Warriors v Cavs....

Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...first off, congrats Golden State. Well done. Great season. :clap:

My point here is to give props to LeBron. I was very scornful of him when he went to Miami, running away, from my view, from the challenge of fighting his way to a title in Cleveland which would then earn him the right to sit among the gods.

He didn't get it done this year but, man, they were not too far away and with their injuries, :clap:
 
Monello

Monello

Smarter than the average bear
PREMO Member
With a relatively small team on the floor at any 1 time, it's easy for a superstar to elevate a team. Decades ago the Celtics had a very long run of titles. Same with the Lakers and MJ's Bulls. The Spurs kept a decent team intact for a few years, winning several titles. It will be interesting to see how teams fine tune to make a playoff run next season.

With a decent draft an NBA team can rise in the standings in just a few years. Baseball & football it's a bit harder to field a consistent winner today. That makes the Patriot's success that much more incredible. Same with baseball. Some teams can go decades without sniffing the playoffs. With a large number of players on the field at 1 time, it's difficult for a star to elevate a team much more than a few extra wins per season.
 
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Larry Gude said:
...first off, congrats Golden State. Well done. Great season. :clap:

My point here is to give props to LeBron. I was very scornful of him when he went to Miami, running away, from my view, from the challenge of fighting his way to a title in Cleveland which would then earn him the right to sit among the gods.

He didn't get it done this year but, man, they were not too far away and with their injuries, :clap:
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Have you noticed the difference between the first time Lebron was on the Cavs and now? The difference is, ownership seems to be committed to paying the money necessary to help Lebron win. They wouldn't give him anyone to work with before. I still don't see how you can blame Lebron for leaving a team that was utter crap without him. Nobody in their right mind would have stayed. Cleveland needs to hold up their end of the bargain or he could bolt after next season.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Beta said:
Have you noticed the difference between the first time Lebron was on the Cavs and now? The difference is, ownership seems to be committed to paying the money necessary to help Lebron win. They wouldn't give him anyone to work with before. I still don't see how you can blame Lebron for leaving a team that was utter crap without him. Nobody in their right mind would have stayed. Cleveland needs to hold up their end of the bargain or he could bolt after next season.
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That's on him. If we review, Jordan face the same dilemma and raised holy hell, non stop, challenging ownership until they got him help.
 
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Larry Gude said:
That's on him. If we review, Jordan face the same dilemma and raised holy hell, non stop, challenging ownership until they got him help.
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Let's review then:

85 season: Jordan drafted, rest of the team sucks.
86: Oakley (draft) and Paxson were added. MJ hurt this year? Seemed to be limited in games played.
87: nobody added
88: added Pippen (draft) and Grant (draft)
89: added Cartwright & Perdue (draft), dumped Oakley
90: added Armstrong (draft)
91: nobody added [won title]
92: nobody added [won title]
93: nobody added [won title]
94: retired at 31 (because, you know, he was so dedicated). Kukoc & Kerr added. Not MJ related.
95: still retired. Longley, Harper added. Not MJ related.
96: Rodman added. [won title]
97: nobody added [won title]
98: nobody added [won title]
99: retired at 36 (before coming back with the Wiz...)

------------
04 season: Lebron drafted, but this team had Carlos Boozer, Ricky Davis, and Ilgauskas.
05: Boozer and Davis gone. Gooden added.
06: Hughes added.
07: Varejao added.
08: Wallace & Marshall added.
09: Williams & Szczerbiak added. Gooden, Hughes, & Marshall gone.
10: O'Neal, Jamison, & Telfair added. Szczerbiak & Wallace gone.
11: Lebron gone.


From what I can tell, the Bulls mostly built through the draft. The big pickup during MJ's 1st tenure that wasn't via the draft was Paxson (as a trade I think). When MJ retired (at the ripe old age of 31...because he was so dedicated), they picked up a few players. Once he came back, only Rodman was added. Then he retired again before going on to play for the Wiz. I don't see much dedication from MJ -- what I DO see is a team that had much better players put together so Jordan could be incredibly competitive, with a solid supporting cast, that won in his 7th year.

