Voter ID

[Gilligan]

But there is a huge bigger issue if the State(s) create a law which disenfranchises a large portion of the population - as in demanding voter IDs would do.

Link to your source for how 'large' that portion would supposedly be? TIA.

 

[bcp]

Link to your source for how 'large' that portion would supposedly be? TIA.

I just want to know how the liberals can come up with a universal health care program that is desgined to disenfranchise a large portion of the population due to requirements of ID.

I dont think we can do this health care thing until we figure out how to get the stupid of society some sort of identification.

 

[VoteJP]

Excellent.

Florida 2000 Presidential Election Popular Vote:
George W. Bush 2,912,790 48.85%
Albert Gore Jr. 2,912,253 48.84%

You telling me had Gore known beforehand that he would have lost the White House by 537 votes, that somehow there wouldn't have been a few more votes his way?

That fiasco in 2000 was not based on any individual fraud, and it had no relevance to the thread subject of "Voter ID" and in fact voter ID would not have helped the fraud in 2000 Florida.

Link = U.S. Commission on Civil Rights - Voting Irregularities in Florida During the 2000 Presidential Election

The 2000 election is relevant to voter fraud - yes, but not to voter IDs.


=========================

Link to your source for how 'large' that portion would supposedly be? TIA.

If you want to post some link(s) then do it.

If I had wanted to post a link then I would have done so.

So take your "thanks" and shove it.

 

[SamSpade]

I think we can see the liberal dream -

Universal government health care - and you don't need to show ID.

 

[Larry Gude]

That fiasco in 2000 was not based on any individual fraud, :

That is probably true. It's the organized fraud that comes from the individual lack of identification proof that worries me.

 

[Larry Gude]

I think we can see the liberal dream -

Universal government health care - and you don't need to show ID.

It's an interesting contrast;

On the one hand, the idea of America, the land of opportunity, where what you want to be is not hindered by who you are; it's about what you do.

On the other hand, cradle to grave dependency; what you do is meaningless.

 

[JoeRider]

The argument is against denying citizens their right to vote, and not against stopping the voter fraud.

Just like there being fewer wealthy people at the top of society, there is a huge number of very poor citizens at the lower and poorer level of society, so demanding the poorest citizens to buy an ID so that they can vote does disenfranchise the poor population.

The pile is getting bigger...get the shovel. Bottom line, if the disenfranchised need to cash a check, they would find that id in a minute. People against vote id are against it so that fraud can be perpetrated. Classic diversion tactic of the left to claim "denying citizens".

 

[SamSpade]

I guess what I've said before - this issue is framed on each side by two arguments.

On one, we have the desire to limit or eliminate fraudulent votes being cast - dead people voting, fake ID's, multiple votes cast. The argument given against is that it hasn't been shown that voter fraud would turn an election. More on that.

On the other, we want everyone to be able to vote, and the supposition is that voter ID would somehow suppress the vote, due to a requirement some would not be able to meet.

Now the *reason* I don't have any faith in the merits of the second argument is, people who need food and assistance and health care are almost always able to prove their identity to get what they need. I don't see any credible data that supports the notion that someone was unable to vote because they couldn't produce valid ID. It's even been suggested that requirement of ID would lead to some Nazi "papers please" kind of state where you can't do anything without ID. For one thing, I've been to countries like that - and there's no comparison. For another - you already can't do a lot of things without a requirement that you prove who you are. In the Nazi state comparison you are requesting permission from the state to go about your business - in the second, the government merely needs to ensure the process is honest, and you are not cheating others out of their vote by falsifying your identity.

I utterly reject the idea that voter fraud isn't bad enough on two reasons - one is there's never been a significant investigation to substantiate such a claim, since voter fraud so often escapes notice. The very best data suggests when voter ID is implemented, the number of votes cast has gone down.

Which is EXACTLY what you would expect to happen if a lot of those votes were faked.

The second reason I reject the argument that it isn't bad enough is because - it doesn't matter. Since when is criminal activity overlooked because - it's just not a lot of it? If someone goes to the polls and pretends to be *YOU*, they steal your vote even if the outcome is the same.

This past primary, someone almost pretended to be our attorney general and might have "stolen" his vote. That not only is a crime, it's a violation of the attorney general's right to vote. When someone commits voter fraud, they steal from other voters. It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect the election - it affects ME. If someone steals MY vote, it's a crime and I want it stopped.

 

[JoeRider]

Do you have a form of identification ?

maybe one of these are his:

15 Worst Attempts At A Fake ID Card

 

[JoeRider]

Perhaps you just do not understand the reality of truly being poor.

Perhaps you do not understand being stupid.

