CRE Are you ready for this?

[exnodak]

but please use the CRE personal forum as a means for organizing our efforts. I think using several approaches is necessary ---- hand out flyers and information on the corners (there's only so many ways in and out of CRE) is a very effective approach. And only so many people hop onto somd.com.

Get people to attend the membership meeting. But how about this? As members, isn't there a process for US to propose ballots of our own and make them appear on the ballot?

I'll personally dedicate a weekend to helping copy, to make posters, and to hand out flyers.

We also need responsible people to run for the board and board positions.... so the same cast of characters do not run unopposed.

I can't afford to pay my grocery bill, let alone give CRE more money to waste.

I thank you for this forum.

It will continue to serve as an organizational and information sharing medium. However, SOMD does not have the capacity to handle the rather large documents that everyone needs to see in order to make an informed decision. That means that a dedicated website be created as a place for
downloadable data.

I also agree that the exchange of information must be transparent and open giving all the same information at the same time in the same way. That is difficult here.

A movement for a series of townhall type meetings is warranted, but there simply isn't any place outside CRE large enough to hold all that SHOULD attend. I don't think its a movement yet. Just a few advance disgruntled persons. The real movement won't come around until people start getting their bills.

There is also a whole lot of homework that needs to be done by anyone that would like a leadership role in this effort. They need to start now. You just don't go around pointing fingers and crying "shame and blame" without knowing just what you are complaing about (outside your own home).

 

[hotcoffee]

To accuse the current board with hiding their meetings and workings... then meeting on a private forum to form a solution... would be the same thing...

That's why I would suggest doing it on SOMD Online.... we don't need a lot of space to publish documents if we are beginning fresh.... The cleaner the better.... digging through those old documents bogged down the last attempt to go to vote....

This needs to be kept very simple to succeed....

That's my opinion

 

[ms_mj]

Please count me in also. Our family will help out in any way we can. We are also tired of paying yearly and seeing absolutely no benefits from the outlay.

 

[woogie]

hotcoffee;

The Board of Directors and Corporate Officers of POACRE are bound
by law. rule and regulation to be transparent in their actions, meetings
and dealings with the members of the Corporation.

The citizens and members of the Corporation ARE NOT BOUND by ANY
of the above-mentioned when/if they choose to GATHER PRIVATELY
to discuss problems, talk strategy or simply air grievances. The First
Amendment of the United States Constitution protects these citizens
and their right of peaceable assembly. The Fourth Amendment protects
their privacy in these matters.

Remember, such a meeting is simply a gathering of individuals and NOT
an Official Meeting of an Organization. If it were an Official Meeting of
POACRE or any subset thereof, then the Sunshine Laws would require
such transparency. As an aspiring politician you should be a little more
familiar with things like law, rule, regulation and how they apply and who
they apply to. Especially when it comes to the Constitution!

But then again, most politcians don't seem to care about the Constitution
today ...

 

[punchbuggy]

What about returning ballots with no vote on them for the increase? Wouldn't that work?

 

[CREResident]

Using CRE Facilities

Since we CRE members own the amenities, can't we use the clubhouse to meet... and not pay because it's for our business. So what if Eney and the board shows up.... they should hear it... and they would not be controlling this meeting. Right?

 

[BOP]

but please use the CRE personal forum as a means for organizing our efforts. I think using several approaches is necessary ---- hand out flyers and information on the corners (there's only so many ways in and out of CRE) is a very effective approach. And only so many people hop onto somd.com.

Get people to attend the membership meeting. But how about this? As members, isn't there a process for US to propose ballots of our own and make them appear on the ballot?

I'll personally dedicate a weekend to helping copy, to make posters, and to hand out flyers.

We also need responsible people to run for the board and board positions.... so the same cast of characters do not run unopposed.

I can't afford to pay my grocery bill, let alone give CRE more money to waste.

You should really seek some help for those control issues you have.

 

[hotcoffee]

What about returning ballots with no vote on them for the increase? Wouldn't that work?

I don't know if that would work.... I thought of that at first but I wonder if they would count those ballots...

