100% Renewable Energy in Germany

[Gilligan]

You're right, it's not renewable, but it is heretofore an untapped resource that can lessen our dependence on oil and we don't have to strip a mountain to do it. And, if we are to speak about greenhouse effect crap, it burns cleaner than coal or oil. AND, I have gas rights, damn it!

Solar, wind or whatever, just like anything innovative you have to put some effort into it and give it time to work out. That's just life, it's the way things go. :shrug:

Like I said..I'm a huge fan of natural gas. One of my shipbuilding clients recently launched the worlds first high-speed passenger/car ferry that burns LNG in turbines for its power. Look for a lot more of that kind of thing as time goes by.

As for solar and wind...I suffer from 'engineer's disease' when it comes to those; wind in particular. I understand the underlying physics and the impenetrable performance limitations, as well as the very important economics involved. Wind power, in particular, is a horrendous waste of scarce economic resources. That reality is why Britain, as one example, has recently ordred full stop on their once-ambitious plans for wind power.

 

[GWguy]

You're right, it's not renewable, but it is heretofore an untapped resource that can lessen our dependence on oil and we don't have to strip a mountain to do it. And, if we are to speak about greenhouse effect crap, it burns cleaner than coal or oil. AND, I have gas rights, damn it!

Solar, wind or whatever, just like anything innovative you have to put some effort into it and give it time to work out. That's just life, it's the way things go. :shrug:

I agree with most of your concepts, but this one is a tough one. There is currently an abundance of NG fuel. However, if everyone jumps on this, they will eventually have to turn to alternate methods to obtain it, fracking being one. I am opposed to any fracking. Being non-renewable, prices will skyrocket and supplies diminish.

I honestly don't know what the right solution is. Solar just doesn't cut it in terms of cost/payback/repairs vs gain. Wind also has similar problems, plus a few more of it's own.

I'd be more inclined to back a hydrogen fuel cell system, but that hasn't reached a generally usable state either.

 

[Gilligan]

I'd be more inclined to back a hydrogen fuel cell system, but that hasn't reached a generally usable state either.

The problem with hydrogen is the amount of energy it takes to separate it in the first place. The only viable demonstration that I've seen so far is a hybrid system that uses solar power to provide electricity to run a site and has excess capacity to crack water in to hydrogen and oxygen. Then the hydrogen is burned in a fuel cell to produce electricity when its dark and/or cloudy. So the hydrogen part is an energy storage and conversion technology...as different from being an energy source.

And the problem remains the same as with any solar (and most wind) solutions....it takes a large amount of expensive equipment to produce a small amount of reliable power.

I've worked on the design of a hybrid (solar + wind + diesel genny + battery storage) power plant for an isolated island location. But in that particular case, the duty cycle made it easy: electrical power of any significant level was only required on some weekends...so the solar and wind generators were small, the battery storage capacity moderate.

 

[jetmonkey]

Every prisoner in America should be pedaling a stationary bike hooked to the power grid all day. It would keep them healthy and ruin their ability to reproduce (at least the men)

 

[GWguy]

The problem with hydrogen is the amount of energy it takes to separate it in the first place. The only viable demonstration that I've seen so far is a hybrid system that uses solar power to provide electricity to run a site and has excess capacity to crack water in to hydrogen and oxygen. Then the hydrogen is burned in a fuel cell to produce electricity when its dark and/or cloudy. So the hydrogen part is an energy storage and conversion technology...as different from being an energy source.

And the problem remains the same as with any solar (and most wind) solutions....it takes a large amount of expensive equipment to produce a small amount of reliable power.

I've worked on the design of a hybrid (solar + wind + diesel genny + battery storage) power plant for an isolated island location. But in that particular case, the duty cycle made it easy: electrical power of any significant level was only required on some weekends...so the solar and wind generators were small, the battery storage capacity moderate.

Agreed.

I used to put a hydrogen sulfate / water solution in a bottle, invert it in a pan of water and stick two electrodes in the bottle. Attach the electrodes to a battery charger and watch the solution disappear to be replaced by O2 and H. Take the electrodes out, cork the bottle.

Put on some protective gear, like a face mask, light a candle, uncork the bottle and put the open end to the flame.

Makes quite a sound.

So... different tack... calcium carbide. Is it cheap to produce? :shrug: If so, that's an easy source of acetylene, which could be used to create controlled heat energy. Or is acetylene too unstable to put in the hands of the average consumer?

 

[Gilligan]

So... different tack... calcium carbide. Is it cheap to produce? :shrug: If so, that's an easy source of acetylene, which could be used to create controlled heat energy. Or is acetylene too unstable to put in the hands of the average consumer?

I would have known the answer to that question 40-plus years ago...I had one of those very loud and very dangerous carbide artillery canons. Tis amazing what passed as "safe toys" back in the good ole days.

 

[GWguy]

A quick search makes it look to be outwardly expensive, $100 per quart can, but I'll bet that goes a long way making gas.

Also found a youtube video on how to make your own from limestone.


Hmmmmmmm......... I wonder how it would work in a v-8 engine?



