Affordable Housing in Southern MD

[vraiblonde]

Gosh, I hate to bring up the basic premise of supply and demand but...apparently the housing down here <i>is</i> affordable, otherwise no one would be able to buy or rent and the prices would <i>have</i> to come down.

Frank, I rented a waterfront house for $700/month - it was an older and smaller home, 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, but it had a fireplace so big you could roast a pig in it.  Keep in mind that at $20,000 with two dependents, my tax bite was next to nothing.  I had no car payment, basic cable, small phone bills, generous friends with older kids and lots of hand-me-downs.  My grocery bill was $200/month.  I have a clean driving record so my car insurance was way low.  I worked out of my home so daycare wasn't an issue.  AND I thumb my nose at the idea of "health insurance" so didn't shell out for that - we paid as we went and came out waaaaay ahead.  Heck, I even had a lawn guy who came out every two weeks to do my grass.

 

[Lilly]

The good thing about the housing bust is that if you were intelligent enough to invest in some property before the "invasion" you can now rent those places for twice the mortgage!  Unfortunately I was not one of those intelligent souls.
I understand your point geekboy - as someone who is also looking for a new home I understand your frustration.  As a single guy though you should probably be able to afford a condo or older townhome for your price range.  Finding a decent house in St. Mary's in a decent price range IS possible as long as you are patient.  We have had a number of options but we are waiting for the right place to come up on the market (i.e. actual house on land - none of this pre-designed community crap).

 

[geekboy]

Yea I wish I could have bought a house down here 10 years ago, problem was I wasnt in Maryland and I was still in high school.  

As for a townhouse, yes I can afford that but If I wanted to live in an apartment I would just live in an apartment.  I want a yard and a garage.  

 

[Christy]

Geekboy, there's a cute little house (with a basement) for sale across the street from where I live.  Prices have always been very reasonable in Mechanicsville.  Want me to check on it for you?  The house beside it sold about two years ago for $140K and it came with 5 acres.

 

[Ken King]

Now Christy, does Steve know that you're trying to get young single professional males to move in across the street?    

 

[Lilly]

Just got around to readint the Southern Maryland section of the Sunday edition of the Washington Post last night (this is why I only get the Sunday paper - it takes me a week to find the time to read it).  Apparantly there was recently a meeting in Lexington Park on this very subject.  It was a forum to discuss the need for affordable housing in our area.  While it was a public forum it seems that only the experts who were planning to present that night showed up.  If there are as many of the working poor out there in desperate need of housing as some have said, you would have thought they might have showed up??

 

[Christy]

Ken!  Shhhhhh!  You're not supposed to tell on me!  Actually Steve would probably be more excited than myself, in hopes that geekboy would adorn his property with scantilly clad twenty-something women!

 

[Ken King]

That's right, you guys have got the pool.  Okay, makes perfect sense now, doing it for the hubby.    

 

[geekboy]

"in hopes that geekboy would adorn his property with scantilly clad twenty-something women! "

Unfortunately that isn't too likely  

I was hoping to find something closer to the base than Mechanicsville, although I do like the area.  I was thinking somewhere south of Leonardtown on RT 5 or South of the Base anywhere.  I hate the traffic of 235 north of the base.  

 

[Christy]

Geekboy "If you build it they will come."  Sorry, having a Field of Dreams fashback!

 

[geekboy]

LOL

I like your taste in movies Christy, Field of Dreams, Full Metal Jacket.  

The guy that played Sgt Hartman was on base a couple months ago, his picture was in the testor.  

 

[ByeBye]

As a new transplant to Breezy Point, Calvert County, SOMD on account of my wife's career I have a few insights I would like to share:

1)  Not everybody likes to drive 1.5+ hours to work.  We moved from Buffalo where I used to bike to work (20 min), walk to my friends' and families' houses, grocery store, park, riverfront, etc.  Sure do miss that.

2)  Housing is NOT expensive everywhere in the country.  Here's an example, a home we were looking to purchase in Buffalo was 2000 sq. ft. (not including basement) and simply needed a new roof -- $60K.  With all the money that's left over, we can fly to wherever we want on vacation to escape the winter blues.  There are many such opportunities like this in Buffalo and other areas in the country.  Maybe the weather's not the greatest in the winter, but how much time do you spend outdoors anyhow?  Also, has anyone heard of a jacket/boots/gloves/scarf, skiing, snow-shoeing, hiking?

3)  Affordable housing.  I pay $750 rent for a 23X23 house, utilities extra.  I've been told that this is cheap!  I honestly don't see how anyone making minimum wage or something close to that could afford these prices and still have any money left over.  BTW min wage approx 6/hr X 60 hr/wk X 50 wk/yr = 18K / yr.

