CRE Are you ready for this?

[vemoon]

This is rich indeed.

I have tangible physical printed, signed, and legally recorded evidence which proves my point...legally.

Then the mental giant that you are wants to take a position that because there MIGHT be information held by LAWYERS and not made available to MEMBERS that I MIGHT not have all the information? AND that information that MIGHT exist has never been seen or heard of by YOU, but you still you will NOT believe what EXISTS FOR ALL TO SEE but you instead choose to believe in what MIGHT or MIGHT not be as if it were the last word?

WHAT IDIOPOLIS DO YOU COME FROM????

I would be interested in sitting down with you and reviewing this tangible physical printed, signed and legally recorded evidence that you have. Like I have said before I have researched this issue myself and would just like to bring it to an end, no matter which end that may be.

Veronica

 

[Redmane]

Exnodak,

Waging the battle of the illegal corporate documents on a forum such as this seems ineffective. What exactly is your goal?

Certainly slamming anyone with a differing opinion from yours labels you or makes you appear a bully instead of furthering your cause (whatever it is). Is that your intention?

Jennie

 

[exnodak]

Exnodak,

Waging the battle of the illegal corporate documents on a forum such as this seems ineffective. What exactly is your goal?

Certainly slamming anyone with a differing opinion from yours labels you or makes you appear a bully instead of furthering your cause (whatever it is). Is that your intention?

Jennie

I couldn't agree with you more about the effectiveness of discussing things here. There just isn't anything else, and I can never gauge how many might read without participating.

I only slam in rebuttal. If someone comes up with a stupid statement, I can't refrain from pointing out the obvious. I get a lot more than I recieve in this department.

My goal is not open for discussion other than to say it is NOT to destroy POACRE. I know it looks that way, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

 

[OmyGawd]

This is rich indeed.

I have tangible physical printed, signed, and legally recorded evidence which proves my point...legally.

Then the mental giant that you are wants to take a position that because there MIGHT be information held by LAWYERS and not made available to MEMBERS that I MIGHT not have all the information? AND that information that MIGHT exist has never been seen or heard of by YOU, but you still you will NOT believe what EXISTS FOR ALL TO SEE but you instead choose to believe in what MIGHT or MIGHT not be as if it were the last word?

WHAT IDIOPOLIS DO YOU COME FROM????

Insult me all you want, but it still doesn't prove a damn thing. Why not bring it all to a meeting and lay it out for all to see instead of the "mental giants" who are actually trying to get you to prove something.

You complain about being insulted all the time but when confronted and asked simple questions you do the insulting. Insufferable you are.

Ans you STILL haven't answered my question as to whether or not you enforced the covenants as the interim GM?

Ok as to the quip about the CPI increase hurting everyone here, what then gives you the right to complain about it while raising the water fees? POACRE has every right to put to a vote but you complain about it yet we have no right to ask about raising the water fees?

 

[OmyGawd]

I couldn't agree with you more about the effectiveness of discussing things here. There just isn't anything else, and I can never gauge how many might read without participating.

I only slam in rebuttal. If someone comes up with a stupid statement, I can't refrain from pointing out the obvious. I get a lot more than I recieve in this department.

My goal is not open for discussion other than to say it is NOT to destroy POACRE. I know it looks that way, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

If you are trying to overturn the governing documents of POACRE then that is in the end the goal of destroying POACRE. If that is not the case then those of us asking have a right to know why and what your final objective is. Explain your actual objective and maybe we'll understand your motivations.

 

[Redmane]

I couldn't agree with you more about the effectiveness of discussing things here. There just isn't anything else, and I can never gauge how many might read without participating.

This could be a great meduim if used properly. It's too bad it's used for negativity more than not.

I would be interested in a face to face meeting with you on your findings with VEMOON as well. I don't pretend to be a legal eagle, in fact, I am the opposite. I just want to understand.

 

[hotcoffee]

All votes should count, there is no question about that. They should be affected as well, not just be able to raise our rates without any penalty.

i will be interested to see how far exnodak gets in his pursuit of divorcing himself from the HOA. if it works for him, i am next. I dont mind paying my share, but this place has been mismanaged since i have been here, and i would rather have a justly elected governement with some accountablity instead.

As much as it may pain some... I agree with these two statement....

My dues are paid... this might be a very interesting year.... because I plan to check out the validity of these claims.... I've seen the original vote tally from 89.... even if the archives were to go missing tonight... I remember what I saw and what I brought to the meeting in June last year.... might even have a copy here.... I'm hoping ex is right....

