Are you an Evolutionist?

hotcoffee

New Member
I hope no one think sI'm trying to de-bunk religion here.

There are definately things science can't explain, and I'm willing to admit that. Jealously, love, and emotion in general are things science can't really explain.

I think we live in times where religion and science can co-exist, if we want it to.

I doubt I'm more educated than anyone, because I honestly don't know much about many topics. The difference between myself, and others (not you, particularly) is that I am willing to learn. I don't close off my mind because I think a certain way.

Like I said.... man [meaning human beings in general not particularly you or anyone on this forum] has always thought he knew it all ..... Once upon a time they thought the earth was flat.

I crochet.... when I first started to learn my little project looked ok.... the ones I make now are different but the same [basically the same stitches]... The pattern is not random... I know what works together....

I don't think a flower or a animal [even a duck billed platypus] could just be a random congolmeration.... it just does not compute.... I think God created everything.... and part of the design was the change it went through in the future.... God controls time and He's also all knowing... He knew man would trash the earth and animals would have to adapt to those changes so it's part of the original design... or pattern... just like I know at a certain point in the afghan I'm going to run out of one color of yarn so I have to plan to switch over.... but the original design was for two yarns to make it to the end....

I'm not educated but that's how I figured it....

:coffee:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Has God given anyone else those same abilities since the bible times?

I'll agree there has been some things that could be considered "miracles", but nothing to the extent of parting a sea.

I think Jesus and His Apostles were the last. It’s my personal belief that this was God’s last defining moment to man, the last chance, to accept salvation. I believe God has no intention of offering us any more direct interaction; we have been given all we need to believe. I don’t claim to understand why that is given man’s forgetfulness. But it seems pretty obvious this is the case.

That is, until God reveals His Revelation to man.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Like I said.... man [meaning human beings in general not particularly you or anyone on this forum] has always thought he knew it all ..... Once upon a time they thought the earth was flat.

I crochet.... when I first started to learn my little project looked ok.... the ones I make now are different but the same [basically the same stitches]... The pattern is not random... I know what works together....

I don't think a flower or a animal [even a duck billed platypus] could just be a random congolmeration.... it just does not compute.... I think God created everything.... and part of the design was the change it went through in the future.... God controls time and He's also all knowing... He knew man would trash the earth and animals would have to adapt to those changes so it's part of the original design... or pattern... just like I know at a certain point in the afghan I'm going to run out of one color of yarn so I have to plan to switch over.... but the original design was for two yarns to make it to the end....

I'm not educated but that's how I figured it....

:coffee:

Why would he sit idly by and let man destroy the earth he worked so hard to create?

I think Jesus and His Apostles were the last. It’s my personal belief that this was God’s last defining moment to man, the last chance, to accept salvation. I believe God has no intention of offering us any more direct interaction; we have been given all we need to believe. I don’t claim to understand why that is given man’s forgetfulness. But it seems pretty obvious this is the case.

That is, until God reveals His Revelation to man.

I guess I have a hard time wondering why God would wait so long to make his presense known again.

I also wonder why you think it will only be your God. Will Buddah come back? Vishnu?

Does he get along with other Gods?

Are there other Gods? I know the bible says, no, but how do we know that?
 

EvolutionIsBS

Suspended User
Ok, what about the platypus?

Mammal, but lays eggs.

Bill like a duck.

Feet like an otter.

Tail like a beaver.

Venomous (males)

Numbers of related species have been found in fossil records over 100,000 years ago.

They store fat in their tales (an adaptation found in a few other animals). Their average body temperature is lower than most to acount for the harsh environment they live in. Among many, many different features not typically found in mammals.

A draft version of the Platypus genome was published back in 08 that showed both reptilian and mammilian genes. Along with genes previously on found in birds, amphibians, and fish. Yet, more than 80% of the platypus' genes are common to the other mammals whose genomes have been sequenced.

Animals evolve based on their environment, not because something told them to.



They cannot evolve, they can only adapt. Big difference.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
They cannot evolve, they can only adapt. Big difference.

Adaptation is, in my opinion, the beginning stages of evolution. First, an animal must adapt to the climate it's in, or if the climate it's in undergoes a large change. Then, after long periods of time, things change on those animals to "make like easier".

Maybe we should think about this in terms of "development", rather than "evolution". Judging by your screen name, trying to get you to see outside the box on evolution won't work out to well.

Finches in the Galapagoes Islands have different beaks. Charles Darwin noticed, and recorded this. In 2006, researchers found a genetic unit underlying their oft-described progress: calmodulin, whose expression during embryonic development changes beak shape.

(Some) Mice have become immune to mouse poison.

The Cuban Rainforest Vine's flowers are shaped in such a way to attract bat sonar. The flower isn't good for photosynthesis, but bats pollinate

Bed Bugs....notice how they were pretty dormant for years, now they pop back up and are hard to kill. Why? Because they evolved into bugs with waxlike exoskeleton that repels pesticides, a faster metabolism to create more of the bedbug's natural chemical defenses, and dominant mutations to block search-and-destroy pyrethroids.