4)  Local professional job opportunities are next to none.  As a mechanical engineer who is on the cusp of US citizenship, (interview in May, Canadian born and thus currently ineligible for defense / govt employment), Lexington Park is out, all the defense contractors are out, what does this leave me with?  Precious little except a 1.5+ hour drive to DC/or DC burbs.

5)  Finally,  I think there are nice points about living down here.  For those of you who don't mind the commute, being stuck in traffic, dumping hundred of gallons of gas into your car every year, working in defense, paying way too much for everything, BULLY FOR YOU, I mean that.  If you've found something you like, and can live with that, GREAT, more power to you.

As for me, SOMD has been a bust.  I'm looking forward to the day when I sign my rental truck agreement to pack our stuff and get out of here.

    Just as a note.  There seems to be a lot of the, "I-got-mine-now-you-get-yours" mentality by those who "have".  I'm not greedy, my wife makes in the mid 20's and we are struggling, but still comfortable.  However, I ask those who are professional, or otherwise well endowed, have you considered why it is that your skills and education entitle you to a higher wage than others?  This is to say, why is your labor/time more valuable than others?
    I'm not necessarily advocating socialism, or other forms of equitable distribution of wealth.  Nor am I suggesting that those who "have" didn't work hard for their keep.  But there are a lot of people who work HARD and can just make ends meet.  Why is it that a merit based society is our model for an equitable civilization?  Consider the ramifications of a merit-based society.  Doesn't such a society invariably require that valuation and associated commodification of human resources beget an ugly kind of social darwinism?  How much different is an arbitrary valuation of merit than an an arbitrary valuation of an inherent physical characteristic?
    Just ask yourselves this question.  If you were laid off tomorrow, and your skill set was no longer considered a commodity (e.g. you were a buggy whip manufacturer on the crux of the automobile age and didn't make the transition quickly enough) and the competition was quite keen for the "valued" skill sets which you currently do not posess, should you be penalized as a result of your choice of career/interest?

Regards to all.

 

[mrs potts]

FINALLY - someone seems to see the same things as me!  

Thanks, byebye!

 

[vraiblonde]

ByeBye, you raise a good point.  Personally, I think the guys who pick up my trash and cut my lawn should be millionaires because they make my life easier.  Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.  If they charged enough to become millionaires, people couldn't afford to use their services and they'd go out of business.

What it all boils down to is <i>what people are willing pay</i> and <i>how broad your market is</i>.  I used to have a sales manager who, when we were trying to put a price on a package, would say, "Let's price it at a million dollars - that way we only have to sell one."  It was our standard joke.

It's a fact of life that people will make more money with their brain than they ever will with physical labor.  Why?  Because the idea people are smart enough to get some chump to do the grunt work for minimum wage, while they rake in the profits.  The flip side is that, without the idea people, there would be no occupations where the chumps could make money at all.  Then they could all sit on welfare...except there would be no welfare because there wouldn't be the rest of us to fund it.  Take a look at third-world countries for an example of how this works.

Is your employer smarter than you?  You may not think so, but apparently he <i>is</i> because he's figured out how to make more money than you.

 

[Lilly]

Vrai

For one thing ByeBye - I am definately not one of the haves pointing at the have nots.  While yes I do own a home in SOMD it is not exactly a sprawling estate nor does it quite provide the living space my growing family has come to need.  Therefore I see both sides of this argument.  
My family is not anywhere well-endowed (Will my Husband kill me for saying that?   Probably!) but we have been able to make-it in St. Marys - just not yet to the level to which we aspire.  As someone currently looking for a home here under $150K I understand that there is not much out there and agree that someone on minimum wage would have a hard time making it as well.
But my point is - I made minimum wage - I worked my way through school while renting cheap apartments - I found the better job  - and then the better one.  If I was able to do it here - with a child from a young age - with no support from family - why can't anyone else who is motivated enough?  And since I worked so hard to get where I am - why should it be my responsibilty to help someone who is not motivated enough to do it on thier own?

 

[ByeBye]

Blondie,

    I think you will agree your summary of "idea people" and "grunts" is perhaps an oversimplification.  Unfortunately, I feel that your choice of words to describe "grunts", (i.e. "chumps", not "idea people&quot implies that those who provide these services are somehow lacking in mental capacity, or drive to become "idea people".  Please correct me if I am mistaken.  
Does your description illustrate a philosophy that those who are paid less are not as "smart" as those who manage them and are paid more?  If they were "idea people" they would become managers and excel financially?  Doesn't the assessment of intelligence and contribution based on financial status trouble you?
    As far as the 3rd world economic model for welfare, I'm sure that you too will agree that this summary is inadequate to describe the economic woes present in a significant portion of the world.
    Finally, without sanitation workers and landscapers, I believe there would be no-one to manage.  Where might this leave the "idea people"?

Regards to all.

