Hijinx
Well-Known Member
You're right - we should charge Winchester with murders, and put the murderers in rehab.
Don't say I am right, I never said that. That's your idea.
Try responding without trying to interpret something you know nothing about.
Hey, I have an idea!
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
Don't say I am right, I never said that. That's your idea.
Try responding without trying to interpret something you know nothing about.
Some discussion of it here...
https://www.cochranfirmdc.com/maryland-bars-may-serve-dangerously-drunk-patrons-without-liability/
black dog
Free America
Thanks, my dad reminded me about the owners son of King Pontiac in Gaithersburg 30+ years ago got trashed at a local bar and his friends ( I think one was a emt ) dropped him off inside his front door of his home on the farm. He passed out just inside his door and asperated and died.
His father tried to sue a few over his sons death.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Unless they're shoving the keys into the hands of the drunk and ordering the drunk to drive, no, I do not see they have real responsibility. Can the argument be made? Sure! But, I can't hold them legally responsible, because they are not the ones committing the crime nor are they ordering the crime to be committed. I've never been to a bar that did not have a taxi on-call for taking drunks home. They're JOB is to sell as much alcohol as the person paying will buy. I can't fault them for doing their job, legally.
I also would not frequent a bar that had a bartender that let me drive home drunk, knowing I was my driver. But, it still is MY responsibility. I was sober enough to make the decision to drink another drink when I drank the drink that put me over the line to not being sober enough to make a good decision.
Well, now, that's completely different.
Here's what I think about that, as it relates to drugs. The seller is doing something illegal, and should be prosecuted when caught selling. That said, selling heroin to someone is very different from using heroin. Just like selling a gun is very different from using a gun. If a person is a convicted felon, disallowed from owning a weapon, then the seller of the gun who KNOWS the person is a convicted felon is also doing something illegal, and thus is responsible for the action of selling the gun. It is very different from selling a gun to using it in a crime. The person who uses it in a crime is responsible for the use in the crime - NOT the seller, the user. The seller is responsible for selling the gun illegally.
The drug seller is responsible for selling the drugs. I don't really care much about that crime, and think it should be drastically reduced in priority for drug enforcement personnel. I would rather see the drug seller telling law enforcement who uses it than the other way around. I would rather make the user so afraid of the consequences of use that the drug seller has no one to sell to.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Please explain how it is different to blame the seller of the gun more than the user like blaming the seller of the drugs instead of the user.
black dog
Free America
I'm not interested in arguing this topic right now, but I will say the VFW in the town I live in closed this past Thursday. It's nothing but a drunk fest bar.
No one would run to be post commander and one other office. Wanna guess why?
Indiana has dram shop laws, that's why..
They have 90 days to vote in these two positions or the post will close for good.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
Why. It is all your idea. You explain it to yourself.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
Sounds like they need new bartenders.
black dog
Free America
It's always been a constant flow of new bartenders at a few bars in town here. The hourly pay sucks for starters and drunks tend not to be good tippers on top of that.
So the bartenders start over pouring along with over serving so they hopefully will get better tips. It gets repeated over and over..
It's really bad at a few bars here, stumble in and crawl out. They can't walk so they have to drive. Riding mowers with no cutting decks, golf carts, mopeds with no exhaust pipes, bicycles and cars driven..
In an interesting contrast to that, perhaps, my bartenders (I had six or seven altogether, nearly all of them very experienced) were very careful to avoid "over serving" customers and regularly cut them off, sometimes resulting in howls of protest sometimes leading to the physical eviction of the customer. This in a state where the servers are not liable for over serving.
Restitution
New Member
You're right - we should charge Winchester with murders, and put the murderers in rehab.
I don't know....
Is bartending illegal?
Is it illegal to manufacture Glocks?
Is it illegal to manufacture Winchesters?
I'm pretty sure it is illegal to manufacture and distribute ILLEGAL drugs :shrug:
black dog
Free America
Bars seem to just be different from what I'm used to back in Maryland, We went to bars to not just have a few drinks but to socialize and have fun. If it was a drinking contest we would have a designated driver..
I hit the Eagles i belong to a few night a week but generally not long after I eat I'm out there before 11pm with most of the big crowd. And the nightly drunk fest continues until 2 am.
If the drunks do get cut off they just head to one of the other 4 bars in town.
And it's a small town and everyone is well aware who's on who's naughty list.
They don't get cut off very often, you will get 30 days off at the Eagles for foul language long before you get time off for falling off your stool and being a belligerent drunk.
I hit the Eagles i belong to a few night a week but generally not long after I eat I'm out there before 11pm with most of the big crowd. And the nightly drunk fest continues until 2 am.
If the drunks do get cut off they just head to one of the other 4 bars in town.
And it's a small town and everyone is well aware who's on who's naughty list.
They don't get cut off very often, you will get 30 days off at the Eagles for foul language long before you get time off for falling off your stool and being a belligerent drunk.
black dog
Free America
That stems from responsible ownership, it's not hard to run a reasonably clean bar / restaurant. The bar owners here are just the three monkeys about how much better there business would be if the 14 local drunks that fill up all the bar stool 24-7 would be without the daily drunks.
We have a nice sports bar in town and it has great food, Everyone just gets carry out, The drunks keep folks from staying... Imagine a sports bar with plenty of big screens that is less than half full for the Superbowl..
It's crazy...
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
I have a better idea, lets spend a trillion dollars of taxpayer money, lock up a #### ton of people for non-violent crimes, watch as usage rates and potency of drugs continue to remain constant, and use the "war on drugs" to violate the rights of millions of people. It's totally working so far!
yeah.....that IS crazy.
This_person
Well-Known Member
I see zero difference
This_person
Well-Known Member
Concur, that's why I expounded in a later post
This_person
Well-Known Member
So if the crime rate doesn't change, we should just ignore the law?
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
Not what I'm saying.
What is the goal of the current method and current "war on drugs"?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
The only thing I have to add.. Is Ridge volunteers had their meeting last week, and during the meeting they released the number of calls they went out on last year (I have to admit, I don't know if this is the FD or the Rescue Squad) but they went out on 7400 calls last year.
We had volunteer ambulance and FD in PA as well, but every time they got called out they billed the caller's insurance. I don't understand why we don't do the same. It's a legal bill, insurance covers the costs (in PA over 13 years ago it was $500 a call) and with Obamacare the poorest of us SHOULD have coverage, why aren't our volunteer services providing a service for free, that's covered by insurance??
How much difference would 3.7Million make to their fundraising goals?? New Equipment? New Carnival rides (#1 Priority!!)? Property improvement??
I honestly don't see WHY we don't bill an insurance company EVERYtime they get a call out for fire or rescue.
We had volunteer ambulance and FD in PA as well, but every time they got called out they billed the caller's insurance. I don't understand why we don't do the same. It's a legal bill, insurance covers the costs (in PA over 13 years ago it was $500 a call) and with Obamacare the poorest of us SHOULD have coverage, why aren't our volunteer services providing a service for free, that's covered by insurance??
How much difference would 3.7Million make to their fundraising goals?? New Equipment? New Carnival rides (#1 Priority!!)? Property improvement??
I honestly don't see WHY we don't bill an insurance company EVERYtime they get a call out for fire or rescue.