 

[FastCarsSpeed]

If you are trying to overturn the governing documents of POACRE then that is in the end the goal of destroying POACRE. If that is not the case then those of us asking have a right to know why and what your final objective is. Explain your actual objective and maybe we'll understand your motivations.

I love how you like to twist things around. EXO has repeatedly said that the goal is to not destroy POACRE but to make POACRE whole. He has been saying over and over again that what POACRE is currently working under is illegal and done under false pretenses because of how things were handled in history. He has said that what he is asking for is things to be corrected. If that means dissolving the Association and starting again so be it. I am a member in good standing and I am soo tired of this crap.

I agree with other posters that anytime an increase is on a ballot all members of the community that "WILL" have to pay those fees or have the fees levied against them should be the ones and the "ONLY" ones to vote on them. how is it that members that pay the reduced fees get to make those decisions. If they would like to remove themselves from the reduced fees officially then and only then should they be able to vote on increases.

 

[exnodak]

If you are trying to overturn the governing documents of POACRE then that is in the end the goal of destroying POACRE. If that is not the case then those of us asking have a right to know why and what your final objective is. Explain your actual objective and maybe we'll understand your motivations.

The difference between us seems to be that you think POACRE is an entity consisting only of paper authority that CAN be destroyed. I, on the other hand believe that POACRE is the property owners and the property. Neither can be destroyed.

Fraudulent governing documents corrupt the organization and create a cancer which builds blood supply to illegitamate cells. The only way to heal the sick is to cut out the cancer.

For example: Doesn't anyone think that out of a Roads Budget of about 3/4 Million dollars that only $27,000 found its way toward the purchase of road maintenance material?

 

[OmyGawd]

I love how you like to twist things around. EXO has repeatedly said that the goal is to not destroy POACRE but to make POACRE whole. He has been saying over and over again that what POACRE is currently working under is illegal and done under false pretenses because of how things were handled in history. He has said that what he is asking for is things to be corrected. If that means dissolving the Association and starting again so be it. I am a member in good standing and I am soo tired of this crap.

I agree with other posters that anytime an increase is on a ballot all members of the community that "WILL" have to pay those fees or have the fees levied against them should be the ones and the "ONLY" ones to vote on them. how is it that members that pay the reduced fees get to make those decisions. If they would like to remove themselves from the reduced fees officially then and only then should they be able to vote on increases.

Then maybe he needs to choose his words more carefully. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that is his goal based on his words. If you read them differently that is your choice.

As for the other thing about the vote, I agree there. Those who do not pay the full amount should not have the right to determine whether or not my fees should be raised. When those 80 or so people start paying their full share then they can determine my fees.

 

[OmyGawd]

The difference between us seems to be that you think POACRE is an entity consisting only of paper authority that CAN be destroyed. I, on the other hand believe that POACRE is the property owners and the property. Neither can be destroyed.

Fraudulent governing documents corrupt the organization and create a cancer which builds blood supply to illegitimate cells. The only way to heal the sick is to cut out the cancer.

For example: Doesn't anyone think that out of a Roads Budget of about 3/4 Million dollars that only $27,000 found its way toward the purchase of road maintenance material?

Then exactly what is this place without the governing documents? The Association is the people and the land, that much is true, but without the documents to hold it together then there is nothing. Control might be a bad word but without some sort of governance there is chaos. Who maintains the amenities, etc? But if you feel that is better that is your opinion. And you are entitled to that, as I am entitled to what I think. As I have said before if you are correct in your assessment the so be it. But if so what is your plan to fix everything?

 

[exnodak]

Then exactly what is this place without the governing documents? The Association is the people and the land, that much is true, but without the documents to hold it together then there is nothing. Control might be a bad word but without some sort of governance there is chaos. Who maintains the amenities, etc? But if you feel that is better that is your opinion. And you are entitled to that, as I am entitled to what I think. As I have said before if you are correct in your assessment the so be it. But if so what is your plan to fix everything?

Its just a place. A very nice place. governing documents don't make it a good or bad place. Well...maybe a bad place seeing as how POACRE has the lowest valuation of homes in the county in a place that should be commanding top dollar. I hold the POACRE covenants and bylaws accountable for that problem.

There just simply isn't any evidence when you compare a home immediately outside CRE to an equivalent one inside CRE that the POACRE organization makes one hoot or holler of positve difference. Only a negative difference.

Are the cliffs going to erode FASTER? Is the lake going to dry up and disappear? Are the airplanes going to fall out of the sky? What is going to happen to the amenities in ANY case that isn't happening right now from lack of attention?

Chaos? That is simply fright speak. Of course it is more orderly with governing docs, but since 89 the county has completely overhauled and modernized the county codes making most of the covenants archaic by comparison. Besides, the County has a sheriff and code enforcement officers to enforce the codes. We are already paying their wages. Let us get the full benefit of their service. There will be no chaos because we already have a full set of governing documents: County and State constitutional law.

