Trump Taxes

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
NYT Debunks Three Media Conspiracy Theories With Trump’s Tax Returns


Audit

Trump has said for a while that he did not want to release his tax returns due to an audit by the IRS.

Did he lie? Nope. The NYT admitted that Trump is in “a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses.”

Sure he could have released it. Trump said he could not, but it’s not against the law to release tax returns during an audit.

But the fact is Trump did not lie when he said the IRS was auditing him (emphasis mine):
And while the records do not lay out all the details of the audit, they match his lawyers’ statement during the 2016 campaign that audits of his returns for 2009 and subsequent years remained open, and involved “transactions or activities that were also reported on returns for 2008 and earlier.”
Real Estate

Let’s look at the other aspect of this supposed jaw-dropping report.

Stop conflating cash income and taxable income!!

I spoke to a friend in finance and he also invests in real estate. From what he could tell in the story Trump more than likely took his salary or income and put it all back into his businesses.

Plus, you have to know how real estate investing works. You want the returns to show depreciation. Again, I am no expert, but my friend has experience.

Depreciation is a deduction for income tax purposes, but it is a non-cash item. You do not pay out of pocket. It is a non-cash expense. It’s designed to show the true value of the asset because it wears down, whether it’s real estate, machinery, etc.

Accountants have to account for the lower value. Real estate investors generally welcome that and it’s honestly not a big deal.

My friend gave me this example:

Let’s say you own a building and it takes in $1000 a year in rental income. This is just for simplicity. But over the year I as landlord have to pay property taxes, insurance, utilities. Those are the basics. I have to send a check for those. Let’s say the total of those is $800 a year. So I make $200 a year in profit after I pay all expenses.
So in my pocket I have $200 at the end of the year. So In April I give all this info to my accountant to do my personal taxes. He looks and sees I made the $200 but he has to account for the one year of depreciation in the value of the property.
Let’s say the property depreciated by $300 during the year. So recording everything the depreciation is added to take expenses of $800 for a total of $1100 which means for tax purposes the property lost $100.
I still have $200 in cash though but I reduced my tax liability.
Because I show that the property lost money which offsets my taxes
The depreciation reduces your tax liability. The property lost money so it offsets your taxes.

The IRS only lets you offset a certain amount each year. However, you are allowed to carry over the loss until it’s used up.

A few people have told me that they’ve seen people with millions in carryovers.

But this is another reason why releasing tax returns is stupid and dumb. The returns tell you nothing. It does not tell a story. It does offer in-depth details.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Donald Trump Tax Records Show He Could Have Avoided Taxes for Nearly Two Decades, The Times Found


Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, records obtained by The New York Times show.

The 1995 tax records, never before disclosed, reveal the extraordinary tax benefits that Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, derived from the financial wreckage he left behind in the early 1990s through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

Tax experts hired by The Times to analyze Mr. Trump’s 1995 records said that tax rules especially advantageous to wealthy filers would have allowed Mr. Trump to use his $916 million loss to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income over an 18-year period.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member


As he settled into the Oval Office, his tax bills soon returned to form. His potential taxable income in 2016 and 2017 included $24.8 million in profits from sources related to his celebrity status and $56.4 million for the loans he did not repay. The dreaded alternative minimum tax would let his business losses erase only some of his liability.

Each time, he requested an extension to file his 1040; and each time, he made the required payment to the I.R.S. for income taxes he might owe — $1 million for 2016 and $4.2 million for 2017. But virtually all of that liability was washed away when he eventually filed, and most of the payments were rolled forward to cover potential taxes in future years.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
NO, YOU IDIOTS. THAT’S NOT HOW TAXES WORK. – AN ACCOUNTANT’S GUIDE TO WHY YOU ARE A GULLIBLE MORON


I posted that last night on Facebook, and sure enough, this morning my feed is filled with people who don’t know crap about taxes retweeting the stupid opinions of other morons who also don’t know crap about taxes. This is just as annoying as last week when these same idiots all suddenly became Constitutional Scholars. Or the month before that when they were all experts on use of force laws and police tactics. Or the month before that when they suddenly got their epidemiology degrees from the University of Internet and turned into infectious disease experts.

