VP debate thread

[vraiblonde]

Well, doggone it!



I thought she was fabulous and hit it out of the park. She was herself, with the pom poms and the flag waving, and that works for her. Much better than that "handled" thing.

I admit I am biased, but I watched with two friends: one who was very undecided but leaning Obama, and the other who was pro-Palin but expecting the worst. All three of us were impressed with my girl.

 

[vraiblonde]

facelift

My undecided friend noticed how smooth his skin is. He should have taken care of those eye bags while he was at it.

 

[Sonsie]

Well, doggone it!



I thought she was fabulous and hit it out of the park. She was herself, with the pom poms and the flag waving, and that works for her. Much better than that "handled" thing.

I admit I am biased, but I watched with two friends: one who was very undecided but leaning Obama, and the other who was pro-Palin but expecting the worst. All three of us were impressed with my girl.

Dawgonnit Sarah Palin is doing a spiffy job, you betcha. She sounds just like my people back home! Go Sarahcuda!

 

[vraiblonde]

Here's something funny:

I was watching with mAlice and Dye. After the debate, I called Larry and said, well? He replied that he thought Biden was much more composed and blah blah blah.

I was dumbfounded.

I said, here, tell Dye what you just told me.

Then she was dumbfounded because she saw what I saw - Palin taking Biden apart. It's amazing that anyone else didn't see that. She was confident, she was telegenic, she looked at the camera and at Biden, her answers were understandable. I thought she was great.

 

[vraiblonde]

I was disappointed with Joe Biden. It's no secret that I like him and think *he* should be at the top of the ticket, not that retarded Barack Obama puppy dumbell.

I think Biden has been handled and spent too much time trying to polish the turd (Obama) instead of being himself. He's on record as saying he's not digging Obama and doesn't think he's ready to be Prez, and it disappoints me that he's whored himself out to the VP slot.

Palin came across as opposed to McCain on a few issues, but felt she could work with him. Biden seemed like he was toeing the company line, and saying all the pre-approved crap that I'm so sick of. Had Biden been his usual self, he wouldn't have gotten his ass kicked so bad tonight.

If I were Joe Biden, it would embarrass me to be second banana to a newbie kid like Barack Obama.

 

[vraiblonde]

AND, while I'm ranting about whores, I don't like Joe Lieberman for the same reason. You fricken' believe something, then you'll go against it to be the VP candidate. For effing Al Gore, of all the godforsaken people.

Larry likes him. I think he's a whore.

 

[kom526]

I didn't get to see the debate, (somebody needs to earn diaper money) but it sounds like Palin "won" it handily. I don't know about some (or most) people but I think you should have a VP with some differing opinions from the Prez sort of to help keep him grounded.

 

[Bann]

Well, doggone it!



I thought she was fabulous and hit it out of the park. She was herself, with the pom poms and the flag waving, and that works for her. Much better than that "handled" thing.

I admit I am biased, but I watched with two friends: one who was very undecided but leaning Obama, and the other who was pro-Palin but expecting the worst. All three of us were impressed with my girl.

I'm biased, and I thought she did a great job, too! The longer I think about how she did, the more intense my pride gets. She went through absolute hell these last few weeks. The media has tried to hack her to pieces and she didn't get up there and whine - she showed them what she's made of!

Dawgonnit Sarah Palin is doing a spiffy job, you betcha. She sounds just like my people back home! Go Sarahcuda!

That's what I think really comes through, too. She's genuinely a nice person who is out there fighting the fight for the people. And she's an unapologetic, unabashed optimist - which I think speaks to more people in this country than the constant doom & gloom Obama's side has.

 

[Bann]

I didn't get to see the debate, (somebody needs to earn diaper money) but it sounds like Palin "won" it handily. I don't know about some (or most) people but I think you should have a VP with some differing opinions from the Prez sort of to help keep him grounded.

Very true! I think George Bush did this by picking Cheney. He wasn't like the timid lapdog type of candidates of the last few VP's.

 

[Bann]

If Palin doesn't have a stunning performance tonight, it's over for you righties.

Hey, Andy - where'd ya go? :

 

[Pandora]

Add to my prior posting

11. Denied Obama's stance on Diplomacy - they showed video that made it very clear Palin had that right - words out of Obama's mouth!!!

 

[tirdun]

10 historical things Biden got wrong...
1. McCain voted the same way as Obama on the budget resolution - March 14 and June 4, 2008 - McCain voted NO Obama voted YES and in that budget resolution it calls for tax increases for those making as little as 42K a year.