If it would work, then we need to get the word out to the majority of the members in good standing to vote that way.,,

We're going to have a problem with the vote this year... alot of our members cannot afford to be "in good standing".... so the vote count will be lower still...

Even if the member can't vote tho... they can inform members.... word of mouth is awesome....

Since we CRE members own the amenities, can't we use the clubhouse to meet... and not pay because it's for our business. So what if Eney and the board shows up.... they should hear it... and they would not be controlling this meeting. Right?

We should definitely attend the member meeting March 21st at 10AM.... Do you think we should be armed with our own ballot questions?

Why not meet here... on line? Is that an option?

 

[exnodak]

What about returning ballots with no vote on them for the increase? Wouldn't that work?

They just would not be counted.

Even if they got 1 vote back that was filled out, it would carry the election. That is why it is worded this way.

It is also the way the 1989 covenants vote was worded so that there was no negative response possible.

 

[exnodak]

We're going to have a problem with the vote this year... alot of our members cannot afford to be "in good standing".... so the vote count will be lower still...

If the vote is on changing the fees formula in the covenants, the "member in good standing" issue goes away. The covenants provide that "property owners" vote, NOT JUST ASSOCIATION MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING! And to top it off, those covenants still have Park Chesapeake and the Soundings named as voting members.

Simply put, the covenants are useless and need to be vacated and re-voted.

 

[Calidreamer]

What would happen if everyone just stopped paying their dues?? Or couldn't everyone get together and file a lawsuit against the board? I don't know how any of it works but seems to me if the board is receiving dues each year but the residents aren't seeing any of their dues put to good use or,as it sounds, any use at all other than lining the pockets of the board members, that something could be legally done. Couldn't you all boycott something and just all refuse to pay and then if the board tried to force you to pay or put a lein on your house or something then sue them? What about contacting the newspapers and TV stations and making a big public stink about the crap that seems to be going on? I dunno....I just know I would be really ticked off.

 

[Jbeckman]

All
Just a few thoughts:

I had mentioned somewhere my concern that the ballot may only be various options, and not an opt out/no option to an increase. I would say if people were to send back the ballot with a NO INCREASE written on them it would count but concern would be not voting at all (if the ballot is written in such a way as whichever gets the most votes goes) and if the members/owners don't even send in the ballot it may be a disaster.

Second...M&O fees are a convenant issue. Majority vote of owners...seperate from majority vote of Members in good standing...everyone (member/owner) gets to vote...don't receive a ballot, request same. And request an accounting of the ballot count....who's vote did they count. It should not be allowed to disregard any member/owner based on the covenant rules of who gets to vote.

What will be a majority...for the convenant change it should be a majority of owners/members (again not just in-good-standing) which should mean 50% +! of all members/owners. However, it they do a majority of just those who happen to cast a vote (again which should allow any member/owner vote to count since this is a convenant controled issue) it may be (if options are limited to CPI increase, CPI + five years past CPI, $100 (or whatever) with no NO INCREASE vote...whichever receives the most votes without requiring any significant number of votes.

I URGE EVERYONE TO VOTE REGARDLESS OF YOUR STANDING>>>and then ask for an accounting of whos ballot was counted. Send it in registered return receipt. They should not have who voted what way together, but there is accounting to who's votes they counted.

I urge people to meet, call the schools or community center to meet. Ask for the clubhouse....call it a member meeting or community forum...what ever, but not a membership or board meeting. Meet with a few to comment and come together to facilitate the meeting (have a little control on what is covered, note taking, name and number taking, questions, answers and plans to research and plan next meeting)

Talk to your neighbors.

Years ago, other HOA could work with government agencies to have their dues paid but held in escrow to determine what is being done with same and sunshine and other laws being followed. Don't know if this is possible or in existance. But it should the members were paying however, concerned on the services received and accountability.

Not paying dues, I don't know, honestly what would happen...especially with law suits filed regularly to obtain same by POACRE.

I would love to have more here to do...however, POACRE can't afford new when we can't afford and upkeep to great standards and better what we already have.
JMO

I can't afford an increase either. If they were to ask for a specific amount such as $50 this year only from all members to repair and update the kitchen to commercial and repair the condition of the clubhouse to make it more useable and "wanted" as an income generating item...that I may consider...it would be an investment to bring it back up and above and we could get more people to use same. But it would be a ONE TIME only and no way to get it "again" next year and on and on. Show me what is the outcome of making this change, how much more money did it earn, and then maybe we can talk about taking on another project that can earn income and pay for itself.

