

If anything, I see this as enabling. not limiting. It sounds like the directions three lawyers would write on the installation of a light bulb.

:shrug:

So, the Bears bring the kid in for one play at the end of the third, he gets hurt and, viola, they can't use either of the other two just because the Bears forgot one incredibly stupid rule.

That would be embarrassing for the league, I would think. I would quietly get rid of it this off-season to avoid that embarrassment.

Typically there are what, 45 or so active players on the roster with an "emergency" 3rd string QB. Out of those 45 active players, usually 44 of them play. Who doesn't play? That 2nd string QB. So if you're already not playing your 2nd string QB, it's a gross waste of an active roster spot to have 2 guys sitting there. While most roster spots can at least be somewhat decently be played by other guys, QB is a special case and all-important to the offense.

If the Bears were stupid enough to bring him in for that 1 play at the end of the 3rd quarter and he got hurt then that's their idiotic fault. Like I said in a previous post, they should have used Collins (or any idiot on the team), handed the ball off to end the 3rd quarter, then put Hanie in to start the 4th. If Collins was still healthy then that would have been the smart decision.

You have to draw the line somewhere regarding when they can or can't use a player from the inactive roster (3rd string QB). Hopefully my example above demonstrates why they have the rule in place.
 
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