X-Ray techs have been found to have excess Hydrogen Peroxide in their blood. They also found that the raised level of hydrogen peroxide triggered production of an antioxidant called glutathione, a protector of cells. Basically, these people's bodies are developing protections from their job, starting at the cellular level.

Cane Toads in Australia were introduced to kill beatles. They did, but ate everything else also. Everything should be ok, right? No. In this case, evolution backfired. The toads were mutating to have a very particular set of characteristics: longer legs, greater endurance, more speed. Those mutations allowed the newly evolved cane toads to move faster and spread further, but here's the thing: it actually made them less healthy. The faster toads had the highest mortality rates, and often developed spinal problems. It's called spacial sorting.

An example of adaptation would be the stray dogs of Moskow, Russia. They have learned that humans feed them, and they have learned to ride trains.

In short, yes, there is a big difference, but that doesn't mean "Evolution is BS".
 

hotcoffee

New Member
Why would he sit idly by and let man destroy the earth he worked so hard to create?

I guess I have a hard time wondering why God would wait so long to make his presense known again.

I also wonder why you think it will only be your God. Will Buddah come back? Vishnu?

Does he get along with other Gods?

Are there other Gods? I know the bible says, no, but how do we know that?

God doesn't sit idly by. He's working in people's lives every day. He's working in mine right now.

If you look back at the old Testament.... God told man how to take care of themselves. He told them not to use the bathroom inside the city where they lived. He told them what to eat and what not to. Man decided he needed indoor plumbing. Man decided he could eat the foods that God told him not to eat.

A few threads ago someone wanted to know how many babies God allowed to die in the flood. If He makes a move man doesn't like it and if He doesn't make a move man doesn't like it.....

Man is the problem here... not God....

I believe there is only one God.... Creator of Heaven and Earth....

God is setting everything up.... He controls time.... not man....

Well that's how I understand it anyway... but then again... I may be wrong... I would have probably thought the earth was flat back in the day.... can't tell...

:coffee:
 
Last edited:

PsyOps

Pixelated
Why would he sit idly by and let man destroy the earth he worked so hard to create?

For me, the question is: Why would He intervene? What kind of God would give us our own minds to make our own decisions only to jump in there and say “nope, not going to let you go there”. I think about it like our children; we give them just enough love and information to figure things out for themselves. Beyond that, don’t you want them making their own decisions and mistakes; learning lessons in life?

I guess I have a hard time wondering why God would wait so long to make his presense known again.

I also wonder why you think it will only be your God. Will Buddah come back? Vishnu?

Does he get along with other Gods?

Are there other Gods? I know the bible says, no, but how do we know that?

“Wait so long” according to whose time line? If God is eternal, His timeline is pretty long and “waiting so long is moot”. God has all the time in the universe to decide when He comes back and finishes things. We want to put God in a little box, and that box is our limited understanding of things. Ever heard the phrase “Let go, let God”? To me that means, try not to define God in such limited terms; our terms. If you believe He created everything (no matter how you believed that actually happened), and you believe He created LIFE, and you believe He is eternal (absolutely no beginning or no end), and that He understands every little intricacy of this universe to the most minute detail (because He created it), then you have to trust that God knows exactly what He’s doing and things will happen in His time; which could still be a very long time for us.

As to whether there are other Gods? I made my choice a long time ago. I guess, if you in that place in trying to decide, you will have to really dig deep and decide.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Man is the problem here... not God....

I get that you know what you're saying here, but I always felt Christians have to be careful with these kinds of statements. They set us up for “Well, why would God create beings that do such stupid things?”

God didn’t want us to be mindless robots that can’t do anything beyond the perfect touch of God. He wants us to live and learn; make mistakes and learn feelings like hurt, heartbreak, love and remorse; and reward for doing the right thing. I don’t think He saw any purpose in sheltering us from the realities of life. It’s exactly what responsible parents would do for their own kids.
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
Again, I say that the Bible is mostly metaphorical to use as a teaching point. Did God create the world in 7 days? What is 7 days to God? Time wasn't even invented then. Time is a measurement, just like an acre, foot, meter, etc.

Let there be light...big bang?

Created man...where does it say man looked like man today?

Filled the seas...science says earth was a swampy mess at first.

On and on...

So maybe I can settle with intelligent design. Man, however was given free will, I don't think you can purely DNA that explanation.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Again, I say that the Bible is mostly metaphorical to use as a teaching point. Did God create the world in 7 days? What is 7 days to God? Time wasn't even invented then. Time is a measurement, just like an acre, foot, meter, etc.

Let there be light...big bang?

Created man...where does it say man looked like man today?

Filled the seas...science says earth was a swampy mess at first.

On and on...

So maybe I can settle with intelligent design. Man, however was given free will, I don't think you can purely DNA that explanation.

I’m mostly with you on this. Although, if God is who the bible says He is, He most certainly could have created everything in a literal 7 days. But, given how nature actually operates, I just don’t think God would have manipulated His own rules of nature for the sake of expediency. I mean God had all the ‘time’ at his disposal to do things.

