Is America the laughingstock of the world?

[PsyOps]

I don't think you understand the word "Editorial" Polls are facts and data.

I think you don't know the definition of "facts". The ONLY "facts" a poll provides is that people answered a certain way to a question. It is not a FACT that the poll represents how things will actually play out, or provides a picture of the larger population it's trying to represent. Polls try to make an accurate prediction, but cannot account for everyone's sentiments; not even close. And the 2016 election proved that. Polls are fatally flawed because they only canvas a very small percentage of the population that it's trying to answer for.

 

[vraiblonde]

Polls try to make an accurate prediction

OR they try to support the pollster's predetermined outcome. How polls are worded is important; where and who you poll is important as well. Then there are those who refuse to answer or give the answer they think the pollster wants to hear - "Hello, President Trump!"

You would think that in light of the 2016 "surprise" election, people would stop citing polls as proof of something. "America is a laughingstock! 100% of New York Times and CNN reporters polled agree!"

 

[PsyOps]

OR they try to support the pollster's predetermined outcome. How polls are worded is important; where and who you poll is important as well. Then there are those who refuse to answer or give the answer they think the pollster wants to hear - "Hello, President Trump!"

You would think that in light of the 2016 "surprise" election, people would stop citing polls as proof of something. "America is a laughingstock! 100% of New York Times and CNN reporters polled agree!"

I am speculative of just about everything coming out of our media, whether it's news networks or pollsters. It seems none of the people that are aimed to inform us have a desire to just provide us the information; they have to insert their personal agenda into it and skew the truth. If anything, that's the laughingstock.

 

[vraiblonde]

I am speculative of just about everything coming out of our media, whether it's news networks or pollsters. It seems none of the people that are aimed to inform us have a desire to just provide us the information; they have to insert their personal agenda into it and skew the truth. If anything, that's the laughingstock.

Yep. Our biased editorializing lying fake immature press is a disgrace.

 

[Sapidus]

I think you don't know the definition of "facts". The ONLY "facts" a poll provides is that people answered a certain way to a question. It is not a FACT that the poll represents how things will actually play out, or provides a picture of the larger population it's trying to represent. Polls try to make an accurate prediction, but cannot account for everyone's sentiments; not even close. And the 2016 election proved that. Polls are fatally flawed because they only canvas a very small percentage of the population that it's trying to answer for.

The ONLY "facts" a poll provides is that people answered a certain way to a question. Exactly my point. As i said. Look at the numbers and the data and ignore all the words and editorializing around it.

 

[PsyOps]

The ONLY "facts" a poll provides is that people answered a certain way to a question. Exactly my point. As i said. Look at the numbers and the data and ignore all the words and editorializing around it.

Yeah, that was exactly your point.

 

[Bird Dog]

Yeah, that was exactly your point.

I got it too.. so, poignant

 

[Sapidus]

Yeah, that was exactly your point.

Then why is it the exact thing i wrote 3 pages ago?

 

[PsyOps]

Then why is it the exact thing i wrote 3 pages ago?

Your claim is that these polls are FACTS that the entire world's view on the image of the US has declined, and I'm saying that the only FACT this points out is the people that were asked this question view it this way. That's how all polls work, but we love to use them to support our thinking that this is how all people think. If you didn't learn this from the last election, I can't help you.

 

[Toxick]

Sappy et al keep insisting it is, but I'm not seeing any signs of it.

I engage in several international forums.

If those forums are any guide, the Approval/Disapproval of the United State (in general, as a nation and culture) is 50/50 or close to it. Obviously the detractors are more loudmouth and vocal about it, and their derision is not limited to (or even centered around) Trump. It's our violent nature, guns, individualism and our proclivity to act as the worlds Police.

Not a laughing stock, but not exceptionally popular - although, not exceptionally unpopular either.


When getting more specific to Trump, I find that he is also not a laughing stock.

In fact, he has much of the world ####ing terrified. His bombastic rhetoric when it comes to The Democratic People's Republic of Korea have many people around the world positively convinced that we're on the brink of World War 3.



Most of what I hear about Trump is neither positive or negative. Much of the world is confused as hell (as am I) as to how in the actual #### a Democratic Republic such as ours, we ended up with two emotionally unstable sociopathic and/or narcissistic candidates who are almost universally hated with overwhelming vitriol and zeal.


So, no, we are not a laughing-stock per se. But we got almost the entire world scratching their heads and puckering their a-holes.

 

[SamSpade]

I engage in several international forums.

Me too. Well, not several but a few. When I step out of just Western Europe sphere, what I find is that the opinion of American barely changes with party or administration.
MOST of the time, their opinions have nothing to do with party - dumb things like Americans don't give a crap about the rest of the world, they don't really follow football (soccer) - and so on.
SOMETIMES they make observations about our leaders, but they're caricatures of the real thing, because they just read their own paper and their own TV news, and it ain't all America all the time.
In some parts of the world, the opinion of America is MUCH more shaped by what they see on TV and movies and the products we sell than anything else.

