Hell Versus The Mercy And Justice Of God

[VoteJP]

Mr Short-Bus.

I'll try again... What does that word (believe) mean? When it is translated from the Greek to English, what is the literal meaning of it?

I really thought you meant what does "believe" mean in the context of John 3:16 as you quoted that above your questions.

As to its literal meaning then I can only give an English dictionary definition = believe.

I do not know anything otherwise that it means from Greek to English.

Please do tell?

 

[VoteJP]

Mr Short-Bus.

Hum thats not what my Bible says! You hung yourself with the Father.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God (Plural) created the heavens and the earth.

Instead of using a verse to make a point how about validating scripture with scripture.
By the way there are two other verses but I forgot were they are located.

The Father God was the creator and Jesus the word was the helper.

John 1:3 "All things were made through him,"

 

[PsyOps]

I really thought you meant what does "believe" mean in the context of John 3:16 as you quoted that above your questions.

As to its literal meaning then I can only give an English dictionary definition = believe.

I do not know anything otherwise that it means from Greek to English.

Please do tell?

Yes, in the context of John 3:16, what does the word "believe" mean? Don't give me other verses in an attempt to show me how much you know about the Bible. Not some dictionary definition that gives us the English definition of the word. I want to read in your own words what you think it means as it is translated from the ancient Greek to English.

 

[thatguy]

He rejects Jesus Christ as being God and if he wasn't fully God and fully man than his sacrifice could not acquire salvation for anyone.
Man need another man to pay his sin debt, but no man was qualified except for Christ as he led a perfect sinless life. Without being God he would have been sinful, as well as not fulfilled his own covenant he made with Abraham. Only the smoking pot, a preincarnate Christ passed between the two half's and since Abraham was asleep and Abraham broke the covenant with God, God was required to die. He fulfilled that on the cross.

So his theology is wack, in that a federal head of Christ is OK when it suits his purpose of stating his false doctrine, but he denies the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. His god cant save anyone as it doesn't exist. His jesus is only a prophet which cant be a good man, as according to JPC he lies about who he says that he is, never mind that the Jews believed him enough to want to, and did kill him for it, although he defeated death. I sometimes wonder if he ever read the Old testament, as his god is not the one spoken of there. In fact that God doesn't exist in his ramblings.
Tell us JPC, where did he disappear to in your theology?

hang on, jesus was crucified for desecrating the temple and blasphme, not for being god. IF the jews believed he was actually god as you say then it wouldn't have been blasphemous for him to claim so.......

 

[PsyOps]

hang on, jesus was crucified for desecrating the temple and blasphme, not for being god. IF the jews believed he was actually god as you say then it wouldn't have been blasphemous for him to claim so.......

That's why Jesus was crucified; for claiming He was the Son of God and Jews, the leaders of the Sanhedrin, didn't believe Him. In Jewish faith, claiming you are the Messiah when you are not is blasphemy.

 

[VoteJP]

Mr Short-Bus.

Yes, in the context of John 3:16, what does the word "believe" mean? Don't give me other verses in an attempt to show me how much you know about the Bible. Not some dictionary definition that gives us the English definition of the word. I want to read in your own words what you think it means as it is translated from the ancient Greek to English.

Then I do not know what you want.

I myself believe in Jesus and He was sent from God.

The Bible verses I gave do represent how I believe, and the dictionary gives my only definition of the word.

If you know of some extra meaning to the word there then surely it is up to your self to declare it.

In this case I say the word simply means to "believe" and nothing else.

 

[hvp05]

The Bible verses I gave do represent how I believe, and the dictionary gives my only definition of the word.

Of course, we all know how you float from one perspective to another without concern for how terribly you contradict yourself.

You are known to redefine words and ignore common understandings if something does not fit your want. Such as in the "Can a Christian Be an Atheist?" thread over on the Baltimore Sun Forums, where you persist in saying atheists do believe in god despite the fact that they - and every dictionary in existence - say they do not...

You are just giving far too much credence to the name of "Atheist" as if they have no God just because they say they do not.

It is as wrong as viewing Christians declaring the true God just because they say they are.

They are both wrong while both still do have important truths mixed in with their errors.

Many religious people that claim to know God really do not, as most are just superstitious idolaters.

And Atheist just use different names for God as in saying it is a "natural" thing, or a part of "nature", or mother-nature, and similar things like that since "nature" is just another name for a God.

So long as we do not put a rigged definition on the "God" thing, and we are looking for truths, then we surely can be an Atheist and a Christian at the same time, because "God" is not trapped inside of human definitions.