Now that the County has full easement over our roads, it is time to stop the double taxation. There is no reason that POACRE residents should have to pay both an STD and general obligation taxes on roads that are occupied by a general county easement. Since '07, we have been double taxed in a manner that is a violation of Title 42 USC 1983 and 1985. Look em up.

Of course there will be a power struggle over the reconstruction of documents, but we already have that too.

 

[hotcoffee]

Then exactly what is this place without the governing documents?

Without the governing documents we currently read, we are a community of people who share common property. We are a Property Owners Association, not a Home Owners Association.... there is a huge difference.

Who maintains the amenities, etc?

No one is maintaining the amenities now. Even on this thread it has been stated that the members are mowing the grass at the airport... as they do at the gardens and the stables.... The maintenance department only picks up the trash bags that the members fill... the toilet in the lady's bathroom in the clubhouse doesn't work properly and there has been a broken shade on the lights out on the deck for several years.... no one maintains the amenities now.... maybe the revamp that would occur if the ex is correct would correct that situation.... We have great amenities and we should be maintaining them.... if we were spending less money on whales, "security", and certified letters to telling people where they can place their trash can... we might be able to upgrade them a little or hire a plumber....

But if you feel that is better that is your opinion. As I have said before if you are correct in your assessment the so be it.

This idea is so radical to those currently working on the committees and the board.... that they refuse to look at it. If we had seriously considered it a couple years ago, we would have been much closer to the end of the discussion by now....

But if so what is your plan to fix everything?

Now that's a really good question... some of us should be working on that now.... just in case there is to be a "so be it"... We don't want to create a vacuum...

 

[frequentflier]

Without the governing documents we currently read, we are a community of people who share common property. We are a Property Owners Association, not a Home Owners Association.... there is a huge difference.



No one is maintaining the amenities now. Even on this thread it has been stated that the members are mowing the grass at the airport... as they do at the gardens and the stables.... The maintenance department only picks up the trash bags that the members fill... the toilet in the lady's bathroom in the clubhouse doesn't work properly and there has been a broken shade on the lights out on the deck for several years.... no one maintains the amenities now.... maybe the revamp that would occur if the ex is correct would correct that situation.... We have great amenities and we should be maintaining them.... if we were spending less money on whales, "security", and certified letters to telling people where they can place their trash can... we might be able to upgrade them a little or hire a plumber....



As usual, Becky, you take something and twist it into something else. We maintain the airport because we want to maintain it. Those of us that do so take pride in our surroundings and do not want to burden the maintenance department with the task. No one has forced me help take care of this amenity. I VOLUNTEER.
Just as another poster stated: maybe some people should start volunteering to help paint and rebuild. Even with a new board and new insights and ideas, things are not going to happen overnight.
If you really care: volunteer to make it better! A little bit of effort can go a long way!

 

[frequentflier]

I was also wondering something else. Please don't beat me up for this people. If it isn't being done already, what if every month or so a group of members were to volunteer time to clean up or fix up some of these amentities that are being neglected. Just like what the folks are doing who use the air strip. I realize this isn't ideal and the money should come from our member fees and there is a maintainance crew, I'm assuming. At this time though this stuff isn't being done. A couple hours time on a weekend can end up helping property values in the long run. Not to mention the enjoyment people will get when they see how nice the stuff can be again. Just a thought...be nice...please....

This makes a lot of sense!

 

[woogie]

Power corrupts...and ABSOLUTE power corrupts ABSOLUTELY!

Enjoy your "ABSOLUTELY" wonderful Board!

You get what you deserve and you deserve what you get!

What? No comment?

Yeah. That's right. You all are FORBIDDEN by your Board to comment!

So you continue to beat this dead horse to draw attention away from
the corruption, malfeasance, fraud and mismanagement.

 

[stsssn]

Power corrupts...and ABSOLUTE power corrupts ABSOLUTELY!

Enjoy your "ABSOLUTELY" wonderful Board!

You get what you deserve and you deserve what you get!

What? No comment?

Yeah. That's right. You all are FORBIDDEN by your Board to comment!

So you continue to beat this dead horse to draw attention away from
the corruption, malfeasance, fraud and mismanagement.

I do not understand your hostility or argument. I am not trying to challenge why you have the hostility. I am sure, as with the case of many residents here, it is completely justifiable.

The arguments are not clear to me. 9% of the residents voted. That is unacceptable if we expect to have any grievances addressed. But you say we deserve what we get. The BOD is not responsible to fix, maintain or do anything except represent the community. 9% of the community cares.
Maybe they did get exactly what they wanted.

