Trump on debt...

[TheLibertonian]

I'm 28. I remember getting socks and Reese cups for Christmas one year.

Both my parents work extremely hard in blue collar fields and while I'll forever be grateful of the skills I was taught (working on cars, building things with my hands, carpentry, etc.), I'll always remember my dad telling me NOT to follow his footsteps.

I worked in landscaping for many, many years throughout high school and after. Pay sucked, but I was always in shape and had a killer tan Went to school a year after graduating high school, took on student loan debt and got into the smart homes/home theater business, then the recession hit and no one wanted to drop that kind of money on TV's and speakers. I went to Community College, still paying off the previous student loan debt, took a class on AutoCAD and got into consulting/engineering. I've worked my way up from there to where I am now. All my student loan debt is paid off and any classes I take are paid for in full, out of my pocket. My wife is a local small business owner and we both own a home, a new car, travel, both have had 401Ks for years, and besides a car payment and mortgage (which we pay extra on both) we're debt free.

I do see many people, and many are young, that don't share the same "hard work pays off" mentality.

Except I'm not talking about young people, I'm talking about (mostly) 30-50 year olds who are "working poor".

 

[nutz]

So what was wrong with my posts. Go ahead, mister old school. Because I am not typing it out in formal essay format you can't understand it?

Start with the misspellings and move forward to grammatical error, you should be able to figure the rest out.

 

[Tilted]

Maybe I've misunderstood all along, weren't quite a few of the transfers from social security supposed loans to other programs?

It's all a loan of a sort. Whenever someone else holds your extra money - e.g. on account or through particular debt instruments - that's a loan of sorts. That's the way savings exist, as loans to someone or something else. (You can also save money as in holding on to actual currency, that's a loan of somewhat different nature; but for obvious reasons the Social Security program can't save its money in that way.)

But Social Securities annual surpluses weren't loaned to particular government programs, they were just loaned to the general fund in much the same way that people loan it money by buying U.S. Treasuries or Savings Bonds (one difference when it comes to Social Security is that the securities it buys are non-marketable, they can't be sold to someone else - that wasn't always the case though). When it comes to Social Security, that's what is required by law - and meaningfully always has been, since the beginning of the program. To the extent it took in more money through taxes than it needed to pay benefits and administrative costs, that extra money has always been required to be invested in securities backed by the U.S. government. Those securities get redeemed and more get bought. Until recently, Social Security ran surpluses such that the amount of holdings it had (its total savings) was increasing from new net deposits (so to speak) as well as from earning interest on existing deposits. Now it runs an operational deficit such that it is having to use much of the interest that it earns each year on its deposits. The total savings continues to grow a little bit because the annual interest that Social Security gets is more than the annual operating deficit, but that too will soon change. Then it will have have to start using some of its existing savings as well as the annual interest that it gets on those savings. That will carry it (under current rules) for a while, it will be enough to overcome the operational deficits for a couple of decades.

I've heard plenty of people lament that Social Security's surpluses - collectively, with its interest, its savings - have been loaned to the general fund. But I haven't heard any alternatives proposed that would seem to me to be better options. The savings have to be somewhere, they have to be held by something else (or invested in something else). The other options that I can think of all have pretty significant problems and risks associated with them, and likely would have far more perversive effects (on various markets) than loaning those savings to the government in general. I remain open to suggestions. I think we've debated some of them here in the past.

At any rate, the effect is that our national debt is owed in part to the Social Security program - the rest of it is owed to various other private and public entities. We have, over the years, borrowed a portion of the money that we needed each year to cover our deficits from the Social Security program rather than by issuing more U.S. Treasuries.

 

[Tilted]

Take Clem's thought and go one further to include survivor benefits. It was not uncommon practice for government workers to work part time gigs just to get their "40 quarters" and double dip. Two of those I knew, died at 67 and 72, their surviving spouses are in their nineties

Indeed, I thought about that when I read his post as well.

 

[Gilligan]

I do see many people, and many are young, that don't share the same "hard work pays off" mentality.

So do I. I count myself lucky or fortunate that, so far, three of my four kids have worked very, very hard to become successful and have done very well. Number four is getting there..just getting started.

I just got back from Miami yesterday...daughter #2 graduated with a masters's from FIU but is sticking around to get her PhD. She'll be 31 or 32 when she gets that. rouddad:

So yeah..there are obviously still "young 'uns" out there that are willing to work very hard to achieve goals they've set for themselves.

