Understanding Democrats and Republicans 101

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Bruzilla

Guest
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/...27_lakoff.shtml

This George Lakoff guy is a US Berkley professor who is in DC teaching the Democrats how to frame their issues better. Below are brief thumbnail sketches of the core characteristics of Republicans and Democrats, framed as Conservatives and Progressives of course, that I think really hits the mark.

"Well, the progressive worldview is modeled on a nurturant parent family. Briefly, it assumes that the world is basically good and can be made better and that one must work toward that. Children are born good; parents can make them better. Nurturing involves empathy, and the responsibility to take care of oneself and others for whom we are responsible. On a larger scale, specific policies follow, such as governmental protection in form of a social safety net and government regulation, universal education (to ensure competence, fairness), civil liberties and equal treatment (fairness and freedom), accountability (derived from trust), public service (from responsibility), open government (from open communication), and the promotion of an economy that benefits all and functions to promote these values, which are traditional progressive values in American politics.

"The conservative worldview, the strict father model, assumes that the world is dangerous and difficult and that children are born bad and must be made good. The strict father is the moral authority who supports and defends the family, tells his wife what to do, and teaches his kids right from wrong. The only way to do that is through painful discipline — physical punishment that by adulthood will become internal discipline. The good people are the disciplined people. Once grown, the self-reliant, disciplined children are on their own. Those children who remain dependent (who were spoiled, overly willful, or recalcitrant) should be forced to undergo further discipline or be cut free with no support to face the discipline of the outside world.

"So, project this onto the nation and you see that to the right wing, the good citizens are the disciplined ones — those who have already become wealthy or at least self-reliant — and those who are on the way. Social programs, meanwhile, "spoil" people by giving them things they haven't earned and keeping them dependent. The government is there only to protect the nation, maintain order, administer justice (punishment), and to provide for the promotion and orderly conduct of business. In this way, disciplined people become self-reliant. Wealth is a measure of discipline. Taxes beyond the minimum needed for such government take away from the good, disciplined people rewards that they have earned and spend it on those who have not earned it."

Bingo! The only things I would change would be "... children are born bad and must be made good" to "... children are born ignorant and must be made good." The other is the bit about telling your wife what to do... he's obviously never been married to a Republican woman. Other than that I think he's got it!

I also love his views on taxes:

"Taxes are what you pay to be an American, to live in a civilized society that is democratic and offers opportunity, and where there's an infrastructure that has been paid for by previous taxpayers. This is a huge infrastructure. The highway system, the Internet, the TV system, the public education system, the power grid, the system for training scientists — vast amounts of infrastructure that we all use, which has to be maintained and paid for. Taxes are your dues — you pay your dues to be an American. In addition, the wealthiest Americans use that infrastructure more than anyone else, and they use parts of it that other people don't. The federal justice system, for example, is nine-tenths devoted to corporate law. The Securities and Exchange Commission and all the apparatus of the Commerce Department are mainly used by the wealthy. And we're all paying for it."

Interviewer: So taxes could be framed as an issue of patriotism.

"It is an issue of patriotism! Are you paying your dues, or are you trying to get something for free at the expense of your country? It's about being a member. People pay a membership fee to join a country club, for which they get to use the swimming pool and the golf course. But they didn't pay for them in their membership. They were built and paid for by other people and by this collectivity. It's the same thing with our country — the country as country club, being a member of a remarkable nation."

I love this guy! He just gets done telling the interviewer how important it is that we all give stuff away to take care of the poor and disadvantaged, then goes right into saying how it's every American's duty to pay their dues! The reason for this discussion was how it's wrong for Democrats to discuss "tax relief" as there should be no such thing. Taxes shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing, and everybody should pay them. But what he's really saying is that some of the "every Americans" should pay taxes and like it, while some of the "every Americans" get a free pass to the country club.
 
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Larry Gude

Strung Out
Well...

...if they were paying a guy to come in and tell them what they want to hear as oppossed to the truth, they got their moneys worth.

Democrats:

Well, the progressive worldview is modeled on a nurturant parent family

...you guys are all good, good hearted, good intentioned, compassionate. Huggers.