Holy crap, you Dunning-Krugerands are annoying. Of course the comments are all about the “morality” of paying your “fair share”. Which isn’t how any of this works in real life. Just stop it with your vapid hot takes already. You clearly have a child-like grasp of a complex topic, and your words are making America dumber.

As a former accountant, please allow me to explain why all of today’s newly formed tax experts are ****ing morons, and we should metaphorically put a brick in a sock and beat them over the head with it until they shut up.

I’m going to keep this blog post simple. I’m not going to get into any of the specifics of the leaked Trump taxes. Why? Because:

  1. We don’t know how full of crap the NYT is, and you don’t do taxes based on rumors and innuendo. You do taxes based upon financial statements and the company’s books.
  2. This crap is super complicated and my happy ass is retired and likes getting paid more money to write books instead of reading through thousands of pages of IRS regs.
So big picture time…

First off, “morality” doesn’t have jack crap to do with taxation. You pay what you legally owe. Nobody willingly pays the government more than they legally owe.

This has always been this way since America has had income taxes. There is endless court precedent. You pay what you legally owe. That’s it. If you pay less than you legally owe, then the government will fine or imprison you. If you pay more than you legal owe, the government will laugh and laugh, because you are an idiot, and you deserve to be poor.

Every single person who barks about how somebody else should be paying more? They themselves are paying the minimum they can get away with. As they should. As should you.




@gunsmoke
@Crabcatcher79

He's Talking to You .........
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
NYT ‘Bombshell’ Report On Trump Taxes Missing One Key Word: ‘Illegal’


In another section, the Times suggests that Trump “could have” improperly written off legal fees to Michael Cohen, but admits it has no proof. “[T]he materials obtained by The Times did not include any itemized payments to Mr. Cohen,” but the authors add suggestively, “The amount, however, could have been improperly included in legal fees written off as a business expense, which are not required to be itemized on tax returns.”

That sort of suggestive phrasing is the closest the Times gets to alleging anything illegal in Trump’s handling of his taxes.

Trump, for his part, is accusing the Times of participating in something “illegal,” specifically alleging that the documents on which the report is based were “illegally obtained.” The Times insists that’s not the case. “All of the information The Times obtained was provided by sources with legal access to it,” the report’s team of authors maintains.

In the same passage addressing the question, the Times admits that it has not been able to verify all of the documents referenced, only “portions” of them: “While most of the tax data has not previously been made public, The Times was able to verify portions of it by comparing it with publicly available information and confidential records previously obtained by The Times.” In other words, the entire report is based on partly verified documents.

The Times acknowledges that the documents they reviewed have their “limits” for fully understanding Trump’s finances:

The vast new trove of information analyzed by The Times completes the recurring pattern of ascent and decline that has defined the president’s career. Even so, it has its limits. Tax returns do not, for example, record net worth — in Mr. Trump’s case, a topic of much posturing and almost as much debate. The documents chart a great churn of money, but while returns report debts, they often do not identify lenders.
The paper also informs its readers that this “vast new trove” “contains no new revelations about the $130,000 payment to Stephanie Clifford, the actress who performs as Stormy Daniels” nor does it reveal any “previously unknown financial connection” to Russia.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
But a russian hoax was easier than a good IRS audit.

yeah the Russian Hoax relies on Fantasy Conjecture and OPINION and while there can be differing opinion on Tax Deductions between and account and the IRS - they are founded in something written and concrete - if sometimes written in a vague manner
 

gunsmoke

Active Member
NO, YOU IDIOTS. THAT’S NOT HOW TAXES WORK. – AN ACCOUNTANT’S GUIDE TO WHY YOU ARE A GULLIBLE MORON


I posted that last night on Facebook, and sure enough, this morning my feed is filled with people who don’t know crap about taxes retweeting the stupid opinions of other morons who also don’t know crap about taxes. This is just as annoying as last week when these same idiots all suddenly became Constitutional Scholars. Or the month before that when they were all experts on use of force laws and police tactics. Or the month before that when they suddenly got their epidemiology degrees from the University of Internet and turned into infectious disease experts.

