Trump on debt...

[Gilligan]

I don't know, and that's the problem. Hard work should earn you rewards. It doesn't. .

Sure it does. All the time.

 

[Tilted]

But, if not hard work, what is the answer?

Hard work is part of the answer to a lot of questions. But it's rarely the only answer, or the only part of the answer. And hard work in and of itself does not, nor should it, ensure success. It's often necessary, nearly always laudable, but hardly ever in itself determinative.

You can, e.g, work hard even while you are working stupid. You can be bad at something - or bad in general - even though you work hard at it. In some cases, just working hard isn't enough to overcome being bad at something (or in general) or even enough to overcome bad luck or unfortunate happenstance. That's life.

 

[Gilligan]

You can, e.g, work hard even while you are working stupid. You can be bad at something - or bad in general - even though you work hard at it. In some cases, just working hard isn't enough to overcome being bad at something (or in general) or even enough to overcome bad luck or unfortunate happenstance. That's life.

There is always that, of course.

 

[Monello]

Modesto A. Maidique

When I took classes there in the early 80s there were only 4 building on campus

 

[Gilligan]

When I took classes there in the early 80s there were only 4 building on campus

FIU's growth has been explosive in the last decade. And they are still adding more schools...more curricula..

My daughter's PhD is going to be awarded by one of those new(er) schools: Steven J. Green School of International and Public Affairs. lol..dang that's a long name.

 

[philibusters]

Most kids today (I’d say kids up to about the age of 30) don’t even know what hand-me-downs are. Parents will put themselves in debt to make sure their kid had the coolest Nikes or the best cell phone. For Christmas/birthdays, we got what we needed (socks, clothes, etc…); rarely anything we really wanted. My bicycle was pieced together from parts I scrounged from people’s trash and dumps and such. This sounds sad to some; but this taught me invaluable mechanical skills. When I was in Jr High, I woke up at 3am to deliver newspapers, my dad was working as a general contractor, his company hired me over the summer to help some of the carpenters, roofers, and other workers. I learned how to lay shingles, measure lumber, use electric tools, and swing a hammer. I had to dig ditches, mix concrete by hand, and carry shingles up to a roof on a ladder. It was HARD-ASS work. Then I’d go home and mow lawns in the evening. I never really had summer vacations per se.

So, for me, it’s hard to understand this “I worked hard and was rewarded nothing” mentality. I was never expected to be ‘rewarded’ anything except a paycheck. This thinking carried me through my entire life.

I do think people are willing to take out consumer debt more readily to buy things like clothes and phones than they were 30 years ago, but I would also wager part of the reason why you observe less hand me downs on children is your rise from working class (lower middle class) to solid middle class. I am sure they are still a lot of hand me downs in working class families with lots of children.

The other thing is something that Larry and I have both alluded to throughout the thread topic. Things like clothes are cheaper today than they were 30 years ago (unless you pay for a name brand). You can buy a nice pair of generic jeans for $10 at Wal-Mart. Relatively solid quality. If you adjusted the prices from 30 years for inflation, a pair of jeans was probably more expensive. That is increased efficiency in manufacturing.

 

[Larry Gude]

Hard work is part of the answer to a lot of questions. But it's rarely the only answer, or the only part of the answer. And hard work in and of itself does not, nor should it, ensure success. It's often necessary, nearly always laudable, but hardly ever in itself determinative.

You can, e.g, work hard even while you are working stupid. You can be bad at something - or bad in general - even though you work hard at it. In some cases, just working hard isn't enough to overcome being bad at something (or in general) or even enough to overcome bad luck or unfortunate happenstance. That's life.

Or you can be working hard your whole life and enough changes happen around you, over time, that you were too busy working hard to notice, let alone understand, let alone know what to do about, that working hard becomes the reason for what becomes a very bad situation.

 

[Gilligan]

Or you can be working hard your whole life and enough changes happen around you, over time, that you were too busy working hard to notice, let alone understand, let alone know what to do about, that working hard becomes the reason for what becomes a very bad situation.

huh?

 

[LC_Sulla]

Or you can be working hard your whole life and enough changes happen around you, over time, that you were too busy working hard to notice, let alone understand, let alone know what to do about, that working hard becomes the reason for what becomes a very bad situation.

Agree. Then what? Destitution?

 

[Tilted]

Or you can be working hard your whole life and enough changes happen around you, over time, that you were too busy working hard to notice, let alone understand, let alone know what to do about, that working hard becomes the reason for what becomes a very bad situation.

Indeed. Hard work alone is not all that matters, and thats true in lots lots of contexts and in lots of ways.

