Flynn’s fall should have the intel community in the hot seat

[Wishbone]

I've known people to lie over very stupid ####.

Lying is enough to say he had to go.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

It's been reported that it was high level officials within the CIA.

If you're saying it was the FBI that leaked the Clinton thing, where are you getting this? I already answered to that; that it was alleged that Russia leaked it to Wikileaks. Wikileaks has denied this as a source and stated it refuses to disclose who the source was.

I'm not saying that.

A lot of things were reported but I didn't fully believe what was reported after the Clinton fiasco, and I don't fully believe this one (that CIA leaked it). You, and others, may choose to, but that's your prerogative.

My stance isn't really about the rights and wrongs of what they did individually, but the negative side effects of a willing electorate giving our secret intelligence communities wide leverage to essentially do what they want.

 

[Midnightrider]

You're going to have to ask Flynn why he lied. In any event, that is reason Trump gave for firing him; they lost confidence in him. You either believe him or you don't.

that might be the reason he gave, but it doesn't add up considering Trump knew Flynn had lied to pence and didn't tell pence.

President Trump was reportedly told six days into his presidency that his former national security adviser Michael Flynn misled the vice president about his phone calls with Russia, but did not tell his second-in-command.

Trump, after learning about the phone calls, kept Vice President Pence in the dark about Flynn’s conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, the Associated Press reported Tuesday, citing White House officials.

Pence and other officials emphatically defended Flynn in the weeks leading up to his resignation.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...in-dark-about-flynns-russian-phone-calls.html

 

[Kev_Russell]

I'm afraid that's precisely the difference. What you think it means and what I think it means matter or else we aren't talking about the same thing.

When I'm at work, and people mention "office politics" or "being political" they don't mean governing the country.
When I'm in a social group like a PTA or HOA, and someone is playing a political game, it doesn't mean resolving social issues.

It translates into self promotion. It's using the existing structure to promote yourself in the existing community. It's one-upmanship.
People in these small associations do character assassination and stunts to advance themselves.

I don't see that with intelligence agencies, whose principal mission is to gather intelligence - and when authorized, to act on it.
Toppling a foreign government or arm twisting a deal with another country - as I see it - is self-preservation. You do it in the interest of your country.
It's only politics if you do it in the interest of a person - or a party.

And I don't think an intelligence agency is supposed to make an "enemy" of people in the government not because they pose a threat to the nation,
but because they threaten your legacy or threaten your pet project. Do you really think Flynn - or Trump - is an "enemy" to this country?

Dude, I have no idea what tangent you are on. This ain't the PTA or HOA or the management council of Girl Scout Troop #497.

This is actual geopolitics. The problem is that you're comments here are attempting to describe things as the way you think they ought to be. There's that and there's real world.

These are human beings, and they have political thoughts and agendas. That's why they went into this line of work, to topple governments/leaders, etc.

The problem here is that Trump is so wrapped up in his own narcissism, he thinks he's playing checkers with a 6 year old. In fact, the skill set that's required here is that of playing chess against Gary Kasparov.

Putin is playing this child like a fiddle. I think many forget the genesis of V. Putin.

 

[Kev_Russell]

And by extension, the people of the US have removed a foreign power and formed a govt. they want across the middle east and beyond (think, regime change) for decades.

I wouldn't consider those changes a success.

I don't want to speak for him/her, but Kev_Russell may be eluding to that. Our intelligence community has been involved in govt. changes for a long time now. It was only a matter of time before it came back to bite us.

Unfortunately, a naïve electorate thought it'd be a good idea to expand their powers after 9/11 under the guise of "safety".

Right. You're following along.

There's this oft-repeated idea that people get surprised when they vote to give power to government and then government actually uses that power ---- on them. It's like they hadn't even considered that. They figured it was for that other guy over there.

As I've stated many times here, an intelligence apparatus that is big and powerful enough to topple foreign government is big and powerful enough to topple their own government. Let that sink in a bit and then reconsider today's scenario.

Forget what the "rules" say they are and are not supposed to do. Live in reality.

 

[Larry Gude]

Right. You're following along.

There's this oft-repeated idea that people get surprised when they vote to give power to government and then government actually uses that power ---- on them. It's like they hadn't even considered that. They figured it was for that other guy over there.

As I've stated many times here, an intelligence apparatus that is big and powerful enough to topple foreign government is big and powerful enough to topple their own government. Let that sink in a bit and then reconsider today's scenario.

Forget what the "rules" say they are and are not supposed to do. Live in reality.

That's the best post I've read from you so far. Good one.

 

[PsyOps]

I'm not saying that.

A lot of things were reported but I didn't fully believe what was reported after the Clinton fiasco, and I don't fully believe this one (that CIA leaked it). You, and others, may choose to, but that's your prerogative.