But I'll be darned if I can figure out why so many of them can still support Bernie Sanders. ??

 

[nutz]

Except I'm not talking about young people, I'm talking about (mostly) 30-50 year olds who are "working poor".

There are not any guarantees in life. Hard work and education are merely tools to a different way of life. An attorney explained it very simply to me, "a diploma is simply a key that may unlock doors to your future". More than a few of my associates have changed occupations to gain different things, i.e. better pay, better work conditions, better locale, etc. Your lot in this life is controlled by you. No one owes you a living, it's on you to figure it out.

 

[TheLibertonian]

There are not any guarantees in life. Hard work and education are merely tools to a different way of life. An attorney explained it very simply to me, "a diploma is simply a key that may unlock doors to your future". More than a few of my associates have changed occupations to gain different things, i.e. better pay, better work conditions, better locale, etc. Your lot in this life is controlled by you. No one owes you a living, it's on you to figure it out.

Which implies that everything is a flat, gray expanse with no hills and no pits and totally disregards the reality of local conditions and pure dumb luck.

So kids who graduated from Great Mills are treated exactly the same as kids who graduated from Leonardtown, right? Right?

 

[PsyOps]

Because I'm concerned about the state of our economy?

Here's the thing: Your dad, and when you grew up, was not this year.

This seems to be the underlying issue a lot of you producer-side-economist have. This is not the nineteen sixties. The cost of living has increased exponentially, whereas pay rates have increased linearly. Less and less money is in circulation in the middle class, and more is being held by fewer people, who spend it less. Money is simply not moving. When it does move, it disperses into the maw of corporate interest.

We've been chipping away at the buying power of the middle class and that is what's killing us.

If hard work isn’t the answer to your demise, what do you suggest the answer be? Or are you just doomed to failure?

 

[nutz]

So do I. I count myself lucky or fortunate that, so far, three of my four kids have worked very, very hard to become successful and have done very well. Number four is getting there..just getting started.

I just got back from Miami yesterday...daughter #2 graduated with a masters's from FIU but is sticking around to get her PhD. She'll be 31 or 32 when she gets that. rouddad:

So yeah..there are obviously still "young 'uns" out there that are willing to work very hard to achieve goals they've set for themselves.

But I'll be darned if I can figure out why so many of them can still support Bernie Sanders. ??

Could it be that too many of them try to equate financial status with real gain? Being able to pay for the things that one needs vs. the things one wants is a difficult concept for some of us.

BTW,
; as parents, you can't ask for more than what your kids are doing. You are a lucky guy.

 

[TheLibertonian]

If hard work isn’t the answer to your demise, what do you suggest the answer be? Or are you just doomed to failure?

Some people are doomed to failure because they are born in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's nature.

Why should we settle for nature telling us what to do?

You're still focused on micro-economics. Let me say this. Again. Since people continue to "Take it personally".

I am perfectly content with my lot in life, I have a goal, I'm paying my bills, and I'm pushing towards my goal slowly but steadily. My only gripe is the mandated health thing because it robs me of quite a bit of money per month.

Now can we start talking about macro-economics? We have people who start poor. In the past, it was much easier to save up and grow your equity and start to shift towards the middle class, if not for yourself then your kids. But the pay stagnated, and the prices increased, and the debt grew, and the economy shrunk. You talk about "Getting an education". How can you do that when you have to work two jobs to keep a roof over your head? How can you do that when you can barely read because your education system failed to teach you?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

So do I. I count myself lucky or fortunate that, so far, three of my four kids have worked very, very hard to become successful and have done very well. Number four is getting there..just getting started.

I just got back from Miami yesterday...daughter #2 graduated with a masters's from FIU but is sticking around to get her PhD. She'll be 31 or 32 when she gets that. rouddad:

So yeah..there are obviously still "young 'uns" out there that are willing to work very hard to achieve goals they've set for themselves.

But I'll be darned if I can figure out why so many of them can still support Bernie Sanders. ??

That's awesome. Congratulations to your daughter! Hell of an accomplishment.

(Though it does show your age )

Can't tell you why many young folks are feeling the Bern. Only thing I can think of is they want the world without thinking about how it'll be paid for.

Which implies that everything is a flat, gray expanse with no hills and no pits and totally disregards the reality of local conditions and pure dumb luck.

So kids who graduated from Great Mills are treated exactly the same as kids who graduated from Leonardtown, right? Right?

Have you ever worked for the Federal Govt.? Not being a smartass, just curious.