Every member has the right to implement anything they want. We are granted permission to fix whatever offends us. I bet many members would support the fix in many cases.

We do not need permission from anyone to pick up trash or mow the grass. We could establish teams to fix whatever amenity we want. Raise the funds independent of POACRE if need be.

Saying the BOD is the problem is short sighted in my humble opinion. The members and property owners make or break this place.

What happens when the County has to step in. It will be fair all right. Taxes will go through the roof! The majority of the county do not live in POACRE as EX pointed out earlier.

Who will run for municipality/ county government and get elected? The same people who have time to do it now.

Not paying the fees or voting does nothing except guarantee we are headed to insolvency. It will be out of our hands when that happens. Maybe we are not responsible or mature enough as a community to handle democracy.

 

[thatguy]

I do not understand your hostility or argument. I am not trying to challenge why you have the hostility. I am sure, as with the case of many residents here, it is completely justifiable.

The arguments are not clear to me. 9% of the residents voted. That is unacceptable if we expect to have any grievances addressed. But you say we deserve what we get. The BOD is not responsible to fix, maintain or do anything except represent the community. 9% of the community cares.
Maybe they did get exactly what they wanted.

Every member has the right to implement anything they want. We are granted permission to fix whatever offends us. I bet many members would support the fix in many cases.

We do not need permission from anyone to pick up trash or mow the grass. We could establish teams to fix whatever amenity we want. Raise the funds independent of POACRE if need be.

Saying the BOD is the problem is short sighted in my humble opinion. The members and property owners make or break this place.

What happens when the County has to step in. It will be fair all right. Taxes will go through the roof! The majority of the county do not live in POACRE as EX pointed out earlier.

Who will run for municipality/ county government and get elected? The same people who have time to do it now. Nope, people with actual political aspirations, not retirees and house wives

Not paying the fees or voting does nothing except guarantee we are headed to insolvency. It will be out of our hands when that happens. Maybe we are not responsible or mature enough as a community to handle democracy.

i think we can handle democracy just fine, its the running of a cooproration that we are having a tough time at.....

also, we already pay dues, why should we have to do that AND take care of what we are paying for ourselves?
I know the only time trash gets picked up on my road is when i or the neighbors do it, yet we are still paying for the POACRE maintenance crews.
We pay ~$200/year for a roads fee but they don't provide any appreciable service for that money, instead they have the county collect a DOUBLE TAX THAT WE DIDN"T GET TO VOTE ON.

like i said before, i really hope we get a real govenrment with some accountability soon.

 

[punchbuggy]

The membership has no clue what we can work on as a community. We don't need extra newsletters full of fluff that don't really tell us anything...a postcard and posting on the website and here & the signboards is all that is needed. Keep posting and working towards a common goal(s). It may take several times for the word to get around that there's an annual paint party or monthly something or other....I'm sure there are kids in the community that need community service hours for school along with homeowners willing to pitch in for a few hours a month. I sure would.

 

[hotcoffee]

As usual, Becky, you take something and twist it into something else. We maintain the airport because we want to maintain it. Those of us that do so take pride in our surroundings and do not want to burden the maintenance department with the task. No one has forced me help take care of this amenity. I VOLUNTEER.
Just as another poster stated: maybe some people should start volunteering to help paint and rebuild. Even with a new board and new insights and ideas, things are not going to happen overnight.
If you really care: volunteer to make it better! A little bit of effort can go a long way!

I am so happy that you are happy to mow the grass at the airport. Most of the volunteers do enjoy what they are doing and they do take pride in their work... on that we agree.....

BUT... when the other groups... like the stables and the gardens... who pay their way [give money to the association above their dues ... a user fee....] they look at the budget and ask why they are charged for mowing grass that they are doing themselves....

I never meant to say anyone minds doing it.... they wouldn't do it if they didn't want to.... the question is... why is grass mowing, or clubhouse repair for that matter... in the budget if it's not being done? The question is... why isn't it getting done?

As for my volunteer work... I've been a volunteer in and around my community for the past 11 years.... this year, I will be doing more at my daughter's high school.... I do volunteer... and I'm glad to do it... just as you are...

Before June says it... June put a roof on the stable... June, Scott and a couple others saw a need and went to work... but wouldn't it have been nice, June, if the stable dues and the M&O funds were actually used to maintain and upgrade that barn so it didn't cave in? Sure the people at the stables work hard ... and pay their own way... the stables is always in the black... but wouldn't it be nice if the mowing outside the fence was done by the maintenance crew so they could spend their time doing something else that needs doing? Just a thought....