 

[VoteJP]

Mr Short-Bus.

... you persist in saying atheists do believe in god despite the fact that they - and every dictionary in existence - say they do not...

What I actually say is that Atheist and science do show proofs of God whether they "believe" it or not.

My point was that the person's "belief" means very little as it does not matter if anyone believes in the God thing or not, because the truth of God exist regardless of any person's beliefs.

Perhaps this is what "PsyOps" is referring to, that he gives high regard to a person's "beliefs" and I surely do not.

Much like believing in the mystical "hell" will never be true or real regardless of how deep or sincere that belief might be, and seeing a "hell" as any form of "justice" means the person's mentality is barbaric.

 

[Marie]

What I actually say is that Atheist and science do show proofs of God whether they "believe" it or not.

My point was that the person's "belief" means very little as it does not matter if anyone believes in the God thing or not, because the truth of God exist regardless of any person's beliefs.

Perhaps this is what "PsyOps" is referring to, that he gives high regard to a person's "beliefs" and I surely do not.

Much like believing in the mystical "hell" will never be true or real regardless of how deep or sincere that belief might be, and seeing a "hell" as any form of "justice" means the person's mentality is barbaric.

If Hell was created to destroy Satan in.
Prove to me that it dosent exsist.
Where does the Bible state God came up with a plan B for him? It dosent!
God Hates, thats Biblical.
He's Jelous, thats Biblical.
So show me in the Bible Clearly, No JPC logic that the wicked will no longer be sent to Hell.

 

[VoteJP]

Mr Short-Bus.

If Hell was created to destroy Satan in.

There is no such place to destroy Satan, and the Bible does not declare that, and if it were correct then why was not Satan put there in the first place? or put there when Jesus cast him off? or why is Satan roaming around now if there are already people burning in the mystical hell? the answer = because there is no such place as the "hell" except as a common grave or hole in the ground.

Prove to me that it doesn't exist.

The proof is in the fact that such a place as the place of punishment called as "hell" simply can not exist.

It is an impossibility.

Such a thing can not exist because it is anti-Life, anti-God, anti-truth, anti-love, and such things can not be maintained.

Where does the Bible state God came up with a plan B for him? It doesn't!

The thing is that the Devil is part of the original plan "A" as God loves His enemies and everyone does get saved so even Satan the Devil will be saved.

The plan is to stop hurting people (or spirits) and to have no more pain, Isaiah 65:25.

God Hates, thats Biblical.
He's Jealous, thats Biblical.

Hate sins - not people.

A healthy and productive jealousy - but not an evil one.

So show me in the Bible Clearly, No JPC logic that the wicked will no longer be sent to Hell.

It is not a change or improvement as "no longer" sending sinners to the hell, because there never was such a place of "hell" where the loving Father God burned people - no, there never was such a place.

Even at the "Garden of Eden" where the whole mess-up first took root, then God made the plan of salvation with everyone being sinners and everyone being saved, Genesis 3.

 

[Marie]

There is no such place to destroy Satan, and the Bible does not declare that, and if it were correct then why was not Satan put there in the first place?
There were some bound and oth

or put there when Jesus cast him off? or why is Satan roaming around now if there are already people burning in the mystical hell? the answer = because there is no such place as the "hell" except as a common grave or hole in the ground.

For someone who claims to have read the bible many times you certainly missed a lot. Hell was prepared for Satan and the angels that rebelled to be cast into at the end, were not there yet. There currently are people in Hades and in torment put its not there final punishment. Just like those that are in Heaven are still awaiting the New Heaven here on earth.
Jesus story of the rich man and Lazarus was no parable. In all of Jesus parables he never used the name of an actual person like he did in that account. He wrote that just for people like yourself those that don't get it after being told many many times. By the way the red is Jesus words its Him speaking.

<DIR>Luk 16:19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
Luk 16:20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
Luk 16:21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house--
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers--so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
Luk 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lakeoffire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lakeoffire.

Thats pretty straight forward no free ride, everyone does not get saved in the end, or keeping records would be pointless.
And your arguments for Hell not existing I am still waiting on as that was a pitiful attempt to obscure the TRUTH of Gods word.
</DIR>

 

[Geruch]

Marie, You seem like a really nice person. Why do you continue to talk to a brick wall?
JP isn't going to believe anything you say. He only believe what he said as the truth.

He's a lot like my grandfather was. He doesn't care what other people say.

God Bless you for trying.

 

[hvp05]

What I actually say is that I'm an idiot.

No doubt.