AGAIN>>>THERE ARE MEMBERS (Read you convenants) who pay a different set fee (doesn't say amount but they are either $10 or $35 per year). These owners/members can vote to change the M&O however, don't have to pay the increase themselves unless they choose to do so. And if you read you "new member" packet from POACRE it clearly states everyone pays the same fees.

I completely understand the costs have increased over the years. But alot of questions are what was being done all these years past. Show something with the reserve, or unused funds from previous year, it items for the whole or majority. Take money and address the lake. The bloom coming and going, toxins, coming and going, not acceptable. IMO this is part of what the reserve funds are for. Not just replacing a tractor, truck or railings, etc. Something is going on, going wrong at the lake. We need to spend money on it. It is a "written in the contract" amenity. I won't swim in it. I don't know personally anyone who will, would not let me kid swim in it. Wouldn't want someone in weaken health to swim in it. It should be useable for all. And if it is a nationwide issue...doesn't matter. What are we going to do about ours? Spend some funds (and they may be great) but it is a "used by more than most" in the amenity department. Now, appears to be used by none or hardly any.

 

[woogie]

Jbeckman;

If a vote is turned in with anthing other than a "yes"
or "no" or any other "choice" checked, it wil be marked
INVALID by the "teller committee" (usually made up of
selected members picked by the BoD themselves in order
to make sure the vote goes their way).

So any kind of "protest" vote will not count and won't
make any difference other than provide a brief bit of
amusement for the Bod and teller committee.

The ONLY way to effect change is to VOTE OUT THE
SITTING BOARD COMPLETELY! And also clean out ALL of
the old employees in Admin that have ties, background or
served on any past BoDs or committees as this would be a
coflict of interest.

Yes, I'm aware that the BoD presently has "rotating"terms,
but if the membership calls for a SPECIAL ELECTION (which
IS covered in the Constitution and By-Laws of the POACRE
Corporation), they CAN start over fresh! Also if a majority
of the members (I beleive the By-Laws say 100 in good
standing) call for a special meeting or any other special
event, then it MUST be held, whether the BoD likes it or
not!

If people "go on strike" and don't pay their dues/fees, then
POACRE will just ruin their credit ratings by placing liens on
their properties until the liens are paid. The best way to go
would be to organize and either VOTE OUT THE ENTIRE BoD
or organize and file a class-action suit against the BoD by
charging malfeasance, fraud, waste and abuse or other items.

A class-action suit COULD force the POACRE Corporation into
bankruptcy and THEN a court-appointed receiver would run
the place and there would be accountability again under pain
of the courts. This is what happened under the Levitt scandal
prior to POACRE. The homeowners would pay their dues/fees
to the COURT-APPOINTED RECEIVER and NOT to POACRE! The
homeowners would still be free to own, buy and sell their own
homes and lots, but not the common-properties.

Thinking oustide the box here based on experience.

 

[exnodak]

If you want a slam dunk class action suit, simply file an injunction against POACRE citing the failure to obtain legal authority to act as declarant to enforce the covenants; and for committing fraud in order to change the covenants in 89/90.

The evidence is unambiguous, and has never been tried in court.

Then, when the dust settles we can have a new covenant vote.

I still beleive we don't have bad people in these positions, but they are poorly served by their advisors and the documents we have given them.

 

[RoadKill]

"I still beleive we don't have bad people in these positions, but they are poorly served by their advisors and the documents we have given them."

Yep EXNODAK... you nailed it...

and I agree with your other quote...

"There is also a whole lot of homework that needs to be done by anyone that would like a leadership role in this effort. They need to start now. You just don't go around pointing fingers and crying "shame and blame" without knowing just what you are complaing about (outside your own home)."

