We claim to be so "Christian".

[seekeroftruth]

Matthew 26:31 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:​

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“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’​

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32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”​

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33 Peter replied, “Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.”​

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34 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”​

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35 But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.​

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I thought I could stick with God no matter what. I thought, back when I was new, 12 or 13 years old, that I would always put Jesus first.

We moved. Daddy got orders to go to Norfolk. We had to move from Gales Ferry to Virginia Beach. The church was different... but eventually we found one.

A couple years later, I went to work, and I worked on Sunday. After all, the adults worked all week and took the weekend off. The new kid could handle the Sunday crowd.

A couple years after that, I went to work at NSA. I commuted all week from Baltimore to Fort Meade and back. I "rested" on Sunday. That was my one real day off.

Then I got married and ex-hubby wasn't into church.

Then I got kids.... two girls and a boy. By the time I had the third baby I was back in the church, teaching Sunday School. Ex-hubby didn't have to be into church.... but I did. I needed it.

The rest of the story is worse, but in the end, it was Jesus that kept the kids and me safe. Oh, we had bumps. But the kids know who Jesus is. Oh, we had bumps. But all these decades later, here I am posting those Bible verses on the computer.

I haven't been inside a brick-and-mortar church in years. The last time I went to church was out here in Arizona. They wear their guns to church! They don't allow single women to "just show up".... Either bring your husband or a friend but don't show up alone. Our men are not to be distracted.

I've seen Bibles collected and burned because they are not KJV. I've seen preachers lie to us from the pulpit. One preacher, recorded for television, stood at the pulpit and said "I hate you" three times.... and gave the reasons. The people just nodded and agreed as if he was telling them the sun shines. I called him on it, it was even available for playback, and he denied it. I've seen people thrown out of church because they have mental health problems. I've heard reports of preachers and priests sexually abusing women and children in the church. Of course, they will deny it. AND.... now they are throwing people out of the church over a piece of fabric and some elastic.

But we claim to be so Christian!

 

[SamSpade]

But we claim to be so Christian!

In the end - we stand alone before God. It doesn't matter what everyone does. There have been countless times in the Bible where God had only one prophet or judge. And they often met horrible fates.

But the KJV one baffles me. A translation from the original Greek does NOT make it the definitive text - the GREEK would be that.
Moreover, the Elizabethan era English has changed, so that the English words no longer mean the same thing as they do today.

Lastly, better and older copies of the Greek texts have been found SINCE 1610 - making the KJV a good translation, but definitely not the best.

 

[seekeroftruth]

In the end - we stand alone before God. It doesn't matter what everyone does. There have been countless times in the Bible where God had only one prophet or judge. And they often met horrible fates.

But the KJV one baffles me. A translation from the original Greek does NOT make it the definitive text - the GREEK would be that.
Moreover, the Elizabethan era English has changed, so that the English words no longer mean the same thing as they do today.

Lastly, better and older copies of the Greek texts have been found SINCE 1610 - making the KJV a good translation, but definitely not the best.

Exactly.... and if I don't understand what I'm reading... then what good is it?

The King James version throws me off topic with all those thee and thou. I couldn't let them burn my Bible. It was there for me when they weren't.

My NIV still brings the Word even when the church is warped.

 

[SamSpade]

A typical example, I might add - is the word "conversation". In KJV English, it means what it meant AT THE TIME it was translated - conversation meant, your interaction with others - your BEHAVIOR. It can include your words, but it means behavior and several passages don't make a lick of sense without knowing that.

Another might be "communion" which, at the time, meant "sharing with" and not to "commune with".

Other problems are that the GREEK is translated into a word or phrase which now is used differently. An example would be in 1 Thessalonians 5 where it urges to "avoid all appearances of evil" - which I can tell you, I certainly was chastised for doing things entirely innocent but, since it might look dirty to someone with a dirty mind, you were expected to refrain. For instance, we might have a very sick single woman in the church, and a single man was instructed NOT to enter her home when she was alone, because it might look like a booty call to a neighbor.

But "appearance" is mostly mistranslated from what it ought to be "all KINDS of evil" which makes a lot more sense.

Basically - it's not just that ENGLISH has evolved - but the verses themselves are weakly translated, and the source material used for the KJV is as late as 12th century - so there are errors which appear in more recently discovered texts SINCE then.

 

[stgislander]

A typical example, I might add - is the word "conversation". In KJV English, it means what it meant AT THE TIME it was translated - conversation meant, your interaction with others - your BEHAVIOR. It can include your words, but it means behavior and several passages don't make a lick of sense without knowing that.

Another might be "communion" which, at the time, meant "sharing with" and not to "commune with".

Other problems are that the GREEK is translated into a word or phrase which now is used differently. An example would be in 1 Thessalonians 5 where it urges to "avoid all appearances of evil" - which I can tell you, I certainly was chastised for doing things entirely innocent but, since it might look dirty to someone with a dirty mind, you were expected to refrain. For instance, we might have a very sick single woman in the church, and a single man was instructed NOT to enter her home when she was alone, because it might look like a booty call to a neighbor.

But "appearance" is mostly mistranslated from what it ought to be "all KINDS of evil" which makes a lot more sense.

Basically - it's not just that ENGLISH has evolved - but the verses themselves are weakly translated, and the source material used for the KJV is as late as 12th century - so there are errors which appear in more recently discovered texts SINCE then.

I always thought the KJV came from the Latin Vulgate, and not direct from earlier Greek texts.

 

[SamSpade]

I always thought the KJV came from the Latin Vulgate, and not direct from earlier Greek texts.

I think you're right - or at least, mostly right. It's believed that the KJV translators turned to the Erasmus translation for the New Testament, which would have been Greek - or that they used Tyndale's, which used Erasmus.

The Old Testament would have been Jerome's Vulgate manuscripts from the 12th century - even as his original was the 4th century.

In any event - what we have to work with NOW is much better and much older and closer to the originals.

My only complaint about translations is - do you do a paraphrase - or a literal translation? A literal might yield expressions that make no sense in modern English, while a paraphrase would make it clear - but might introduce bias by adding words that aren't there.

Here's an example (NOT FROM THE BIBLE). Presumably, the Ukrainians on Snake Island told the Russian warship - "Go F--- Yourself" - but a LITERAL translation is "go sit on a dick". The first being more familiar to English-speakers, is how it was translated, even though the meaning is intended to be identical.

Often times, Bible translators must ignore literal translation of idioms to convey the right idea.

 

[stgislander]

I think you're right - or at least, mostly right. It's believed that the KJV translators turned to the Erasmus translation for the New Testament, which would have been Greek - or that they used Tyndale's, which used Erasmus.

The Old Testament would have been Jerome's Vulgate manuscripts from the 12th century - even as his original was the 4th century.

In any event - what we have to work with NOW is much better and much older and closer to the originals.

My only complaint about translations is - do you do a paraphrase - or a literal translation? A literal might yield expressions that make no sense in modern English, while a paraphrase would make it clear - but might introduce bias by adding words that aren't there.

Here's an example (NOT FROM THE BIBLE). Presumably, the Ukrainians on Snake Island told the Russian warship - "Go F--- Yourself" - but a LITERAL translation is "go sit on a dick". The first being more familiar to English-speakers, is how it was translated, even though the meaning is intended to be identical.

Often times, Bible translators must ignore literal translation of idioms to convey the right idea.

That is the nice thing about some study bibles. They can/will add notations explaining where a verse may be a paraphrase and not the literal translation.