What would you do in a case like this???

[Monello]

I've been retired for a while. I'm sure the rules for rape/sexual abuse reporting have been given in annual training. I got this off of a military board. I don't know any of the people involved in this. I find this an interesting dilemma. So what would you do? Please state branch of service and LOS.

So on Halloween a few of my coworkers wanted to go out, but I was in a bad mood so decided not to join them. Our female E5 (I'm an E6) was mostly disappointed because I'm one of her better friends in our very, very small company (around 10 people). She ended up getting incredibly drunk and had some guy from the bar take her home instead of our DD that was there. She went when he was in the latrine and didn't notice.
... When they got to her place, she had sex with him, but was too drunk to really know what was going on. A couple of hours later the realization came in of what had happened and she started freaking out.

I get a call at 0500 from a crying girl saying she got raped. I went over there and talked with her about it, tried to take her to the hospital, but she wouldn't go. Even after she sobered up completely she still would not go, and didn't want me to report it. She feels embarrassed and ashamed, etc.
Granted, she did drink and it might have been consensual-ish, but with her being that drunk, we all know SHARP says that it's technically rape. Plus seeing her reaction when the realization set in was pretty severe.

So, what would you all do in a professional aspect here? I know I'm obligated to report it, but at the same time it turned into a pretty large argument between us when I said I was going to. Of course she pulled the friend card and told me not to.

It's been eating away at me pretty well the last few days, so I just want to know what you all would do? Risk the friendship and possible hostile work environment that would be caused by reporting it, or be miserable knowing that the only thing you can do to help is report it and she won't let you.

I do have a little bit of guilt, because I know that if I had gone none of this would have happened, but I also know it's not my fault... It's just that human nature thing making me think of the "what if."

Also, on a side note, no one knew who this guy was and have never seen him before. They only know about what he looks like and that he was an E7. So even reporting it would make it a little more difficult to find him, but it might help her out in the long run. Opinions please.

 

[vraiblonde]

She is responsible for getting so drunk that she took a stranger home and had sex with him. That is not my definition of rape.

 

[Bann]

I agree with Vrai - she's responsible for getting drunk and having sex with a "stranger". That's not rape in my opinion, either.

She's described as a "crying girl" in the post, but an E5 is hardly a girl. You have to have a few years in before reaching an E5 rank.

 

[vraiblonde]

She's described as a "crying girl" in the post, but an E5 is hardly a girl.

And there's a great point: this woman is an E-5 in the US military. She is sworn to defend our country, and here she is getting drunk and having sex with strangers, then bawling about it. A girl - not a woman, not a soldier, but a girl. I think she should be discharged and the letter writer should report it for that purpose.

 

[Bann]

And there's a great point: this woman is an E-5 in the US military. She is sworn to defend our country, and here she is getting drunk and having sex with strangers, then bawling about it. A girl - not a woman, not a soldier, but a girl. I think she should be discharged and the letter writer should report it for that purpose.

 

[Larry Gude]

What on earth could be the negative consequence of honoring a friend and NOT reporting it? How stupid a policy is that? Sounds like she's embarrassed, is willing to take responsibility. What earthly good can come of reporting it???

 

[MMDad]

How do we know that he doesn't feel raped? If he was drunk and she took him to her place, who is the aggressor?

 

[Larry Gude]

How do we know that he doesn't feel raped? If he was drunk and she took him to her place, who is the aggressor?

Yeah! He's probably so ashamed and feeling so violated that he's sitting a in a bar right now, sharing his...trauma...with his pals and swilling beers and throwing down wings in an effort to try and regain some sense of dignity and casting about for a reason to go on...being a pig who likes ####ing drunk chicks.

 

[vraiblonde]

Yeah! He's probably so ashamed and feeling so violated that he's sitting a in a bar right now, sharing his...trauma...with his pals and swilling beers and throwing down wings in an effort to try and regain some sense of dignity and casting about for a reason to go on...being a pig who likes ####ing drunk chicks.

For every you, there are millions of not-yous.

Maybe she's a huge skank and he wouldn't have done her if sober?

Maybe he's married or has a girlfriend?

Maybe she gave him the clap?

You don't know. He could be having buyer's remorse as well.

 

[MMDad]

Yeah! He's probably so ashamed and feeling so violated that he's sitting a in a bar right now, sharing his...trauma...with his pals and swilling beers and throwing down wings in an effort to try and regain some sense of dignity and casting about for a reason to go on...being a pig who likes ####ing drunk chicks.

If our society has decided that getting drunk and ####ing some random dude makes you a rape victim, then why not use the same standard for a man?

Of course it's silly, but that's my point. If feminazis want "equal rights" then those rights go both ways.

 

[MMDad]

You don't know. He could be having buyer's remorse as well.

The terms "coyote ugly" or "beer goggles" would not exist if most guys didn't know the feeling first hand.

 

[Ken King]

ex-USAF 12 years active duty.

The drunk says don't report it, so don't report it. Sounds as if she is having regrets for her activities and is unsure if what happened was rape or simply drunken proclivity. If she was my subordinate the most I would do is insist that she gets into an alcohol treatment program.

 

[Bann]

For every you, there are millions of not-yous.

Maybe she's a huge skank and he wouldn't have done her if sober?

Maybe he's married or has a girlfriend?

Maybe she gave him the clap?

You don't know. He could be having buyer's remorse as well.

Oh, wow! I actually HAD that same phrase in my original post, because that is what first came to mind when I read it. I took it out, so as not to sound too harsh, but buyer's remorse is exactly what I think she had.

 

[Merlin99]

ex-USAF 12 years active duty.