It's true that McCain voted opposite Obama (there were several votes, none of them binding), but the 42K number is misleading.

Obama voted for a budget resolution that would not have raised taxes without additional legislation. The vote called for returning the 25 percent tax bracket to its pre-Bush tax cut level of 28 percent. That could have affected an individual with no children making as little as $42,000. But a couple would have had to earn $83,000 to be affected and a family of four at least $90,000.

2. Under Obama people will pay no more than they did under Regan - under Regan top-rate 28% under Clinton 39 1/2 % and Obama wants to bring it back to 39% NOT 28%

I don't have any sources on this data, but I'm more concerned about what the middle brackets pay, personally.

3. He said it would take 10-years to get any oil under new production – it would only take a year or two in some instances.

In a few incredibly rare instances. The bulk wouldn't show up for a decade, and when it does, it won't have any effect. ANWR might decrease our demand on foreign oil by a maximum of 6%, and being 0.2% of the total world consumption, this will have barely any impact on the worldwide cost of oil.

As demonstrated here

4. He said use of force resolution in Iraq was not a war resolution – not an authorization for war – and it was

It wasn't an authorization for war in the traditional sense. There's no formal process to authorize a war. However:

Alberto Gonzales: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force.

5. He said McCain and Obama voted the same on funding the troops – Obama voted NO and McCain voted YES

Really, which time?
H.R. 1268 - Obama Yea McCain Yea
H.R. 2863 - Obama Yea McCain Yea
H.R. 4939 - Obama Yea McCain Yea
H.R. 5631 - Obama Yea McCain Yea
H.R. 1591 - Obama Nay McCain NO VOTE

Notably, McCain asked the President to VETO HR1591. So that one was the same, at least in opposition.

6. He said we are spending as much in 3-weeks in Iraq as we have in 7 years in Afghanistan – wrong

Cost of the war: Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress 2006

Iraq costs may rise to $100.4 billion in FY2006 to continue current military
operations, foreign aid programs, embassy support, and VA benefits. (P9)

Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan and other global (non-Iraq) war on terror costs)
Cumulative costs: FY01-FY06 88 Billion

100$B/4 * 3 = 75B. Whether or not the part of that 88B that's Afghanistan is actually = to 75B or not, it's not a drastic misrepresentation of the cost.

7. He said Article 1 of Constitution refers to the executive branch and it refers to the legislative branch

True, Article 2 defines the Executive branch.

8. He said there was a windfall profit tax in Alaska - wrong

Alaskans get quite a bit of money from Oil taxes. It isn't specifically defined as a windfall profit tax, but I believe Biden was making the point that they're profiting from oil while windfall taxes fail consistently in Congress.

9. He said there was a Nuclear Weapons Bill that Obama passed – wrong

Obama passed? What does that mean? He voted for it? He introduced it? In the first case, there are quite a few, in the second S.1977, which hasn't come up for a vote yet or H.R.2764 which passed the Senate.

10. McCain apposed Clinton on Bosnia – wrong

Oh, sure he did. H.R. 2401, McCain voted Nay and the President signed it. If you claim Obama voted against the troops because he had some reason to not like a funding bill, then McCain opposed Clinton on the genocide in Bosnia.

 

[dn0121]

Here's something funny:

I was watching with mAlice and Dye. After the debate, I called Larry and said, well? He replied that he thought Biden was much more composed and blah blah blah.

I was dumbfounded.

I said, here, tell Dye what you just told me.

Then she was dumbfounded because she saw what I saw - Palin taking Biden apart. It's amazing that anyone else didn't see that. She was confident, she was telegenic, she looked at the camera and at Biden, her answers were understandable. I thought she was great.

I see all these meetups on here to go out and have a good time, but are there ever ones to discuss politics and have a good time? There are a lot of intelligent people on here that don't get offended and loose their temper. It would be fun to have a meetup like that. I would love to get together with others and talk about real issues. We do it at work a lot at lunch but it would cool to do it over a brew (coffee or beer.)

 

[itsbob]

In a few incredibly rare instances. The bulk wouldn't show up for a decade, and when it does, it won't have any effect. ANWR might decrease our demand on foreign oil by a maximum of 6%, and being 0.2% of the total world consumption, this will have barely any impact on the worldwide cost of oil.


Disagree heartily with this one.

NOT a supply and demand pricing.. it's emotional, speculative. Just the THOUGHT of us drilling in ANWR will bring the price of Oil down, before a single drop of it hits the market, before a single drill bit even touches the soil there.

That's what most people don't get.. our economy, generally is based on emotion. The indicators may be good or bad, but what actually MAKES the market fluctuate is pure emotion.

