Kerry apparently lied and coached other to lie too.
Vietnam Vet: I Lied About Atrocities
- Thread starter 2ndAmendment
- Start date
Surprise surprise.....
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
I've had enough of the baby boomers' pointless squabbling over a war that's almost 40 years in the past.
So has this guy, who's from the WW2 generation:
http://www.postwritersgroup.com/archives/brod0823.htm
So has this guy, who's from the WW2 generation:
http://www.postwritersgroup.com/archives/brod0823.htm
Too bad. The Democrats brought this up, now they have to eat it. Yum yum.Tonio said:
I hope you can too, but the Generation Xers need to get away from self indulgence and think of others before that will happen. The fight against big government is a fight against human nature. It is the fight against greed for money and power.Tonio said:
K
Kizzy
Guest
Boy oh boy, it just never ends with the Kerry clan.
Tonio...
The people in the middle in our public politics, the un-decideds, tend to say things like that. Can't we all just get along? This presumes equality of fault.
There is a matter of degree in all conflict, all the way from two guys bumping into each other in a bar, a complete, unintentional accident, no fault, to a convenience store robbery where one person has a gun and is robbing the place and the other is simply guilty of working there and goes home dead.
Rodney King was a damn usless, criminal, drug addict who endangered innocent people by speeding 100 mph through neighborhoods. That he got his dumb ass beaten for not submitting to the lawful authority of the cops bothers me not a wit. Why didn't they shoot him?
As a society we pretended old Rodney was some innocent angel caught up in the white man's scheme to beat a brother down for the fun of it because it COULD have been that way.
A jury rejected this manufactured fantasy.
George Bush served in the National Guard.
He was honorably discharged.
He has been accussed, with virtually zero evidence, of shirking his responsibilites for a period of time.
He has said he was young and dumb.
He has said what he has done as President matters most.
He has honored Sen. Kerry's service.
He has NOT brought up what he did as a young man in this race.
John Kerry served in the Navy and faced combat.
He was honorably disharged with a number of medals.
He has made this, what the did as a young man, the central theme of the Democratic National Convention, a convention designed to select a candidate for President of the United States, not debate team captain.
A HUGE number of people are swearing and have documents they claim PROVE he lied about his service.
Kerry has NOT honored W's service.
Kerry does not speak about his Senate record AT ALL.
Kerry is the the aggressor in this. He is also wrong. Wrong to emphasize 35 years ago. Wrong to not honor the Presidents service. Wrong to not answer the obviously valid, public, up front complaints of the swifties.
The way the media is lining up behind Kitty Kelly and forged documents and un named sources who are nameless out of 'fear of the entire Bush family' ought to scare the hell out of all of us. Never before has it been more obvious that we have a major media bias and that is dangerous. They put politics before reporting.
You can wish all you want for us to all get along but sometimes the offense is so blatant and so wrong that, yes, it does matter who started it and why.
John F. Kerry has made himself a devisive figure. John F. Kerry has made himself unfit for command and to wish both sides would just cut it out is to reward wrong and punish right.
I suggest the reason many in the middle are uncomfortable with the politcal fight is because they are uncomfortable with their own judgment; they do not want one side or the other to be clearly wrong...and not be able to discern this.
The only way to overcome this is to have the argument now, as openly as possible, based on the facts, because come November, we choose.
The people in the middle in our public politics, the un-decideds, tend to say things like that. Can't we all just get along? This presumes equality of fault.
There is a matter of degree in all conflict, all the way from two guys bumping into each other in a bar, a complete, unintentional accident, no fault, to a convenience store robbery where one person has a gun and is robbing the place and the other is simply guilty of working there and goes home dead.
Rodney King was a damn usless, criminal, drug addict who endangered innocent people by speeding 100 mph through neighborhoods. That he got his dumb ass beaten for not submitting to the lawful authority of the cops bothers me not a wit. Why didn't they shoot him?
As a society we pretended old Rodney was some innocent angel caught up in the white man's scheme to beat a brother down for the fun of it because it COULD have been that way.
A jury rejected this manufactured fantasy.
George Bush served in the National Guard.
He was honorably discharged.
He has been accussed, with virtually zero evidence, of shirking his responsibilites for a period of time.
He has said he was young and dumb.
He has said what he has done as President matters most.
He has honored Sen. Kerry's service.
He has NOT brought up what he did as a young man in this race.
John Kerry served in the Navy and faced combat.
He was honorably disharged with a number of medals.
He has made this, what the did as a young man, the central theme of the Democratic National Convention, a convention designed to select a candidate for President of the United States, not debate team captain.
A HUGE number of people are swearing and have documents they claim PROVE he lied about his service.
Kerry has NOT honored W's service.
Kerry does not speak about his Senate record AT ALL.
Kerry is the the aggressor in this. He is also wrong. Wrong to emphasize 35 years ago. Wrong to not honor the Presidents service. Wrong to not answer the obviously valid, public, up front complaints of the swifties.
The way the media is lining up behind Kitty Kelly and forged documents and un named sources who are nameless out of 'fear of the entire Bush family' ought to scare the hell out of all of us. Never before has it been more obvious that we have a major media bias and that is dangerous. They put politics before reporting.
You can wish all you want for us to all get along but sometimes the offense is so blatant and so wrong that, yes, it does matter who started it and why.