Holy crap, you Dunning-Krugerands are annoying. Of course the comments are all about the “morality” of paying your “fair share”. Which isn’t how any of this works in real life. Just stop it with your vapid hot takes already. You clearly have a child-like grasp of a complex topic, and your words are making America dumber.

As a former accountant, please allow me to explain why all of today’s newly formed tax experts are ****ing morons, and we should metaphorically put a brick in a sock and beat them over the head with it until they shut up.

I’m going to keep this blog post simple. I’m not going to get into any of the specifics of the leaked Trump taxes. Why? Because:

  1. We don’t know how full of crap the NYT is, and you don’t do taxes based on rumors and innuendo. You do taxes based upon financial statements and the company’s books.
  2. This crap is super complicated and my happy ass is retired and likes getting paid more money to write books instead of reading through thousands of pages of IRS regs.
So big picture time…

First off, “morality” doesn’t have jack crap to do with taxation. You pay what you legally owe. Nobody willingly pays the government more than they legally owe.

This has always been this way since America has had income taxes. There is endless court precedent. You pay what you legally owe. That’s it. If you pay less than you legally owe, then the government will fine or imprison you. If you pay more than you legal owe, the government will laugh and laugh, because you are an idiot, and you deserve to be poor.

Every single person who barks about how somebody else should be paying more? They themselves are paying the minimum they can get away with. As they should. As should you.




@gunsmoke
@Crabcatcher79

He's Talking to You .........
Wow...keep spinning bot...keep spinning. You couldn't find anything from zerohedge or Brietbart?

So let me spell this out for you and your "expert. You should read the article, so should your "professional accountant". I'm pretty sure I understand this topic better than you do.

There is a difference between tax avoidance--which everyone attempts to do--and tax evasion which is illegal. The stink around Trump has been, for a very long time that he steps over the line into tax evasion. The Times article points out some highly questionable "strategies". Why don't you try proclaiming your home as an "investment property" and see how far you get. That one just leaps off the page.

There are valid reasons why an individual or corporation might have a year or two of significantly reduced taxation...but with Trump it appears to be a pattern.

You might also seek to compare his taxes to the average effective tax rate (go look that up too--and have your 'professional" accountant do so as well) to those in the same income level as Trump. Trump isn't just paying less in taxes than the janitor in one of his buildings he consistently pays less than those in the same income level.

The Times article also points out the huge personally guaranteed (go look up what that means) loans that are coming due. This is the bigger national security issue.

There is also the amount of foreign income coming in.

Like I said bot, you just keep spinning. It is obviously what you are paid to do.

Trump hid his taxes from the public. No other Presidential candidate has done that in 50 (?) years. Trump proclaims the Times report to be fake news. But he still hides his taxes. Why? Because those returns show exactly what the Times article says they do.

Trump has spent his life scamming everyone. Everyone of his idiot supporters has paid more to help defend this country under his Presidency than Donald Trump does...veterans doubly so.

The taxes also deflate the other fallacy Trumpians fell for: that he is some sort of magical businessman. He's not. He's a carnival huckster. He's in hock up to his eyeballs and is businesses are burning thru cash.

So go ahead bot, keep spinning. People like Vrai, who "read Trump's books" and was stupid enough to believe them, need you to help them validate their reason for living.
 
Reactions: BOP

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Fish in a Barrell :oldman:

There is a difference between tax avoidance--which everyone attempts to do--and tax evasion which is illegal.
Be Specific where has Trump been convicted of Tax Evasion ......

The stink around Trump has been, for a very long time that he steps over the line into tax evasion. The Times article points out some highly questionable "strategies".
Nice Fantasy Conjecture and OPINION ..... and you expect me to believe the IRS has not looked into Trumps Personal and Business Finances - its all so much mental masturbation from a bunch of haters trying to make a legal case out of some new papers OPINION - it is not a LEGAL Conclusion so it means NOTHING

Why don't you try proclaiming your home as an "investment property" and see how far you get. That one just leaps off the page.
I'm sure if I had Trumps accountants and money I would

You might also seek to compare his taxes to the average effective tax rate (go look that up too -- and have your 'professional" accountant do so as well) to those in the same income level as Trump. Trump isn't just paying less in taxes than the janitor in one of his buildings he consistently pays less than those in the same income level.
Did these mythical tax payers have the same losses and tax write off's Trump did, you keep acting like it is immoral to take LEGALLY Allowed Deductions ... if you don't like the LEGAL Deductions write your Congress Critter

The Times article also points out the huge personally guaranteed (go look up what that means) loans that are coming due. This is the bigger national security issue.
Again OPINION and a Nancy Pelosi Fantasy ......

