Voldman's testimony

Stjohns3269

Active Member
I watched as much of Voldman's testimony today and I have to say his account seemed very honest and believable.

This man has served our country for decades and has received
Purple Heart
Meritorious Service Medal 2x
Army Commendation Medal 4x
Army Achievement Medal 2x
Valorous Unit Award Navy Unit Commendation
Presidential Unit Citation (Korea)

His father was worried about him testifying and the possible retribution and he was asked about it:

Congressmen to VINDMAN: "Why do you have confidence that you can tell your dad not to worry?"
VINDMAN: Congressman, because this is America. This is the country I've served and defended, that all of my brothers have served. And here, RIGHT MATTERS.

I think we can all agree that is a very American sentiment and nice to hear.
 

Stjohns3269

Active Member
Ok Sappy, I give up...

who's Voldman and why should we care?

Sorry for the typo. I mixed up Sondland and Vindman.

Does that change his years of service to our country and the multitude of awards he has received? Or my opinion of how he presented himself today?
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
As I've said in other threads, Vindman's career is effectively over. It was before today, but today he pounded the remaining nails into his own coffin.

It won't be retribution; it will be the Army's realization that it has a real problem on its hands. Here are today's three nails.

First, Vindman's insistence on being addressed as "lieutenant colonel" rather "mister" while not reciprocating with Nunes' title* was brain-dead on his part. All he did with the Army (and the world) is provide proof that he is a pompous ass who is a bit too much in love with himself. If this wasn't clear as result of his "concern" over Trump's foreign policy goals (and his juvenile appeal to the "interagency") it became crystal clear today.

Second, if this following statement (he made about himself) is true - that "the Ukrainians" offered him the position of Defense Minister three times - then Ukrainian intelligence noted this self-love. Having worked in this arena circumstantially we have not a recruitment attempt (by Ukraine) to spy but an attempt to recruit an "influence agent." Ukraine had no interest in naming him DefMin; it was unadulterated flattery to get Vindman into their collective pocket.

Third, that Vindman admits to having "advised" the Ukrainian president is extremely problematic. This is a NO-NO. We "know" Vindman didn't get this "advice" pre-approved (i.e., received permission prior to him doing this) because it would have NEVER been approved. To the best of my knowledge no one has said they approved Vindman making this statement to the Ukrainian president.

Vindman is being used by the Majority. Wonder if he knows it. Has he run the "branches and sequels" of his actions so that he has a post-Army insurance plan? If I were his boss (or the senior Army 48E FAO) I'd run him out of town as fast as he can waddle as soon as this circus is wrapped up. He's not only a fool, he's a disgrace.

*Edit: I'm probably wrong here; that Vindman did use Nunes' correct title for the hearing (i.e., "Ranking Member"). However, that seems so artificial that it, well, rankled, me. Regardless, while I may have gotten this detail incorrect, I stand by my main point.

--- End of line (MCP)
 
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Hijinx

Well-Known Member
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and further entitled to give it here.

I just point out that Benedict Arnold had a stellar record also.
Ira Hayes received the medal of Honor and died drunk in a ditch.
Audie Murphy the most decorated hero of WW2 is rumored to like drink too much, not treat his wife so well and gambled to excess.

Being brave in war and serving well and faithful in our military does not mean people do not make mistakes.
It appears MR. Vindman made his share.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Sorry for the typo. I mixed up Sondland and Vindman.

Does that change his years of service to our country and the multitude of awards he has received? Or my opinion of how he presented himself today?
I'm sure you lapped up everything he said like pablum, Sappy.
 

Stjohns3269

Active Member
And now Volker who the Republican called as their witness just blew their case apart. By stating that “the allegations against Biden are self serving and not credible”. “They are conspiracy theories.”

this is going worse than I thought it was going to go and we have days more of this.
 

Stjohns3269

Active Member
As I've said in other threads, Vindman's career is effectively over. It was before today, but today he pounded the remaining nails into his own coffin.

It won't be retribution; it will be the Army's realization that it has a real problem on its hands. Here are today's three nails.

First, Vindman's insistence on being addressed as "lieutenant colonel" rather "mister" while not reciprocating with Nunes' title was brain-dead on his part. All he did with the Army (and the world) is provide proof that he is a pompous ass who is a bit too much in love with himself. If this wasn't clear as result of his "concern" over Trump's foreign policy goals (and his juvenile appeal to the "interagency") it became crystal clear today.

Second, if this following statement (he made about himself) is true - that "the Ukrainians" offered him the position of Defense Minister three times - then Ukrainian intelligence noted this self-love. Having worked in this arena circumstantially we have not a recruitment attempt (by Ukraine) to spy but an attempt to recruit an "influence agent." Ukraine had no interest in naming him DefMin; it was unadulterated flattery to get Vindman into their collective pocket.

Third, that Vindman admits to having "advised" the Ukrainian president is extremely problematic. This is a NO-NO. We "know" Vindman didn't get this "advice" pre-approved (i.e., received permission prior to him doing this) because it would have NEVER been approved. To the best of my knowledge no one has said they approved Vindman making this statement to the Ukrainian president.

Vindman is being used by the Majority. Wonder if he knows it. Has he run the "branches and sequels" of his actions so that he has a post-Army insurance plan? If I were his boss (or the senior Army 48E FAO) I'd run him out of town as fast as he can waddle as soon as this circus is wrapped up. He's not only a fool, he's a disgrace.

--- End of line (MCP)

Do you have a Purple Heart?