I mean, what lesson is to be learned that God created the universe in 7 days, yet allowed His people be held slaves for over 400 years?
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
For me, the question is: Why would He intervene? What kind of God would give us our own minds to make our own decisions only to jump in there and say “nope, not going to let you go there”. I think about it like our children; we give them just enough love and information to figure things out for themselves. Beyond that, don’t you want them making their own decisions and mistakes; learning lessons in life?

“Wait so long” according to whose time line? If God is eternal, His timeline is pretty long and “waiting so long is moot”. God has all the time in the universe to decide when He comes back and finishes things. We want to put God in a little box, and that box is our limited understanding of things. Ever heard the phrase “Let go, let God”? To me that means, try not to define God in such limited terms; our terms. If you believe He created everything (no matter how you believed that actually happened), and you believe He created LIFE, and you believe He is eternal (absolutely no beginning or no end), and that He understands every little intricacy of this universe to the most minute detail (because He created it), then you have to trust that God knows exactly what He’s doing and things will happen in His time; which could still be a very long time for us.

As to whether there are other Gods? I made my choice a long time ago. I guess, if you in that place in trying to decide, you will have to really dig deep and decide.

:buddies:

Cheers to one of the most well written, thought out, response I've seen on the subject of religion in a long, long time.

In the context of the Bible, and Christianity, I can completely understand the first part, and honestly something I hadn't really thought of before.

I know many people who aren't believers like to use the "why would God..." when talking about something bad that has happened in someone's life.

"Why would God give XYZ cancer"...In the Christian view, to make you stronger. In my opinion, that works both ways. One doesn't have to believe in God to realize that going through hardships makes one stronger in the end.

Personally, I feel there are definitely things science can't explain. There are also things religion can't explain. I feel the major difference between the two is that science is an ever-growing "organism", if you will, that continues to learn, and question what they do not know. Religion, or at least, religious fanatics, tend to just say, "well, God made it".

Does one not want to know? Does one not question the world around them? Or, should we sit by and let God take the wheel? Do you think we could have made so many advancements in science, especially medical science, if we relied solely on our collective God?
 

wxtornado

The Other White Meat
There is absolutely no controversy within science about the reality of evolution. There is a well accepted, solidly established body of evidence showing that evolution is real and, although knowledge of some of the mechanisms by which evolution occurs is incomplete, much is known about how evolution works.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
There is absolutely no controversy within science about the reality of evolution. There is a well accepted, solidly established body of evidence showing that evolution is real and, although knowledge of some of the mechanisms by which evolution occurs is incomplete, much is known about how evolution works.

And I would say that evolution does not disprove God. I don’t consider the bible an all-encompassing account of God’s creation and all the steps that occurred resulting in life and ultimately man. I think Christians should at least consider the possibility that God did not give us all the details, perhaps for two reasons:

1. He wanted us to try to figure it out

2. The bible was written in a time where reading and comprehension was extremely limited and God knew they would not understand the details. I don’t even think we could understand it today.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
God created man and we evolved.
God created the other species and they evolved.

....not very complicated in my mind.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
God created man and we evolved.
God created the other species and they evolved.

....not very complicated in my mind.

What exactly did we evolve from? What was the beginning of the evolutionary process? How long did this take? What overwhelming proof is there?
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
What exactly did we evolve from? What was the beginning of the evolutionary process? How long did this take? What overwhelming proof is there?

Psy, I think we are on the same page on this one.

We were made by our creator, the fact that we have changed (evolved) since Adam & Eve is there.

Different races, body styles, languages, physical and mental attributes, I believed have all "evolved".

I don't beleive we "evolved" from the primordial soup the evolutionists believe. Until they can determine when, where and what the first 'thing" developed an eye it's all BS.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Psy, I think we are on the same page on this one.

We were made by our creator, the fact that we have changed (evolved) since Adam & Eve is there.

Different races, body styles, languages, physical and mental attributes, I believed have all "evolved".

I don't beleive we "evolved" from the primordial soup the evolutionists believe. Until they can determine when, where and what the first 'thing" developed an eye it's all BS.

Agreed. But I was just trying to point out that it is complicated when you start asking questions. Just :elaine: a little.

I've always been of the thinking that I want to know these answers, but not having them doesn't diminish the existence of God. Folks that believe in the 'primoridal soup' theory fail to provide those answers too.
 

foodcritic

New Member
I hope no one think sI'm trying to de-bunk religion here.

There are definately things science can't explain, and I'm willing to admit that. Jealously, love, and emotion in general are things science can't really explain.

I think we live in times where religion and science can co-exist, if we want it to.

I doubt I'm more educated than anyone, because I honestly don't know much about many topics. The difference between myself, and others (not you, particularly) is that I am willing to learn. I don't close off my mind because I think a certain way.

Yes like how creation started, how things evolve etc. There are several "theories" floating around that seem to change often.
 
Top