Looks like you're going to be in for some nice weather. Do you have a hurricane party planned, even with no hurricane coming? Another chance to get some alcohol, invite some chicks over and show them your belly scars. Whatever you've got in mind, I'm sure it won't involve working on your campaign, as you have allowed that to totally deflate.

 

[PsyOps]

Then I do not know what you want.

I myself believe in Jesus and He was sent from God.

The Bible verses I gave do represent how I believe, and the dictionary gives my only definition of the word.

If you know of some extra meaning to the word there then surely it is up to your self to declare it.

In this case I say the word simply means to "believe" and nothing else.

You show a fundamental lack of understanding of a lot of things, so it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t know what I want. You’ve not taken the time to go beyond the English definition of things and realize that words in the bible are translated from ancient languages to English; and that in many instances there is no English word that can accurately define the word used from the Hebrew or Greek. So the closest approximate English word is used. So word studies are required to get the proper definition of certain words.

“Pisteuo” is the original Greek term (in the New Testament) used in many verses to mean believe, faith, commit, trust… The term is not just meant to acknowledge the existence of Jesus, who was sent by God, but also to completely surrender and commit yourself to Him.

Considering your lack of understanding of this basic concept I would say foodcritic was pretty accurate in stating you don’t really believe what you are saying since you don’t understand what the word means in the first place. If you commit yourself – completely surrender – to the God who is Yahweh, there can be no other Gods. From this standpoint Allah is false; all other Gods are false and to give them any credence as God is considered blasphemy. The only way you could not be committing blasphemy is if you do not truly “believe” in the God Yahweh in the first place. And your rhetoric tells me that you don’t.

There… I’ve declared it.

 

[thunderclapp]

No doubt.

Looks like you're going to be in for some nice weather. Do you have a hurricane party planned, even with no hurricane coming? Another chance to get some alcohol, invite some chicks over and show them your belly scars. Whatever you've got in mind, I'm sure it won't involve working on your campaign, as you have allowed that to totally deflate.

You're hilarious.

 

[VoteJP]

Mr Short-Bus.

Marie, You seem like a really nice person.

I see that as utterly ridiculous.

As any person like "Marie" that sees burning human being as her idea of God's justice is so extremely not nice that is can not be sustained as otherwise.

Her words demonstrate that she is a mean and hate filled person, and that is before knowing that she plans on her own joy in her heaven while the other folk are burning down below her righteous feet.

Here is what Jesus preached:

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. KJV, Matthew 12:34-38.

And Luke 6:45c = "for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."

This means our own words show what kind of a person we are deep inside as in one's heart, so a person like "Marie" that preaches God burning people (the hell) and calling it as "justice" and wanting her self in comfort while others burn means she is NOT a nice person, and her God is an evil monster.

 

[hvp05]

You're hilarious.

I bet I would be a hit at Jimmy's hurricane party, but I don't think he would invite me.

 

[hvp05]

a person like "Marie" that preaches God burning people (the hell) and calling it as "justice" and wanting her self in comfort while others burn means she is NOT a nice person, and her God is an evil monster.

What difference does it make? You said in Post 28 that beliefs do not matter - god is god, regardless of who or what we want him/her/it to be.

Besides, we're all saved in the end so EVERYBODY will be going to heaven! You'll have to put up with Marie, Geruch, thunder, myself and everyone else you can not stand! Aren't you looking forward to it, Jimmy?!

 

[retiredweaxman]

What difference does it make? You said in Post 28 that beliefs do not matter - god is god, regardless of who or what we want him/her/it to be.

Besides, we're all saved in the end so EVERYBODY will be going to heaven! You'll have to put up with Marie, Geruch, thunder, myself and everyone else you can not stand! Aren't you looking forward to it, Jimmy?!

Now that is hilarious!!!!! Can you imagine dozens of SOMDers taunting JPC for eternity? It would be like "Hell in Heaven" for JPC!!!!

 

[Geruch]

I see that as utterly ridiculous.

As any person like "Marie" that sees burning human being as her idea of God's justice is so extremely not nice that is can not be sustained as otherwise.

Her words demonstrate that she is a mean and hate filled person, and that is before knowing that she plans on her own joy in her heaven while the other folk are burning down below her righteous feet.

This means our own words show what kind of a person we are deep inside as in one's heart.

You can say what you will.

You want everyone to believe what you say is accurate, true, and correct.
That's not going to happen. I don't listen to a wolf in sheep clothing. So deal with it.

With all your words, I can see exactly what type of person you are.
Irresponsible, Extremist, Narcissist, Unexperience, Shameless, just to name a few.