Do you believe there is any scenario in which it is correct to go against your commanding officer or the president?

His account has been verified by others. Do you believe they are all lying or being manipulated to coordinate their testimony?

Why do you believe they have not released the transcript of the call that would clear all this up and why was it moved onto it’s own server?
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
(a) Do you have a Purple Heart?

(b) Do you believe there is any scenario in which it is correct to go against your commanding officer or the president?

(c) His account has been verified by others. Do you believe they are all lying or being manipulated to coordinate their testimony?

(d) Why do you believe they have not released the transcript of the call that would clear all this up and why was it moved onto it’s own server?
(a) Nope. The events I was involved in (and that resulted in my injuries) did not "qualify" for the PH. Only those conflicts that are recognized as such allow the PH to be awarded. If you are a careful reader of my posts you'll find enough hints to more clearly understand what I'm talking (wrt the PH). Having said that, how is your question germane?

(b) Sure. When given an illegal order. And you'd better be sure it's illegal. Vindman's actions don't even come close. If it's not an illegal order your job is to say "Yes, Sir/M'am" and smartly execute. Vindman chose to do the opposite.

(c) Again, how is this germane? This isn't what I addressed. As far as lying, there is one spot in his testimony where he may not have lied, but he avoided the truth. If he didn't perjure himself he came awfully close (and if he didn't it's because he decided to play the Clinton "It depends on what you mean by is" defense). Not what the Army wants in an officer, btw.

(d) The full transcript has been released; if there was any doubt, it was cleared up today (by Williams and, ironically, Vindman). If you worked in this arena you would already know the answer to this (and if you did it then would be quite partisan to ask). If you didn't work in this arena, then my recommendation is to trust those who have (like me) when they say this is a #NothingBurger.

--- End of line (MCP)
 
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Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
(a) Nope. The events I was involved in (and that resulted in my injuries) did not "qualify" for the PH. Only those conflicts that are recognized as such allow the PH to be awarded. If you are a careful reader of my posts you'll find enough hints to more clearly understand what I'm talking (wrt the PH). Having said that, how is your question germane?

(b) Sure. When given an illegal order. And you'd better be sure it's illegal. Vindman's actions don't even come close. If it's not an illegal order your job is to say "yes, Sir/M'am" and smartly execute. Vindman chose to do the opposite.

(c) Again, how is this germane? This isn't what I addressed. As far as lying, there is one spot in his testimony where he may not have lied, but he avoided the truth. If he didn't perjure himself he came awfully close (and if he didn't it's because he decided to play the Clinton "It depends on what you mean by is" defense). Not what the Army wants in an officer, btw.

(d) The full transcript has been released; if there was any doubt, it was cleared up today (by Williams and, ironically, Vindman). If you worked in this arena you would already know the answer to this (and if you did it then would be quite partisan to ask). If you didn't work in this arena, then my recommendation is to trust those who have (like me) when they say this is a #NothingBurger.

--- End of line (MCP)
Poor Sappy can't wrap his head around all those facts. It would explode..
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
This man has served our country for decades and has received
Purple Heart
Meritorious Service Medal 2x
Army Commendation Medal 4x
Army Achievement Medal 2x
Valorous Unit Award Navy Unit Commendation
Presidential Unit Citation (Korea)
To be blunt, other than the PH this is the standard "rack" as to what we would expect Vindman to have at this stage of his career (wrt the MSM, ARCOM, & AAM). I'm a bit confused about the Navy citation; regardless, there's nothing really to it. The Presidential Unit Citation means nothing more than he was in a unit that was awarded one. I'd like to know more about this one because there are some rules. In any event, it's not anything special (99% of the time).

I would think folks would be trying to make a bigger deal about his CIB. That we're not hearing about it causes me to wonder (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this). That he doesn't have a Bronze Star (even the basic one; without a V device) may be why the CIB isn't being talked about (or am I incorrect; does he have a Bronze Star?).

That he has a Ranger tab is cool (wish I had one, but my branch didn't "require" it; for an Infantry officer it's pretty much required/expected). So is the Parachutist's badge (this one I have). But Airborne School just means you spent 3 weeks learning that gravity is real.

In other words, folks who understand this stuff know that's really all his rack is - standard in most, cool in others. Meaning nothing extraordinary (especially, as I noted, for an Infantry officer).

I'm not disparaging Vindman's awards; I'm (rightly) disparaging him.

--- End of line (MCP)
 
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Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
To be blunt, other than the PH this is the standard "rack" as to what we would expect Vindman to have at this stage of his career (wrt the MSM, ARCOM, & AAM). I'm a bit confused about the Navy citation; regardless, there's nothing really to it. The Presidential Unit Citation means nothing more than he was in a unit that was awarded one. I'd like to know more about this one because there are some rules. In any event, it's not anything special (99% of the time).

I would think folks would be trying to make a bigger deal about his CIB. That we're not hearing about it causes me to wonder (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this).

That he has a Ranger tab is cool (wish I had one, but my branch didn't "require" it; for an Infantry officer it's pretty much required/expected). So is the Parachutist's badge (this one I have). But Airborne School just means you spent 3 weeks learning that gravity is real.

In other words, folks who understand this stuff know that's really all his rack is - standard in most, cool in others. Meaning nothing extraordinary (especially, as I noted, for an Infantry officer).

--- End of line (MCP)
Awesome summary. And nothing a slug like Sappy could ever understand. Nor Cliff, for that matter.
 
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