Everyone wants something for nothing. The residents need to decide what they want from CRE, if anything, and what they are willing to pay for it, if anything. To date there have been no credible alternatives proposed. To suggest otherwise is an outright lie. Many of the posts in this and earlier threads are just pure nonsense, and are written by people with an axe to grind. If you want change you need to leave behind childish things, get involved, and make a positive difference. (And let me look at my crystal ball... "but we can't... the board will not give us access to this or that"... BS... you work hard enough, you put in the time, and you will achieve the results that you want). Please quit your whining.

Go for it EXNODAK... you're on the right track. I really like your tone compared to last year... don't attack the people... for the most part they are volunteers... just put a plan together to fix it.

 

[Jbeckman]

Back to the ballots.
The members are the ones who select and word the ballots (on this case at the suggestion of the BOD and finance committee)..so members need to be out in force at the March meeting and give their input. Those attending have to vote at the meeting to agree on the ballot, wording and sending it out at all (as long as their is a quorum). If no quorum BOD can call a special meeting, without quorum take a vote to have the ballot agreed by members in attendance and put out to the members as official ballot.

And, no matter what happens...if an HOA...everyone should be obligated to pay nothing or the same. Talk about difference classes of people!

 

[exnodak]

And, no matter what happens...if an HOA...everyone should be obligated to pay nothing or the same. Talk about difference classes of people!

Jackie,

Whether or not we like it (and I don't), the POACRE Board is the one that negotiated the different classes. They did it so that THEY wouldn't have to pay any increases that they knew had to be made with the newer covenants. They were just covering their own arses.

We now have an unbreakable contract with those people that enjoy the free ride so long as the covenants survive.

 

[slaphappynmd]

and I agree with your other quote...

"There is also a whole lot of homework that needs to be done by anyone that would like a leadership role in this effort. They need to start now. You just don't go around pointing fingers and crying "shame and blame" without knowing just what you are complaing about (outside your own home)."

That is what the current BoD does...

 

[CREResident]

Not Control Issues

You should really seek some help for those control issues you have.

I just don't want to air all our dirty laundry if not necessary. CRE already has a bad reputation...... and I'm trying to sell a house there....... dirty laundry on somd.com might deter a buyer from considering CRE. Despite all these issues... it's still a nice place to live... at least where our house is....

 

[CREResident]

Voting Out the Board

I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN VOTE OUT THE BOARD....IF NO ONE IS WILLING TO RUN AGAINST CURRENT BOARD MEMBERS. MOST OF THE TIME, THEY RUN UNOPPOSED..... WHO'S WILLING TO RUN?

Jbeckman;

If a vote is turned in with anthing other than a "yes"
or "no" or any other "choice" checked, it wil be marked
INVALID by the "teller committee" (usually made up of
selected members picked by the BoD themselves in order
to make sure the vote goes their way).

So any kind of "protest" vote will not count and won't
make any difference other than provide a brief bit of
amusement for the Bod and teller committee.

The ONLY way to effect change is to VOTE OUT THE
SITTING BOARD COMPLETELY! And also clean out ALL of
the old employees in Admin that have ties, background or
served on any past BoDs or committees as this would be a
coflict of interest.

Yes, I'm aware that the BoD presently has "rotating"terms,
but if the membership calls for a SPECIAL ELECTION (which
IS covered in the Constitution and By-Laws of the POACRE
Corporation), they CAN start over fresh! Also if a majority
of the members (I beleive the By-Laws say 100 in good
standing) call for a special meeting or any other special
event, then it MUST be held, whether the BoD likes it or
not!

If people "go on strike" and don't pay their dues/fees, then
POACRE will just ruin their credit ratings by placing liens on
their properties until the liens are paid. The best way to go
would be to organize and either VOTE OUT THE ENTIRE BoD
or organize and file a class-action suit against the BoD by
charging malfeasance, fraud, waste and abuse or other items.

A class-action suit COULD force the POACRE Corporation into
bankruptcy and THEN a court-appointed receiver would run
the place and there would be accountability again under pain
of the courts. This is what happened under the Levitt scandal
prior to POACRE. The homeowners would pay their dues/fees
to the COURT-APPOINTED RECEIVER and NOT to POACRE! The
homeowners would still be free to own, buy and sell their own
homes and lots, but not the common-properties.

Thinking oustide the box here based on experience.