 

[JoeRider]

T
And yes the States want to deny the right to vote - while refusing to empower the right to vote.


:

Bottom line, my right to vote is denied because some illegal voted that should not have and his vote counts against mind. My vote was stolen! I am the one being denied. Lets start talking about putting things in prospective. My tax dollars and my votes are being stolen.

 

[JoeRider]

And in the spirit of stating things that are simply insults disguised as facts - the left wants to stop voter id in order to continue to rig elections. Imagine how hard it would be to win an election if you had to actually depend on real votes.

I think that is why they are against electronic voting machines too.

 

[JoeRider]

People in the 'hood don't got ID.

But they have guns!

 

[JoeRider]

Just for another point is that individual voter fraud is a very minor event with virtually no consequence to the actual elections.

As in a one hundred thousand (100,000) votes simply will not change the outcome of any major election, and that would have to be a lot of individuals doing the fraud which simply is not realistic.

A number like that would or could affect the smaller local elections as like the school board or the Judge election and even then only in the smaller population areas. And in smaller elections it is easier to detect the individual frauds, while in the bigger elections then a larger number of frauds is easier to detect and to catch, so an individual voter fraud is mostly an irrelevant issue.

It is like counterfeiting money as it is not a concern about people counterfeiting the one dollar bill ($1.) as any counterfeiting would do at least a $20 or a $100 bill because the larger counts more, but the larger bills are more closely scrutinized which makes them easier to catch.

So too a small time individual voter fraud is not a real issue in the elections.

But there is a huge bigger issue if the State(s) create a law which disenfranchises a large portion of the population - as in demanding voter IDs would do.

Can you say 2000 Presidential Election

 

[JoeRider]

I think we can see the liberal dream -

Universal government health care - and you don't need to show ID.

Everything is free and someone else is going to pay for it!

 

[SamSpade]

I think that is why they are against electronic voting machines too.

I'm not totally sure about how "fool proof" an electronic balloting system is, either. Any system I know of has been shown to be able to be cheated - if the people minding the store don't care about keeping it honest.

You remember the old booths where you turned levers and opened the curtains? Those were standard when I grew up, and I voted a few times with them. On occasion it was shown that the gears weren't tallying votes for some candidates. Plain old paper ballots? Without an identifying mark to show who voted, these have been faked in large numbers. Absentee ballots have been sent in without the knowledge of the person being impersonated. In the past, besides ballot stuffing, votes have been suppressed by simply "losing" ballots in districts where the voting was expected to go another way.

In districts where electronic scans of ballots have been used - sometimes more voters than there are registered somehow cast votes. Since votes are secret ballot (unlike petitions, where names can be validated), there's no way to know if any of the votes were legitimate.

Internet voting is almost certain to be hacked - the stakes are just too high.

But if the post-vote process can be secured - the process where the votes are tallied AFTER the ballots are in - the only way an election can be faked is for the votes cast can be faked. A Voter ID just about eliminates that problem. In fact, a sufficiently sophisticated ID could ensure that you could vote anywhere, since there's no reason why you would have to only go to your local polling place.

 

[JoeRider]

I'm not totally sure about how "fool proof" an electronic balloting system is, either. Any system I know of has been shown to be able to be cheated - if the people minding the store don't care about keeping it honest.

Yep, nothing is fool proof, but again, the outrage over them makes me think it is harder for them to cheat the system, so they are against it.

 

[Dev]

Electronic Voting Machines Elect Bender to School Board | Geekosystem

By exploiting a number of equally egregious security flaws, the team was able to get inside the system, block it off from other attackers, control the ballots, modify them to include SkyNet and Bender, and accomplish this all while remaining completely covert. As a victory dance of sorts, the team programmed the machines to play the University of Michigan fight song. Authorities remained unaware of the successful hack until a tester — who had just ruled the system “secure,” I might add — suggested they lose the music because it was annoying.

EBS is sooo secure...

 

[Merlin99]

I think that is why they are against electronic voting machines too.

Well I'm kind of against them also. They've been found to be hackable and generally don't have a way of providing for a recount.

 

[JoeRider]

Electronic Voting Machines Elect Bender to School Board | Geekosystem



EBS is sooo secure...

I read that along time ago. No different that the ballot box being stuffed.

During the course of the hack, the team, comprised of Professor Alex Halderman, and two graduate student sidekicks, found themselves having to break into the voting system’s terminal servers. Since the password and logon were both “admin,” it proved to be quite easy.


Since it is so easy to hack, then why are the liberals not for it? I guess there will always be fraud in election because there are stupid people out there that can't even secure the voting machine with a password.