While I've never worked directly for the govt., I have worked with them. It almost sounds like that's the sort of working system you'd like to see everywhere. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, obviously) A system where everyone's work is rewarded the same way, in pay scale steps. Doesn't really matter if you word really hard, or don't. You get the same pay and same benefits as everyone else and it's pretty hard to get fired.

Personally, I don't want to see a system where hard work is essentially no longer incentivized. I don't want to see a system where innovators and hard workers lose that drive because they don't see a point anymore after working with and getting the same compensation as Joe Blow next door who plays Candy Crush all day.

 

[nutz]

Which implies that everything is a flat, gray expanse with no hills and no pits and totally disregards the reality of local conditions and pure dumb luck.

So kids who graduated from Great Mills are treated exactly the same as kids who graduated from Leonardtown, right? Right?

Hint,hint.....drop the chip, quit playing the victim. There are loads of options available for all to explore. You can move, go to school (trade, college, etc.), get an apprenticeship through a union, join the military, start a business, volunteer time to gain experience, go into politics, detail cars, etc. The only thing in this country that stops you is government paperwork (licenses, fees, forms,etc.)and you.

 

[stgislander]

Which implies that everything is a flat, gray expanse with no hills and no pits and totally disregards the reality of local conditions and pure dumb luck.

So kids who graduated from Great Mills are treated exactly the same as kids who graduated from Leonardtown, right? Right?

Hey Gilligan... didn't your two daughters graduate from Great Mills???

 

[TheLibertonian]

That's awesome. Congratulations to your daughter! Hell of an accomplishment.

(Though it does show your age )

Can't tell you why many young folks are feeling the Bern. Only thing I can think of is they want the world without thinking about how it'll be paid for.



Have you ever worked for the Federal Govt.? Not being a smartass, just curious.

While I've never worked directly for the govt., I have worked with them. It almost sounds like that's the sort of working system you'd like to see everywhere. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, obviously) A system where everyone's work is rewarded the same way, in pay scale steps. Doesn't really matter if you word really hard, or don't. You get the same pay and same benefits as everyone else and it's pretty hard to get fired.

Personally, I don't want to see a system where hard work is essentially no longer incentivized. I don't want to see a system where innovators and hard workers lose that drive because they don't see a point anymore after working with and getting the same compensation as Joe Blow next door who plays Candy Crush all day.

You're confusing hard work with well paying work.

I think you're inherently wrong.

I think people who are innovators and hard workers lose that drive because they work their asses off and get nothing. They get nothing. Their business is swallowed by a corporation, they end up working underneath a middle manager who knows how to brown nose.

Very few people who work hard and innovate become anything more then a cog, so what's the point in striving? Your "innovation" is owned by the corporation. Your business is driven under by them.

There's an old Dilbert comic where the devil offers Dilbert a deal. You can earn barely anything, but your work will be well appreciated and will help change the world; or you can earn good money, and your work will be burnt in front of you at the end of every day. His reply is "both of those are current then my current job".

 

[PsyOps]

Some people are doomed to failure because they are born in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's nature.

Why should we settle for nature telling us what to do?

You're still focused on micro-economics. Let me say this. Again. Since people continue to "Take it personally".

I am perfectly content with my lot in life, I have a goal, I'm paying my bills, and I'm pushing towards my goal slowly but steadily. My only gripe is the mandated health thing because it robs me of quite a bit of money per month.

Now can we start talking about macro-economics? We have people who start poor. In the past, it was much easier to save up and grow your equity and start to shift towards the middle class, if not for yourself then your kids.

But, if not hard work, what is the answer?

 

[TheLibertonian]

Hey Gilligan... didn't your two daughters graduate from Great Mills???

Wasn't my question or point. Many intelligent people have graduated from Great Mills, who've gone onto success. But locally, do people treat kids who went to great mills the same way they treat kids who went to leonardtown.

But, if not hard work, what is the answer?

I don't know, and that's the problem. Hard work should earn you rewards. It doesn't. So what do we do.

 

[Monello]

I just got back from Miami yesterday...daughter #2 graduated with a masters's from FIU

Which campus?

 

[Gilligan]

Hey Gilligan... didn't your two daughters graduate from Great Mills???

Indeed they did.

 

[Gilligan]

I think people who are innovators and hard workers lose that drive because they work their asses off and get nothing..

I've always heard those people called "quitters".

 

[Gilligan]

Which campus?

Modesto A. Maidique