Ukraine / Russia - Actions and Reactions

Hijinx

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
That's 31 less tanks America has for it's own defense.
How long does it take for replacement tanks to arrive?

How long will it take to teach the Ukraine soldiers to drive these tanks and learn to fire it's weapons and use it's advanced features? How long to train Mechanics to repair them and do required maintenance? Must we assume that Ukraine soldiers will be shipped here for that training.

This war is going to give jobs and work for Americans, the war industry loves it.
Meanwhile the American taxpayer is paying for it.
 
H

herb749

Well-Known Member
Hijinx said:
That's 31 less tanks America has for it's own defense.
How long does it take for replacement tanks to arrive?

How long will it take to teach the Ukraine soldiers to drive these tanks and learn to fire it's weapons and use it's advanced features? How long to train Mechanics to repair them and do required maintenance? Must we assume that Ukraine soldiers will be shipped here for that training.

This war is going to give jobs and work for Americans, the war industry loves it.
Meanwhile the American taxpayer is paying for it.
Click to expand...

You forgot the why are we spending so much on defense crowd. We keep giving away billions in weapons.
 
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Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Hijinx said:
How long will it take to teach the Ukraine soldiers to drive these tanks and learn to fire it's weapons and use it's advanced features? How long to train Mechanics to repair them and do required maintenance? Must we assume that Ukraine soldiers will be shipped here for that training.
Click to expand...
We already train them and have since 2014. U.S. Army Europe and Africa Command's 7th Army Training Command is pulling the bulk of the training and can do it in Europe. Those getting training on the Patriot missile defense system will be going to Ft. Sill for that.
 
LightRoasted

LightRoasted

If I may ...
For your consideration ...

Hijinx said:
That's 31 less tanks America has for it's own defense.
How long does it take for replacement tanks to arrive?

How long will it take to teach the Ukraine soldiers to drive these tanks and learn to fire it's weapons and use it's advanced features? How long to train Mechanics to repair them and do required maintenance? Must we assume that Ukraine soldiers will be shipped here for that training.

This war is going to give jobs and work for Americans, the war industry loves it.
Meanwhile the American taxpayer is paying for it.
Click to expand...

No big deal really. Some Ukrainians, but mostly paid merchs, Americans, Poles, etc., will be operating in this rolling coffin. The M1's that will be shipped are the older versions, and will be stripped of "secret" uranium armor with their classified depleted uranium. So they will be extremely vulnerable on the battlefield.

According to Politico, the export of Abrams with classified armor is forbidden as there are fears the tanks, if captured, could be reverse-engineered.
 
H

herb749

Well-Known Member
LightRoasted said:
For your consideration ...



No big deal really. Some Ukrainians, but mostly paid merchs, Americans, Poles, etc., will be operating in this rolling coffin. The M1's that will be shipped are the older versions, and will be stripped of "secret" uranium armor with their classified depleted uranium. So they will be extremely vulnerable on the battlefield.

According to Politico, the export of Abrams with classified armor is forbidden as there are fears the tanks, if captured, could be reverse-engineered.
Click to expand...


The Russians are buying up our stuff from the Taliban. They have the technology.
 
stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
For all you tankers out there... I don't know anything about the German Leopard tanks, but how long will it take to train up a bunch of (possibly non-military type) Ukrainians to properly use an Abrams tank?
 
Hijinx

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
stgislander said:
For all you tankers out there... I don't know anything about the German Leopard tanks, but how long will it take to train up a bunch of (possibly non-military type) Ukrainians to properly use an Abrams tank?
Click to expand...
I don't think I would want to be a tanker.
When you are in a tank you are in a target.
 
LightRoasted

LightRoasted

If I may ...
For your consideration ...

In the US Army. Job training for an M1 Armor Crewmember requires 22 weeks of One Station Unit Training for the M1A2 Abrams. And, each tank has a four man crew. The course includes, tank operations, armor offensive and defensive tactics, map reading and scouting techniques, and field combat strategy. And this is just the basic training in operating this tank.

So for the 31 Abrams we are sending, they need to find, and train, minimally, 124, willful souls to go on suicidal missions. These tanks infrared signature can be seen from space due to the turbine engine used to propel it.

If any Abrams tank is utilized in battle before then, minimum, in the next 6 months, we will know that it is not Ukrainians that are in those tanks.
 
Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
LightRoasted said:
f any Abrams tank is utilized in battle before then, minimum, in the next 6 months, we will know that it is not Ukrainians that are in those tanks.
Click to expand...
How so? Defense department has been training Ukrainians for almost a decade on a variety of military aspects and since last April 3,100 have been trained "with regard to equipment the U.S. is providing or has committed to provide." https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...ombined-arms-training-for-ukrainian-soldiers/

They might be ready to go as soon as delivery of the tanks is accomplished.
 
LightRoasted

LightRoasted

If I may ...
For your consideration ...

Ken King said:
How so? Defense department has been training Ukrainians for almost a decade on a variety of military aspects and since last April 3,100 have been trained "with regard to equipment the U.S. is providing or has committed to provide." https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...ombined-arms-training-for-ukrainian-soldiers/

They might be ready to go as soon as delivery of the tanks is accomplished.
Click to expand...

No where has it been said that we have been training Ukrainians on the Abrams platform. Sending Abrams is a completely new development.
 
Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
LightRoasted said:
For your consideration ...



No where has it been said that we have been training Ukrainians on the Abrams platform. Sending Abrams is a completely new development.
Click to expand...
I'll give you that it hasn't been "said", but then again a lot of things aren't said. Pretty sure the US has been inundated with requests from Ukraine for various forms of aid. And as you seem to know everything about just about everything, just how new is this development? Could it be that the US wouldn't even consider the "gift" of the M1A2 until a cadre of personnel had demonstrated that they can operate and maintain the platform first.
 
LightRoasted

LightRoasted

If I may ...
For your consideration ...

Ken King said:
I'll give you that it hasn't been "said", but then again a lot of things aren't said. Pretty sure the US has been inundated with requests from Ukraine for various forms of aid. And as you seem to know everything about just about everything, just how new is this development? Could it be that the US wouldn't even consider the "gift" of the M1A2 until a cadre of personnel had demonstrated that they can operate and maintain the platform first.
Click to expand...

There is really no way to know anything for certain. The west/US/NATO is piecemealing, incrementally, sending arms and weaponry to Ukraine. If everything was sent immediately at the start of the war to Ukraine, then that would have been the start of WW3 because Russia would have immediately countered with a full out escalation.

Ukraine hasn't been asking for anything, really. Don't believe the the BS theater propaganda we are getting from the media. The west/US/NATO started this from the very beginning. Zelenskyy is simply acting and playing his role and doing the bidding of his handlers.
 
HelloDave

HelloDave

Member
Would that be 22 weeks of peacetime training for soldiers who have only seen tanks in the movies, to include periods of the usual army bs like drill, PT etc?
In my experience, such peacetime military training is not a particularly intense. The training is based on a particular input standard, which usually is catered for the lowest common denominator.
Alternatively, would you be training pretty highly motivated soldiers already experienced in operating armor? More of a conversion course perhaps?
The blanket statement of Abrams appearing before 6 months not being crewed by Ukrainians smacks of more conspiracy theory quackery.
 
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