Think about it. Quintillions of sperm cells have swam their tails off trying to get to the promise land and yet never got to be part of something that would go on to one day draw breath let alone grow up to have a chance to work hard enough to have a chance to be successful. Or happy. Or just alive.

Life's not fair and effort alone will not necessarily overcome that reality. Just ask the quintillions of forgotten sperm cells that put in the effort but never reaped the rewards. Oh wait, you can't ask them They don't even get to have the awareness needed to have thoughts on the matter.

 

[PsyOps]

Hard work is part of the answer to a lot of questions. But it's rarely the only answer, or the only part of the answer. And hard work in and of itself does not, nor should it, ensure success. It's often necessary, nearly always laudable, but hardly ever in itself determinative.

You can, e.g, work hard even while you are working stupid. You can be bad at something - or bad in general - even though you work hard at it. In some cases, just working hard isn't enough to overcome being bad at something (or in general) or even enough to overcome bad luck or unfortunate happenstance. That's life.

“Hard work” is really a relative term. What’s hard for one person is a joy to another. So, I’m a little reluctant to even rely on that as a means to define how success might be achieved through any measure of effort. I tend to think what makes work ‘hard’ is whether you love that work or not.

 

[Gilligan]

“Hard work” is really a relative term. What’s hard for one person is a joy to another. So, I’m a little reluctant to even rely on that as a means to define how success might be achieved through any measure of effort. I tend to think what makes work ‘hard’ is whether you love that work or not.

You have a point but...I happen to consider the word "hard" to have a very different meaning in the context of this discussion. To me, "to work hard" at something or "do a lot of hard work" is all about perseverance, dedication, focus, and many other things like that that combine to define a good work ethic. Not "hard" as in difficult, tedious, etc., although those certainly can describe some kinds of work too.

I've worked hard all my life. And some of that was hard work.

 

[GURPS]

... I'm talking about (mostly) 30-50 year olds who are "working poor".

wtf is working poor ?

 

[Restitution]

wtf is working poor ?

I would guess the meaning is those people who work hard every day at 1 or more jobs but, are barely scraping by.

To me... a job is a job. Whether you make $100 or $7 per hour. I believe that the "working poor" as I explained above should get first crack at assistance form the government. At least they are attempting to make ends meet and contributing....

 

[GURPS]

I would guess the meaning is those people who work hard every day at 1 or more jobs but, are barely scraping by.

To me... a job is a job. Whether you make $100 or $7 per hour. I believe that the "working poor" as I explained above should get first crack at assistance form the government. At least they are attempting to make ends meet and contributing....

I am earning approx $24 an hour ... for a single earner family of 3 this doesn't cut it
but I ain't begging the Gov. to ROB you at gun point and give to me

 

[Restitution]

I am earning approx $24 an hour ... for a single earner family of 3 this doesn't cut it
but I ain't begging the Gov. to ROB you at gun point and give to me

Still... some single earners are making 1/3 of that per hour!

I wouldn't mind kicking in a little extra to help those people out. Like I said.. at least they are making an effort and contributing.

 

[philibusters]

wtf is working poor ?

Somebody who is living paycheck to paycheck and is not living an expensive life style. There is no set dollar amount because $15 a hour in San Fran for a secretary supporting herself and her child may be scraping by, but for an 18 year old who shares an apartment with 3 other 18 years and lives in a low cost area (where say there one fourth of rent is only $250 per month) may be able to live a middle class life style off of $15 a hour.

I guess it is somebody who works 40+ a week at a wage earning job and who has very little disposable income after paying for essentials. Essentials being rent, basic utilities like electric, gas, water (but not things like internet or cable), food, and clothing for themselves and their dependents.

 

[This_person]

You're standing at the deep end watching all the drowning people, 'come on! Keep trying! Some of you can make it once there are enough dead to climb up and out over!"

That's what you advocate. People who can not over come their debt just keep on trying so some may make it on their carcasses.

You're back to a different subject - individual release from debt they've incurred. Would that come with a release of the #### they bought with the money to make up for it?

We're talking about Trump saying everyone should just shut up and stop asking us for the money they gave us back.

Either way, someone has to absorb the problems of someone else, and I can assure you it won't be by choice. What is THAT called?

 

[This_person]

But to him that's good for the economy. Somehow.

Loan me some of your money, then never expect it back. Tell me how that's good for YOUR economy.

 

[TheLibertonian]

Loan me some of your money, then never expect it back. Tell me how that's good for YOUR economy.

Right, the countries economy can burn but as long as the richest are fine the world is fine and we need not worry about it.