Vatican disapproves of Ireland's gay marriage vote

Monello

Monello

Smarter than the average bear
PREMO Member
Didn't the pope mention a while back about the church being a bit more accepting? What a bunch of Gaelix.

A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland. The referendum that overwhelmingly backed marriage equality last weekend was a “defeat for humanity”, he claimed.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”
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[h=1]‘Ireland might just have become a great little country in which to be gay’[/h]
From the four corners of the globe the Irish came back to have their say in a historic referendum on gay marriage


</aside>The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.
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b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
I'm not catholic, but I agree with the cardinal's assessment. The pope's comments on being more accepting to the homosexual communi-tuh! just makes it that much more difficult for the rcc to stand up and support biblical tenets and teachings without hurting the pope's image. Something has to give - either follow scripture, or get a new Pope that will. A schism to follow?

The Protestant side of the equation has similar problems in some of our denominations as well, and they have divided many in the same congregations..
 
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Amused_despair

New Member
What I don't understand is why the Church is adamant about gays but so accepting about bacon, shellfish, violating the Sabbath, living in sin, multiple divorce and marriages, etc, etc? Why is gay the sin that is fixed on but the others are ok? Why not refuse service to someone who cheated on his wife and divorced her? Why not refuse service to someone who eats a bacon double cheeseburger/ Why not refuse service to someone who works on the Sabbath (and which Sabbath do we pay attention to? Saturday or Sunday?)

Seems to me that if the Vatican had done a better job handling the priests who caused all the scandals in Ireland instead of shuffling them around from church to church maybe the people of Ireland would care more about what the Vatican says. The Vatican turned it's back on Ireland long before Ireland turned it's back on the Vatican.
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
I use a lot of bacon on the oysters Rockefeller that I make. Am I in some kind of trouble?
 
Beta

Beta

Smile!
Amused_despair said:
What I don't understand is why the Church is adamant about gays but so accepting about bacon, shellfish, violating the Sabbath, living in sin, multiple divorce and marriages, etc, etc? Why is gay the sin that is fixed on but the others are ok? Why not refuse service to someone who cheated on his wife and divorced her? Why not refuse service to someone who eats a bacon double cheeseburger/ Why not refuse service to someone who works on the Sabbath (and which Sabbath do we pay attention to? Saturday or Sunday?)

Seems to me that if the Vatican had done a better job handling the priests who caused all the scandals in Ireland instead of shuffling them around from church to church maybe the people of Ireland would care more about what the Vatican says. The Vatican turned it's back on Ireland long before Ireland turned it's back on the Vatican.
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There are all types of sins that are equally called out in the bible. I don't know what the fixation is, other than perhaps it being something that people find more offensive than other sins. But as the bible says, "let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone"

Gilligan said:
I use a lot of bacon on the oysters Rockefeller that I make. Am I in some kind of trouble?
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Well, according to the bible, you're no better than a homosexual. But you don't see that being held against you. I think that's Amused_Despair's point.
 
Bavarian

Bavarian

New Member
The ban on ham and shellfish was Old Testament Mosaic Law that God The Son replaced with the New Covenant when He became Man and dwelt amount us. Men sleeping with other men like they would do with a women has always been condemned.

Divorced Catholics who attempt a second marriage are denied Communion, unless the previous marriage has been annulled.

The Church is being pressured to accept homosexual marriage just like Pop Paul VI was pressured to allow artificial Birth Control, but he held strong and artificial birth Control is still prohibited.
 
Beta

Beta

Smile!
Bavarian said:
The ban on ham and shellfish was Old Testament Mosaic Law that God The Son replaced with the New Covenant when He became Man and dwelt amount us. Men sleeping with other men like they would do with a women has always been condemned.

Divorced Catholics who attempt a second marriage are denied Communion, unless the previous marriage has been annulled.

The Church is being pressured to accept homosexual marriage just like Pop Paul VI was pressured to allow artificial Birth Control, but he held strong and artificial birth Control is still prohibited.
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This might be a stupid question, but you piqued my curiosity. You correctly indicate that the shellfish/ham was replaced with the New Covenant, but I don't know much about the New Covenant. What did it say, exactly? Did it specify anything about ham/shellfish, or even about homosexuality? Or is there somewhere in the New Testament that indicates homosexuality is still wrong?

Point being, the New Covenant seems to be a nice way of saying that certain laws don't apply, but then somehow other things still do (even though maybe they shouldn't). I'm wondering where that's spelled out.


Gilligan said:
I sure do like bacon though. And oysters.
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And that's OK with me! Wash it down with some swamp water. :yum:
 
stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Beta said:
Or is there somewhere in the New Testament that indicates homosexuality is still wrong?
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I guess you could start by diving into Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 1 beginning with verse 18. It seems that for every modern theologian that studies Paul and says homosexuality is wrong, there are an equal number that now say that is not necessarily what Paul is saying. I even had one pastor tell me that Paul was actually talking about "temple prostitutes" as they related to ancient Greek/Roman culture, and not loving monogamous same-sex couples.

It can be quite confusing.
 
Beta

Beta

Smile!
stgislander said:
I guess you could start by diving into Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 1 beginning with verse 18. It seems that for every modern theologian that studies Paul and says homosexuality is wrong, there are an equal number that now say that is not necessarily what Paul is saying. I even had one pastor tell me that Paul was actually talking about "temple prostitutes" as they related to ancient Greek/Roman culture, and not loving monogamous same-sex couples.

It can be quite confusing.
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Thanks for the reference. Indeed, interpretation can always be confusing. One site showed me verses 18-32 which seemed to cover what you were referencing. I think this is the part I had heard in the past...
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"

So people that covet, who are in any way malicious, envious, debate, deceit, malign, whisper (gossip), boast, proud, disobedient to parents, etc. ALL of that is covered under the same breath, potentially, as homosexuality. Which begs the question why the people whispering about homosexuals aren't condemned the same way homosexuals are.
 
stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
You can also look at 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 and 1 Timothy 1: 8-11 for additional references from Paul.

I don't know about whispering, but it seems that Paul is telling Timothy and the church in Corinth that they are to call out those who are doing all those things and either bring them back in line or expel them from the church. HC's commentary sites can provide further insight.
 
Radiant1

Radiant1

Soul Probe
Monello said:
Didn't the pope mention a while back about the church being a bit more accepting? What a bunch of Gaelix.
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I'm not sure if he said more accepting of homosexuality specifically, but it's the hate the sin love the sinner thing. The SS hates the sin and the Pope loves the sinner -- good cop/bad cop.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
stgislander said:
You can also look at 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 and 1 Timothy 1: 8-11 for additional references from Paul.

I don't know about whispering, but it seems that Paul is telling Timothy and the church in Corinth that they are to call out those who are doing all those things and either bring them back in line or expel them from the church. HC's commentary sites can provide further insight.
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That's part of the meaning of 9-10, the calling out and excommunicating those that do not repent.

But the 2nd part of v9 specifically refers specifically to homosexuals in two ways: "effeminate" - those that allow themselves to be used by others of the same sex unnaturally, and "nor abusers of themselves with mankind" - active homosexuals.

The church cannot allow any of that to go on with people inside the meetings. Paul was warning the churches concerning the current background, at that time, of unnatural sexual vices, homosexuality, incest, pederasty, etc., which were prevalent among the Romans and Greeks.

At least the thread is still on track.
 
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