With Lebron, not a single decent player was added via the draft. Most of the veterans added were too old, or there was only one decent player added and not much else. You can only deal with that for so long. I'm pretty sure the failed attempt at winning with O'Neal and Jamison was the last straw. And by the way, Jordan quit on the Bulls twice. So it's not like Lebron leaving after 7 years tarnishes his legacy any more than Jordan ditching the Bulls 2x. In 10 years, someone will look at the next superstar and criticize them for not being like Lebron, because Lebron's career will take on some kind of larger-than-life status too, just like MJ's has in your perception.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Beta said:
With Lebron, not a single decent player was added via the draft. Most of the veterans added were too old, or there was only one decent player added and not much else. You can only deal with that for so long. I'm pretty sure the failed attempt at winning with O'Neal and Jamison was the last straw. And by the way, Jordan quit on the Bulls twice. So it's not like Lebron leaving after 7 years tarnishes his legacy any more than Jordan ditching the Bulls 2x. In 10 years, someone will look at the next superstar and criticize them for not being like Lebron, because Lebron's career will take on some kind of larger-than-life status too, just like MJ's has in your perception.
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Ok, we have the top two picks, Jordan and LaBron on are on the board. You get first pick.

:popcorn:
 
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Grumpy said:
Knowing what I know now, Jordan. Not knowing how they would develop as rookies coming into the league, Lebron.
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Exactly. If MJ, coming out of college, was such a great prospect (like the "once in a generation" Lebron), he would have been #1 overall in his draft. Since he wasn't, I'm sure Lebron would have been the pick.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
:tap:

KNOWING what we know now, both of them rookies. No one else on the board but one legged nuns whose only experience was working at Ihop NOR anyone else on your team as of yet. :tantrum:
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Beta said:
Stanley Cup finals? College World Series?

Some NFL teams held mini-camp this week. That's probably the biggest sports story of the week. :coffee:
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Oh - was aware of those other sports you mentioned. Me suspects you are referring to that league that I'd rather watch badminton or criquet from Bangladesh then those guys. Poor Cleveland.:evil:
 
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Larry Gude said:
:tap:

KNOWING what we know now, both of them rookies. No one else on the board but one legged nuns whose only experience was working at Ihop NOR anyone else on your team as of yet. :tantrum:
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back to my first answer then...that's how I originally answered the question. There's no question that MJ has had more success through his career than Lebron has had to this point. It would be hard not to pick MJ. BUT, my point of Lebron's career not being over is that there's always a chance he can improve his career to equal or surpass MJ. But until that happens, you have to stick with MJ.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Beta said:
back to my first answer then...that's how I originally answered the question. There's no question that MJ has had more success through his career than Lebron has had to this point. It would be hard not to pick MJ. BUT, my point of Lebron's career not being over is that there's always a chance he can improve his career to equal or surpass MJ. But until that happens, you have to stick with MJ.
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In my view, Jordan is the pick from his rookie year on because, compared to anyone, LaBron, Bird, Magic, there is the elite few who just have that "I will do whatever it takes to win" thing and then there are a LOT of really, really, good players. Jordon, Bird, Magic. That's the big 3 in my book. LaBron, physically, is in a class by himself and is an amazing talent and the best player of this age and one of the best all time. That said, I think he is missing that 'thing', that win at all costs thing the big 3 had. That doesn't make him a loser by any stretch and, again, I am very happy for him and as a fan, he's chose to take on the challenge of getting Cleveland a title. He was really close this year and faced an epic challenge with the injuries and did not harm himself, at all, in a valiant, losing effort. That said, in my view, if he had that extra thing coupled with his size and skills, man, it would have been THE greatest series win, EVER, had he been able to will them over the line.

:buddies:
 
Grumpy

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
Larry Gude said:
That said, I think he is missing that 'thing', that win at all costs thing the big 3 had.
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If he(LaBron) had that 'thing', he would be heads and shoulders above the others, IMO. But, he doesn't have it and it's not a learned 'thing', you're either a natural born killer or you're not.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Grumpy said:
If he(LaBron) had that 'thing', he would be heads and shoulders above the others, IMO. But, he doesn't have it and it's not a learned 'thing', you're either a natural born killer or you're not.
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That's saying it in way less words than I needed. : buddies:
 
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