The other guys:

The conservative worldview, the strict father model,

...those guys beat their women, beat their children, beat their neighbors, beat everyone and everything. Hitters.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
This guy makes a lot of sense. You can definately tell when you go to someone's home if they are a nurturer or a strict parent. I am the strictest parent on the block, and yet all of the nurtured kids always hang out over here. I just had five kids spend the night last night. They are forced to behave, help out around the house, and can't get away with much of anything like they would at home. But I also treat them with respect and take time to talk to them about things that they are concerned about.

Maybe taken on a national scale, this is why more and more nortured Democrats are headed towards the Dark Side of Conservatism.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Bruzilla said:
This guy makes a lot of sense. You can definately tell when you go to someone's home if they are a nurturer or a strict parent. I am the strictest parent on the block, and yet all of the nurtured kids always hang out over here. I just had five kids spend the night last night. They are forced to behave, help out around the house, and can't get away with much of anything like they would at home. But I also treat them with respect and take time to talk to them about things that they are concerned about.

Maybe taken on a national scale, this is why more and more nortured Democrats are headed towards the Dark Side of Conservatism.
I think it's an interesting and somewhat appropriate analogy, but the description is pretty skewed. For example:
"The only way to do that is through painful discipline — physical punishment that by adulthood will become internal discipline."

I find that quite wrong. Discipline is not inherently painful or physical. All it is is setting limits, sticking to them, and enforcing them. Nurture within the limits, discipline when they go outside the limits.

The descriptions are that "nurturant parent" families are all sunshine and lollipops while the "strict father model" is hell on Earth.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
Might I suggest that you read the article that I have linked at the start of the string (if you haven't yet done so)? This guy specializes in framing speech, and he offers a good description of what that process is. He's using all negative framing words to describe one point of view, and positive framing words for the other, in order to invoke a response based on emotion rather than facts. But once you get past the framing, I think his words are a pretty dead-on assessment of Liberals and Conservatives.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Bruzilla said:
But once you get past the framing, I think his words are a pretty dead-on assessment of Liberals and Conservatives.
Ok, I read it to say that he's a pro at twisting words to make you agree with him...he's a master spin-doctor. Looks like it worked on you. :ohwell:

"These are not the droids you are looking for."
 

Railroad

Routinely Derailed
If the democrats have decided they need a dork like this dude to teach them how to put spin on their stuff, then they are hurting even worse than I thought.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
ylexot said:
Ok, I read it to say that he's a pro at twisting words to make you agree with him...he's a master spin-doctor. Looks like it worked on you. :ohwell:

"These are not the droids you are looking for."

No, he's not a spinmeister or doctor. Those folks take events and assess their outcomes in ways that are favorable to their cause. There's no shortage of spinners in the DNC. This guy is a framer, an expert on stirring emotions with words, which is different.

BTW, what is not written or said is more important than what is. For instance, he says that "So, project this onto the nation and you see that to the right wing, the good citizens are the disciplined ones — those who have already become wealthy or at least self-reliant — and those who are on the way." But notice that despite comparing/contrasting everything else, he fails to say "and to the Left wing, the good citizens are..." That's a very telling omission, and a statement that I doubt was left out by accident.
 

Lenny

Lovin' being Texican
Bruzilla said:
No, he's not a spinmeister or doctor. Those folks take events and assess their outcomes in ways that are favorable to their cause. There's no shortage of spinners in the DNC. This guy is a framer, an expert on stirring emotions with words, which is different.

BTW, what is not written or said is more important than what is. For instance, he says that "So, project this onto the nation and you see that to the right wing, the good citizens are the disciplined ones — those who have already become wealthy or at least self-reliant — and those who are on the way." But notice that despite comparing/contrasting everything else, he fails to say "and to the Left wing, the good citizens are..." That's a very telling omission, and a statement that I doubt was left out by accident.

One of his most telling truths is near the end of the article but the author avoids explanation.

Right now the Democratic Party is into marketing. . . They have no moral perspective, no general values, no identity.

Which is why it is so great that Howard Dean is setting their compass. Boy, oh, boy, this is gonna be a fun six or eight years for the non-licentious party!
 
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