You love this Trump Hating Mental Masturbation, why don't you write up some Fantasy Scenario where by Trump MIGHT be blackmailed or bought off to commit Treason ......

ya know the kind of illegal stuff Clinton Administration and Hughes Electronics Illegal transfer of Rocket Design Information

There is no way with Trump under such a microscope any such blackmail would or could take place ...

There is also the amount of foreign income coming in.
Yeah and ..... Prove it has ANY Influence on Trump ...
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
So the 750 thing is a load of crap. In the NYT article it says he filed for an extension, prepaid estimated taxes of a million in 2016 and 4.2 million in 2017 - and ended up overpaying, so instead of a refund, he applied it to future year payments.

So he paid his taxes. Reading the NYT article, you might get the impression he pulled a fast one, but right there in their own article, it explains it. He paid them.

Unbelievable.

Of course, Hunter notwithstanding, there's THIS nugget I saw this morning:


I'm not usually concerned about politicians who are rich when they go into politics - it's those who become rich AFTER they reach office I should be concerned about.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
So the 750 thing is a load of crap.

Basically .....

Yeah because of deductions for loses / expenses Trump's total liability was $ 750 bucks - they skip the part where Trump paid out 5.2 mil in 2 yrs because that would elicit the rage clicking on the article and drive ad revenue

it's not news, but all about click bait rage - anger generates clicks
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
When does the New York Slimes look in to why Al Sharpton owes millions and is walking around a free man.?
Let's see Nancy and Nadler's taxes, maybe the Schmucks too.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
What do the tax records reveal? The website DNYUZ.com has the helpful bullet points. Here are some of them:
-Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750
-He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service
-Even while declaring losses, he has managed to enjoy a lavish lifestyle by taking tax deductions on what most people would consider personal expenses, including residences, aircraft and $70,000 in hairstyling for television
-Ivanka Trump, while working as an employee of the Trump Organization, appears to have received “consulting fees” that also helped reduce the family’s tax bill
He also has lost a lot of money and owes a lot of money, according to the report. In other words, no crime has occurred. Trump’s fabricated reputation as a mob boss takes another hit. You’d expect the stolen financial information of a mob boss to contain something a little juicer than creative tax deductions. And the deductions aren’t even all that creative, on second thought. The media is making a lot of the fact that Trump deducted his hair styling expenses for television, but keep in mind that all of the media people panicking over this fact are doing their panicking from television studios that have professional stylists and makeup artists on staff. If any of them had to pay for it themselves, they’d be deducting it, too.

Across the board, it seems that Trump took advantage of the tax law to mitigate his tax liability as much as possible. You might argue that he shouldn’t be able to mitigate it that much, but that is an argument you must take up with the people who write our tax law. Trump is working within the boundaries of the law. The flexibility or unfairness of those boundaries is not something that can be morally or legally pinned on the people who work within them.

 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Don't you just love the moral outrage at Trump wanting to keep more of HIS OWN MONEY
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Ok - again to clarify because I don't run a business - there are actually two sets of issues? or just one? Does he file taxes separately for personal income, and also for various businesses?

I know people who are landlords - but they just own ONE house other than their own and they rent them out at a small loss, I assume in order to avoid "income" and to get something out of depreciation. I THINK they just do all this on their own personal taxes - they don't "run a business".
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Don't you just love the moral outrage at Trump wanting to keep more of HIS OWN MONEY
You'd think the whole "Warren Buffett pays less tax than his secretary" would have moral outrage but there isn't.

Of course, there's the creative way the Clintons did their charity -

151942


Six bucks for underwear - I hope unused.
 
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