John F. Kerry has made himself a devisive figure. John F. Kerry has made himself unfit for command and to wish both sides would just cut it out is to reward wrong and punish right.
I suggest the reason many in the middle are uncomfortable with the politcal fight is because they are uncomfortable with their own judgment; they do not want one side or the other to be clearly wrong...and not be able to discern this.
The only way to overcome this is to have the argument now, as openly as possible, based on the facts, because come November, we choose.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Oops...
...that was my post.
Shared computer.
...that was my post.
Shared computer.
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
vraiblonde said:
And this is precisely why, if all this stuff about Bush was *ever* going to matter, the time for it was before he became President the first time around.
Because you see, the effect of this is, "if W becomes President, this, this is the kind of thing, this reckless frat boy, drunken, on cocaine, this irresponsible rich brat - this is the kind of thing you're gonna get".
Point taken. It's just only four years too late. He's already shown what kind of President he'll be, and I think he's done an outstanding job, especially given the circumstances thrown at him. If people feel differently about it, well then, I don't think dredging up what reasons he used to skip a physical for shipping off to Alabama blah-blah-blah......WHY does this matter? This is *news*? We *know* what kind of President he'll be --- we've seen it. Next thing we'll be hearing that he wasn't toilet trained until he was 5, and that he covered it up by blaming the dog. Who cares? Why should any of us?
Similarly, John Kerry's most significant criteria for the Presidency is that he captained a Swift Boat for four months 35 years ago. You know, he wasn't the only guy who fought in that war - if THAT is his best argument, he doesn't get my vote. 35 years ago? Geez, 35 years ago, the Beatles were still together, Nixon was newly elected, gas cost 35 cents a gallon and we just landed on the moon. 35 years ago, I was not quite nine years old. Ya think four months in '69 is more relevant than 20 years in the Senate?
When I go for a job interview, sometimes they look at my college grades. Yeah - they sucked. But that was over 20 years ago. I've done a *little* work since then, and THAT is what they want to know - can I do the job? My skills, recommendations, references and accomplishments since then tend to completely overshadow my mediocre college grades, especially since I program on PC's, and back then they hadn't been *INVENTED* yet.
Same goes for Kerry - as the song goes, "what have you done for me lately?".
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Give me some credit, Larry. I may be idealistic in some ways, but I certainly don't expect politics to be conflict-free.Larry Gude said:
As I see it, both sides in this election are not really debating the facts about Bush's and Kerry's war records. Those issues are just stalking horses for the issue of Vietnam itself. The baby-boomers will NEVER reach any kind of consensus about Vietnam and the '60s. Because of that, I think they're wasting their time trying to convert one another. Should they just agree to disagree? That sounds simplistic. They're so wrapped up in this dispute that they don't realize that the Vietnam War issue becomes less relevant to the rest of America every year.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Tonio...
...you can have all the credit you want if you see this thing as it is.
I don't know how to say it nicely but this thing is crystal clear and the hope now of the DNC is that, at best, people in the middle will see at as BOTH sides slinging mud now that the goal of making Kerry's war service central has blown up, rightly it seems rather clear, in their face.
Now, the Kerry plan B of disparaging Bush is blowing up on them as well so the argument must be that quicksand is the problem and not their inability to avoid it.
Kerry can simply say "I honor the Presidents service to our country" and do it as publicly and sincerely as W has done for Kerry.
Every bit of this is John Kerry and his advisors fault. They bear full responsibilty and I object to them trying to get out of it.
And to what purpose?
...you can have all the credit you want if you see this thing as it is.
I don't know how to say it nicely but this thing is crystal clear and the hope now of the DNC is that, at best, people in the middle will see at as BOTH sides slinging mud now that the goal of making Kerry's war service central has blown up, rightly it seems rather clear, in their face.
Now, the Kerry plan B of disparaging Bush is blowing up on them as well so the argument must be that quicksand is the problem and not their inability to avoid it.
Kerry can simply say "I honor the Presidents service to our country" and do it as publicly and sincerely as W has done for Kerry.
Every bit of this is John Kerry and his advisors fault. They bear full responsibilty and I object to them trying to get out of it.
And to what purpose?
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
At this point, I really don't care who started it. Why? Because neither Bush nor Kerry are to blame for the baby-boom generation being so deeply divided over Vietnam. You're exactly right that Kerry and his supporters did the wrong thing. To an extent, I would say the same thing about the Swift Boat group (not Bush himself). But even if Bush and Kerry were never born, the baby-boomers would still be squabbling over Vietnam. They were just looking for a fight. Something would have set them off. There is absolutely nothing that Bush or Kerry or anyone else can do to reduce that divisiveness. The baby-boom generation is a lost cause.Larry Gude said:
Yeah, that explains why this was such a big topic of conversation BEFORE Kerry brought it up.Tonio said:
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Vietnam and the '60s were a big topic in the 2000 election, although not nearly as much as this year. And certainly Clinton's draft-dodging was a big topic in 1992, the year that Marilyn Quayle gave the speech that Broder's column mentions This year is unique because of Bush's and Kerry's military backgrounds. Plus, I think the boomers are getting older and more set in their ways and less willing to listen the other person's side of things.vraiblonde said:Yeah, that explains why this was such a big topic of conversation BEFORE Kerry brought it up.