My stance isn't really about the rights and wrongs of what they did individually, but the negative side effects of a willing electorate giving our secret intelligence communities wide leverage to essentially do what they want.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with who leaked the Clinton email crap to Wikileaks. You seem to know who did it. I'm asking, in light of Assange saying it wasn't Russia and he isn't divulging his source, how you know who it is, and who is it?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with who leaked the Clinton email crap to Wikileaks. You seem to know who did it. I'm asking, in light of Assange saying it wasn't Russia and he isn't divulging his source, how you know who it is, and who is it?

It has to do with it because in both cases we don't know who did it. It could be the CIA. It could be soviet-era KGB tactics from Russia.

It has to do with it because regardless of WHO leaked it, the right cheered those leaks then, including Trump. Now that it's flipped around, Trump is claiming to go after "low-life leakers".

 

[PsyOps]

that might be the reason he gave, but it doesn't add up considering Trump knew Flynn had lied to pence and didn't tell pence.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...in-dark-about-flynns-russian-phone-calls.html

You provide an article that states "President Trump was reportedly told..." I don't like articles that don't provide the 'reported' sources. Be that as it may, I'm not arguing against or for what Trump might have known. I'm simply saying that Trump expressed that he lost confidence in Flynn and asked for his resignation. Beyond that, I haven't seen anything where Flynn did anything illegal.

 

[PsyOps]

It has to do with it because in both cases we don't know who did it. It could be the CIA. It could be soviet-era KGB tactics from Russia.

It has to do with it because regardless of WHO leaked it, the right cheered those leaks then, including Trump. Now that it's flipped around, Trump is claiming to go after "low-life leakers".

I'm not cheering any of it. However, what Clinton did was immensely worse that what Flynn did. And worse, the entire Obama admin knew it was going on and did nothing. So, they all are complicit in putting national security at risk - your life, your kids' lives, my life, everyone - all so she can cover up her dealings with foreign nationals and her foundation. Flynn made a phone call and the left - the same people defended Clinton's crimes - YES CRIMES - is flipping out over it.

It's one thing to leak information that is protected and classified; it's quite another to leak something that was ILLEGAL. If Clinton's server was leaked by someone in one of our agencies, they leaked illegalities. They're supposed to do that.

 

[Kev_Russell]

You provide an article that states "President Trump was reportedly told..." I don't like articles that don't provide the 'reported' sources. Be that as it may, I'm not arguing against or for what Trump might have known. I'm simply saying that Trump expressed that he lost confidence in Flynn and asked for his resignation. Beyond that, I haven't seen anything where Flynn did anything illegal.

He violated the Logan Act.

 

[Bann]

He violated the Logan Act.

Link to your source?

 

[PsyOps]

He violated the Logan Act.

So you have information that Flynn did some sort of negotiating with a foreign government?

 

[Kev_Russell]

So you have information that Flynn did some sort of negotiating with a foreign government?

It's been covered here. Don't be dumb.

 

[PsyOps]

It's been covered here. Don't be dumb.

Indulge me. Source?

 

[Kev_Russell]

Indulge me. Source?

Do you believe a conversation took place between Flynn and Ambassador Kislyak?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I'm not cheering any of it. However, what Clinton did was immensely worse that what Flynn did. And worse, the entire Obama admin knew it was going on and did nothing. So, they all are complicit in putting national security at risk - your life, your kids' lives, my life, everyone - all so she can cover up her dealings with foreign nationals and her foundation. Flynn made a phone call and the left - the same people defended Clinton's crimes - YES CRIMES - is flipping out over it.

It's one thing to leak information that is protected and classified; it's quite another to leak something that was ILLEGAL. If Clinton's server was leaked by someone in one of our agencies, they leaked illegalities. They're supposed to do that.

I'm not arguing the seriousness of the leaks, but the right as a whole loved when Comey said they'd be investigating her.

None of this is my point though.

 

[PsyOps]

I'm not arguing the seriousness of the leaks, but the right as a whole loved when Comey said they'd be investigating her.

None of this is my point though.

Everyone should have loved to see Clinton not only investigated, but indicted. She broke the law. She put our national security at risk. It is not considered a leak of classified information when someone is exposed for breaking the law. Her server was not put in place by an official government agency with all the protection measures put in place. In fact, she potential put classified information at risk of being leaked by having the server in the first place.

 

[Midnightrider]

You provide an article that states "President Trump was reportedly told..." I don't like articles that don't provide the 'reported' sources. Be that as it may, I'm not arguing against or for what Trump might have known. I'm simply saying that Trump expressed that he lost confidence in Flynn and asked for his resignation. Beyond that, I haven't seen anything where Flynn did anything illegal.

Reportedly by several sources... they almost never name their source. Remember deepthroat?


But it seems Flynn also lied to the FBI. It's getting deeper
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...63470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.c813cfb8ff44