The drunk says don't report it, so don't report it. Sounds as if she is having regrets for her activities and is unsure if what happened was rape or simply drunken proclivity. If she was my subordinate the most I would do is insist that she gets into an alcohol treatment program.

I think I might want to get that part in writing. If she decides to report it later and it comes out, he may face charges of accessory to rape after the fact for not reporting it.

 

[MMDad]

ex-USAF 12 years active duty.

The drunk says don't report it, so don't report it. Sounds as if she is having regrets for her activities and is unsure if what happened was rape or simply drunken proclivity. If she was my subordinate the most I would do is insist that she gets into an alcohol treatment program.

Our female E5 (I'm an E6) was mostly disappointed because I'm one of her better friends in our very, very small company (around 10 people).

E-5 tells E-6 in her own unit. She already reported it. The E-5 now has no say in the matter. The E-6 has no choice but to pass it up the chain.

 

[jesj]

Navy, 10 years active

Given the benefit of hindsight for a similar incident (civilian friend), I would argue with her to immediately go to the ER to have a rape kit performed (checked for physical trauma, STDs, and drugs). Encourage her to at least file a restricted report. With a restricted report, she will get medical care without starting an investigation. If there's a possibility that she was the instigator, and that she simply has no memory of this, a restricted report will open up avenues for her to get help. If that rape kit says that she was drugged, or if enough of her memory returns such that she chooses to convert to an unrestricted report, she can.

As for me reporting it, I would talk to the SARC without disclosing any names. There simply aren't enough details in the post to know enough about what happened to make any sort of definitive statement or pass judgement. She is fairly certain that she was raped, but it could have been "consensual-ish". She left the bar when her DD was in the head. The other person was an E7. If she did not give consent, it was rape. If she was too drunk to legally give consent, but gave consent anyway, then we reach the start of the gray area in which we have to determine if he was sober enough to realize she was too drunk to give consent. The SARC would be in a better position to help, to ask the right questions, and figure out what exactly went on.

As far as having a requirement to report it, "(4) A victim has a privilege to refuse to disclose and to prevent any other person from disclosing a confidential communication between a victim and a victim advocate, in a case arising under the UCMJ, if such communication is made for the purpose of facilitating advice or supportive assistance to the victim in accordance with Reference (q)," from DODINST 6495.02. I would argue that she confided in a victim advocate, though not a SAPR VA.

 

[BOP]

Navy, 10 years active

Given the benefit of hindsight for a similar incident (civilian friend), I would argue with her to immediately go to the ER to have a rape kit performed (checked for physical trauma, STDs, and drugs). Encourage her to at least file a restricted report. With a restricted report, she will get medical care without starting an investigation. If there's a possibility that she was the instigator, and that she simply has no memory of this, a restricted report will open up avenues for her to get help. If that rape kit says that she was drugged, or if enough of her memory returns such that she chooses to convert to an unrestricted report, she can.

As for me reporting it, I would talk to the SARC without disclosing any names. There simply aren't enough details in the post to know enough about what happened to make any sort of definitive statement or pass judgement. She is fairly certain that she was raped, but it could have been "consensual-ish". She left the bar when her DD was in the head. The other person was an E7. If she did not give consent, it was rape. If she was too drunk to legally give consent, but gave consent anyway, then we reach the start of the gray area in which we have to determine if he was sober enough to realize she was too drunk to give consent. The SARC would be in a better position to help, to ask the right questions, and figure out what exactly went on.

As far as having a requirement to report it, "(4) A victim has a privilege to refuse to disclose and to prevent any other person from disclosing a confidential communication between a victim and a victim advocate, in a case arising under the UCMJ, if such communication is made for the purpose of facilitating advice or supportive assistance to the victim in accordance with Reference (q)," from DODINST 6495.02. I would argue that she confided in a victim advocate, though not a SAPR VA.

Navy, 6 years; got out in '78. We didn't have all the resources back then that they have now. Hell, they didn't even have random drug testing except for certain specialties.

Back then, I would have gone to the chaplain for advice. That was about the only way to ensure any kind of confidentiality in those days.

Having taken the POSH (annual training), I'd say you're spot on. The E-6's "friend" may hate him/her, but both of them should understand by this point in their careers that their professional obligations transcend their personal inhibitions.

Thankfully for the E-5, the incident doesn't have to get broadcast all over hell's half acre like it once would have, and both she and her friend are protected, should there be any nasty fallout over all this.

 

[Larry Gude]

For every you, there are millions of not-yous.

Maybe she's a huge skank and he wouldn't have done her if sober?

Maybe he's married or has a girlfriend?

Maybe she gave him the clap?

You don't know. He could be having buyer's remorse as well.

All of which has nothing to do with the point; in this case with the given details, if SHE doesn't want it reported, why isn't that the end of it?

Also, you, as usual, are harder on the woman than the man. Where is the 'too bad for him' that you gave to her, huh?

 

[Larry Gude]

If our society has decided that getting drunk and ####ing some random dude makes you a rape victim, then why not use the same standard for a man?

Of course it's silly, but that's my point. If feminazis want "equal rights" then those rights go both ways.

Because society is, in plenty of ways, ####ed up and the ONLY way we hold onto ANY sanity is by insisting. Men and women are DIFFERENT. VERY. That means some of the rules of civilized society can, and should, be different. I refuse to conduct myself exclusively as some group wants me to.

Now, that is not to say that some of our ways shouldn't be adjusted. They should but, it's not going to turn out well if we, guys, want to be treated like women.

 

[Ken King]

I think I might want to get that part in writing. If she decides to report it later and it comes out, he may face charges of accessory to rape after the fact for not reporting it.

Accessory after the fact is with the intent to help or assist the person that committed the crime to avoid punishment. Are you saying the E-6 knew who it was that allegedly committed the act (if there was an act)?