:BLAM:

 

[Gilligan]

AHmmmmmmm......... I wonder how it would work in a v-8 engine?



:BLAM:

Might work well...once.

 

[Radiant1]

I agree with most of your concepts, but this one is a tough one. There is currently an abundance of NG fuel. However, if everyone jumps on this, they will eventually have to turn to alternate methods to obtain it, fracking being one. I am opposed to any fracking. Being non-renewable, prices will skyrocket and supplies diminish.

I honestly don't know what the right solution is. Solar just doesn't cut it in terms of cost/payback/repairs vs gain. Wind also has similar problems, plus a few more of it's own.

I'd be more inclined to back a hydrogen fuel cell system, but that hasn't reached a generally usable state either.

True enough, and I'm not sure how I feel about fracking. It's kind of like the greenhouse biz. There's a lot of propaganda from both sides out there.

 

[Gilligan]

True enough, and I'm not sure how I feel about fracking. It's kind of like the greenhouse biz. There's a lot of propaganda from both sides out there.

I'm not sure where I fall on the issue of fracking. I'm instinctively "for" any new or increased supply of domestic energy. I've seen zero evidence that fracking has created any problems anywhere...all those "gas in the well water" videos were basically scams and highly inaccurate.

But something about the whole way they go about doing fracking...leaves me with an uneasy feeling that we don't really know what the ultimate consequences might be.

 

[Merlin99]

You mean like all the positive effects of that variety that we've experienced by making ethanol from corn?

Oh...wait....no, that wouldn't be a good example, would it.

No that wouldn't be a good example. Ethanol is an example of shifting the problem and depleting other natural resources while causing myriad other problems doing it.

 

[Merlin99]

A quick search makes it look to be outwardly expensive, $100 per quart can, but I'll bet that goes a long way making gas.

Also found a youtube video on how to make your own from limestone.


Hmmmmmmm......... I wonder how it would work in a v-8 engine?



:BLAM:

All of those old fashioned miners helmets ran on it, so it must have commercially feasible at some point.

 

[ylexot]

My view...government shouldn't push for anything. They should pull instead.

Currently, we "push" by giving money to company/agency X to study, research, and hopefully develop Y ($+X=Y?). How do we know that company/agency X can do it? We don't.

Flip the equation and "pull" instead. Offer money to anyone who successfully develops Y (X+Y=$). In this way, only those who can accomplish the task get paid. And if you offer $1B (much less than the $90B we've invested in failures) to the first one to make it work, everyone with a good idea will be trying.

 

[GURPS]

Here's the key.....

Solar Panels, Now Coming to a Utility Pole Near You


Solar Panels Rise Pole by Pole, Followed by Gasps of ‘Eyesore’

 

[GURPS]

Wind Power


G - I would think you would have a constant wind being on the water

 

[Gilligan]

All of those old fashioned miners helmets ran on it, so it must have commercially feasible at some point.

Yes but..in limited quantities as one of only a few available solutions for a unique set of 'period' requirements. Very early automobiles used the same stuff..as did carriage lamps before that. Bright, compact portable light generators. And inherently dangerous as heck.

Than came longer life more compact dry-cell batteries and generators and rechargeable wet cell batteries on cars and... and ....

 

[GWguy]

Yes but..in limited quantities as one of only a few available solutions for a unique set of 'period' requirements. Very early automobiles used the same stuff..as did carriage lamps before that. Bright, compact portable light generators. And inherently dangerous as heck.

Than came longer life more compact dry-cell batteries and generators and rechargeable wet cell batteries on cars and... and ....

^that.

Major cause of cave and mine explosions. Not the lamps, but the lamps igniting the methane and natural gas.

 

[Radiant1]

My view...government shouldn't push for anything. They should pull instead.

Currently, we "push" by giving money to company/agency X to study, research, and hopefully develop Y ($+X=Y?). How do we know that company/agency X can do it? We don't.

Flip the equation and "pull" instead. Offer money to anyone who successfully develops Y (X+Y=$). In this way, only those who can accomplish the task get paid. And if you offer $1B (much less than the $90B we've invested in failures) to the first one to make it work, everyone with a good idea will be trying.

A reasonable cost-saving approach while still encouraging alternatives and innovation.

The only problem I see is big oil stomping any private investors willing to go for it. It's not as hard to lose your investor's money when that investor is the gov't.

 

[Gilligan]

The only problem I see is big oil stomping any private investors willing to go for it.:

Say what????? "Big oil" is investing more money in alternative energy than our tax dollars by a long shot.

You are shirley not buying in to that psychotic but ever-present "Earl invented a machine that runs forever on two teaspoonfulls of cod liver oil and the big oil companies took him out with a small thermonuclear device" garbage are ya???

 

[Radiant1]

Say what????? "Big oil" is investing more money in alternative energy than our tax dollars by a long shot.

You are shirley not buying in to that psychotic but ever-present "Earl invented a machine that runs forever on two teaspoonfulls of cod liver oil and the big oil companies took him out with a small thermonuclear device" garbage are ya???

Are they? Enlighten me please. I wasn't aware I was buying into anything, but I guess you can try to sell me something too.