 

[ByeBye]

Lilly,

    Congratulations on your efforts.  Your hard work and perseverance have paid off and have made you the model of the american success story.  I never indicated that your efforts should assist someone who is not desirous of self-improvement.  I simply ask that one consider the logical end-point of a meritocracy.  Allow me to repeat,

"Doesn't such a society (meritocracy) create a valuation and associated commodification of human resources that beget an ugly kind of social darwinism?  How much different is an arbitrary valuation of merit than an an arbitrary valuation of an inherent physical characteristic?"

Regards to all.

 

[Guest]

I could not agree with you more Lilly.  

You know what bothers me.  You have these people that cry wolf because they don't have money but yet I see them at Social Services lined up for there check driving better vehicles than me and have all this gold around there necks but live in shacks.  Well hello I see something wrong there.  You know I had a baby at 18.  Didn't have a pot to pi$$ in or a window to through it out of by I managed.  Just bought a house in Breton Bay and I am only 25.  It is all about self-motivation.

 

[ByeBye]

Guest,

     And to others who suggest that my response had anything to do with welfare and soical services.  Allow me to restate the argument in perhaps a more logical manner.

1)  Our society's / government's philosophy is that everyone should be gainfully employed.  In that vein, welfare, unemployment, disability were all intended as a means to that end.  Whether or not an individual chooses or is even able to excercise that opportunity is entirely another matter.

2)  Our society is a meritocracy.  One which rewards merit either through awards and/or financial compensation.  The relationship between reward and merit is at the heart of what I am questioning.  What determines the value of someone's accomplishment?  Blondie suggests market pressures, to this I counter, what determines market pressures?  Are these well guided decision based on what is good for a society?  Are they arbitrary?  If you accept that a chance exists for these pressures to be arbitrary then this implies the reward of merit is equally arbitrary.  Thus, a meritocracy is no different than saying that someone has a desirous physical trait and should be rewarded as such.

3)  I also hear alot about self-motivation and drive.  Tell me, why is one person's self-motivation and drive better than someone else's self-motivation and drive (provided that they exist in equal degrees).  Clearly a supply-demand model suggests that this is the case.

4)  Finally, the lion's share of my post regarded the unavailability of affordable housing in SOMD.  I still believe this to be true.  If trends continue and move on par with other desirous areas (e.g. California), I'm sorry my friends, $350,000 will seem cheap in a few years.

Regards to all.

 

[vraiblonde]

Unfortunately, I feel that your choice of words to describe "grunts", (i.e. "chumps", not "idea people&quot implies that those who provide these services are somehow lacking in mental capacity, or drive to become "idea people".  Please correct me if I am mistaken.

No, you're not mistaken.  That's pretty close to how it is.  Unless it's someone who just flat loves their work and is willing to make less money to have the freedom and joy of doing what they want.

Does your description illustrate a philosophy that those who are paid less are not as "smart" as those who manage them and are paid more?  If they were "idea people" they would become managers and excel financially?  Doesn't the assessment of intelligence and contribution based on financial status trouble you?

Yes, Yes, and No.  When I was younger, I thought I should be paid as much as my boss - after all, <i>he</i> couldn't be successful if it weren't for <i>me</i>.  Now that I'm older and have a little more experience under my belt, I realize that in order to achieve, one must work for it.  This means education, experience and motivation.  You have to <i>earn</i> success, as I have done and my bosses before me have done.

In fact, here's an example of how it works:  the guy who owns our lawn company recently retired.  One of his employees, who previously pushed the mower for $8 an hour, made arrangements to buy him out and now that "lowly" grass guy owns the company.  There are dozens of grass and landscape guys working at that company - why did only one take the initiative to strike a deal and buy the company?  <i>Because he wanted it and took steps to get it!</i>

Finally, without sanitation workers and landscapers, I believe there would be no-one to manage.  Where might this leave the "idea people"?

Unfortunately, there is an unlimited supply of unmotivated, uneducated people in this country.  And as long as we allow our current welfare system and "dumbing down" of the education system, there always <i>will be</i>.  If you <i>really</i> want to level the playing field, don't vote Democrat - they typically are the ones who don't demand excellence of the citizenry in terms of crime, welfare and education.

And finally:

"Doesn't such a society (meritocracy) create a valuation and associated commodification of human resources that beget an ugly kind of social darwinism?  How much different is an arbitrary valuation of merit than an an arbitrary valuation of an inherent physical characteristic?"

To your first question, yes - although I would replace your term "ugly" with "necessary".

To your second question I say, "Depends on what people are willing to pay for."  In my opinion, valuation of <i>merit</i> isn't arbitrary, however you'd have to ask an actor/actress/entertainer/model about how they put a price on their physical characteristics.  Or, even better, ask someone who buys their products.  Professional sports people achieve based on merit, but you then have to ask yourself how much they're really worth, in terms of pay scale.  I am more willing to give my money to Bill Gates to get <i>his</i> product than I am to Brad Pitt to get <i>his</i> product.  But that's just me - apparently the rest of the nation doesn't feel that way.