By injecting the emotion of fear, you bring down the economy, just bringing in the emotion of hope, that we MIGHT have our own oil regardless of the true minimal impact will boost the economy, and drop oil prices.

 

[ylexot]

In a few incredibly rare instances. The bulk wouldn't show up for a decade, and when it does, it won't have any effect. ANWR might decrease our demand on foreign oil by a maximum of 6%, and being 0.2% of the total world consumption, this will have barely any impact on the worldwide cost of oil.


Disagree heartily with this one.

NOT a supply and demand pricing.. it's emotional, speculative. Just the THOUGHT of us drilling in ANWR will bring the price of Oil down, before a single drop of it hits the market, before a single drill bit even touches the soil there.

That's what most people don't get.. our economy, generally is based on emotion. The indicators may be good or bad, but what actually MAKES the market fluctuate is pure emotion.

By injecting the emotion of fear, you bring down the economy, just bringing in the emotion of hope, that we MIGHT have our own oil regardless of the true minimal impact will boost the economy, and drop oil prices.

True, but the other part of drilling in ANWR is that's it's not about price. It's about supplying our energy needs domestically.

 

[Pandora]

Tir,

Thanks for your response. I typed these EXACTLY the way they were stated and wanted clarity - they cut the comment session off and moved along with no further discussion and I hate when they do that.

On #1 - the misspoken she made was she said that $42K was on families whereas that starts with the individual/single taxpayer.

 

[itsbob]

6. He said we are spending as much in 3-weeks in Iraq as we have in 7 years in Afghanistan – wrong

100$B/4 * 3 = 75B. Whether or not the part of that 88B that's Afghanistan is actually = to 75B or not, it's not a drastic misrepresentation of the cost.


You weren't a math major were you!?

If you want to see how much a war cost for three weeks, you need to get the WEEk cost first 100B/52 = 1.92B

For cost of three weeks: 1.92 X 3 = 5.76B FAR cry from 75B (or nine MONTHS costs)

SO that was an out and out lie.. not a mistatement.. a lie.

Unless he too is REALLY bad at Math.

 

[tirdun]

Then she was dumbfounded because she saw what I saw - Palin taking Biden apart. It's amazing that anyone else didn't see that. She was confident, she was telegenic, she looked at the camera and at Biden, her answers were understandable. I thought she was great.

Here's what I saw.

Palin was congenial and ready to answer, but she was steadily reciting the same answers over and over to questions she wasn't asked. When she pulled the "maybe I'm not answering the way the moderator wants", it was more or less over for me. It's a debate, not a speech. She's proven she can give a speech, this was supposed to be a study of her as a potential national officeholder and a reflection of the man who would be President.

Time after time she pulled her "energy expert" card out of the stack, regardless of the question asked.

All that and the "gorsh" downhome stylings aside, I think she failed in the one category that actually mattered. That wasn't convincing Republincans to vote for her, it was finding those hesitant centrists and independents and proving that she could answer a question with facts and defend that answer. She's stumbled -badly- in the last few weeks and this did little but blunt slightly the damage of her atrocious interviews. I don't think that people who were on the fence are going to shift to McCain after watching this. There's no real net gain for Palin if she comes off as friendly but uninformed.

All Biden had to do was keep his toes out of his throat and not look like a giant bully. He managed to flub the correct Article of the Constitution dealing with the VP, but most people aren't going to catch that. His direct challenges to Palin were respectful and generally targeted toward McCain when he had to be sharp. At worst, he'll come off as forgetable, and that does no real harm to the Obama team.

 

[tirdun]

You weren't a math major were you!?

If you want to see how much a war cost for three weeks, you need to get the WEEk cost first 100B/52 = 1.92B

For cost of three weeks: 1.92 X 3 = 5.76B FAR cry from 75B (or nine MONTHS costs)

Not a math major, but I do understand that the value of 100B a month/52 isn't of much use. The yearly cost is 100B * 12 months, so 100*12 = 1200/52*3 = 70B

Oh, and the estimate for FY2007 and FY2008 is up to ~120B a month, but those are from sources other than the Library of Congress.

So is it a lie now?

 

[itsbob]

Biden kept harping on teh 4 BILLION dollar tax break for Oil.. and the 600 BILLION dollar profit..

How much do they spend a year in taxes now that they can GET a 4 Billion dollar taxcut?


What percentage of their total tax would 4B represent? Would that be like you and me getting a $500 incentive?

Besides $4 Billion relates to 16 off shore oil rigs thereabout?