 

[Toxick]

MOST of the time, their opinions have nothing to do with party - dumb things like Americans don't give a crap about the rest of the world, they don't really follow football (soccer) - and so on.

I remember one time someone posted something about 'Football' with an attached photograph. Being true to my own character, I said something like, "You misspelled 'soccer'. Football uses an oblong brown ball"

The ####storm that ensued was incomprehensible to the mind.




The metric system is also a big one.
They refer to the "The metric system" as "non-retard units" and view the imperial system with unreasonably profound disdain and contempt.



How far is it from X to Y? (in non-retard units please).
How hot is it there? (in non-retard units please).


And they call Americans arrogant.

So, naturally, I answer in imperial units, explaining that those are non-retard units.

 

[SamSpade]

Polls are facts and data.

That's one of the most ridiculous things you have ever posted.
Polls in the context we are using are *opinion* polls - at the very BEST they are still a subjective gauge of opinion.
They may BE data, but so is a random list of numbers - it's how it's put together that has any relevance.
And THAT is HIGHLY subjective. Doesn't mean it's always wrong, but it's an educated guess.

Now while my bailiwick is statistics, I don't do opinion polls - they are about the single most subjective thing I could measure.
Even with the forms my agency collects, we still have experts who craft the form's content, because we can't have valuable data screwed up because the question was ambiguous, confusing or touched upon a subject the responder didn't want to answer. If the response rate is too low, we can't really publish.

It is difficult enough for an opinion pollster to craft a decent sample - or to find a means to accurately collect it, since the world changes and relying on things like land lines no longer yield the results you want, and cell phones don't always get the kind of person you want to represent. You also have to decide if you want a snapshot of the population as it is - and how will you determine what it is.

If polls were facts - they would all yield very close to the same results - and those results would be borne out by events, such as elections.
They are not. They're a measurement of what the pollster thinks the sample thinks. And the sample itself and the means used to get the data can be flawed.
While my opinion of Nate Silver has definitely been weakened by his most recent efforts - he HAS observed that averages of different polls tend to be more accurate.
Call it the wisdom of the crowd - an average works better when the different polls are different, because it means they're not parroting each other.

I *have* participated in 'push' polls, although I had to wade deep into it before I realized what was being done.
I'd be asked an innocent question - THEN I'd be "enlightened" with some commentary and ask if I STILL thought the same thing.
It wasn't long before I could tell which way the pollster wanted the answers to go - so after fifteen to twenty minutes, I said, sorry.
Don't bother with any more of my answers, because you're not interested in them.

Having been a participant - and having read what they CLAIMED were the questions (without the challenges they posed) - I realized that some pollsters
want to shape the opinion rather than collect it. And that is dishonest.

 

[SamSpade]

So, naturally, I answer in imperial units, explaining that those are non-retard units.

Forgot about that one. Admittedly, we're just about the only place in the world that still uses all of them.

On the other hand - some of imperial units have a practical use.
How tall is a horse? (We measure in hands - guess what? - most people have *about* the same size hand - you ALWAYS have a measure).
How many paces? Feet? Yards? You can guess most of these with a step, a human foot, the extent of your arm.
Measuring how deep the ocean? A fathom is a stretch of rope from the end of one arm to the other.
The imperial system is very practical when you don't need precision.

How big is an inch? About the length of the top of your thumb.
How big is a centimeter - ughh. Lemme check.

Now while I admit Celsius is more logical than Fahrenheit - it's more - compact.
One degree Celsius change compares to almost two Fahrenheit, so small differences are more easily noticed.

 

[SamSpade]

view the imperial system with unreasonably profound disdain and contempt.

I once got to see the actual play Lincoln was watching when he was assassinated - well obviously not with the same actors, but -

"Our American Cousin". Some of the humor doesn't go well with today but it demonstrates something that was as true THEN as it is now -
The play - while involved - plays against the fact that the American is boorish and vulgar compared to snobby Europeans who look at him as an ignorant bumpkin.
Think "King Ralph". This hasn't changed. Even Europeans I like still have this sentiment that while Americans might be even NICE - they're still uncultured nitwits.
This sentiment helped us win the Revolution. As a point of history - as much as Americans were terrified of Hessians, when they faced them alone on the battlefield -
without English leadership - Americans always won. Thinking your opponent is an idiot is ALWAYS a tool that he can use against you.

 

[glhs837]

The Brits are particularly curious about our gun culture. Almost without fail, British folks I meet on my travels want to know how many guns I own. I think their impression is that we all run around with guns, pointing them in the air, drinking beer, and pew-pew-pewing our guns.

.

I routinely work with a fine RAAF officer. Great guy, like most of the Aussies I've ever had the pleasure of working with. He and I and his American working partner were chatting one day and the subject of guns came up. Quite reasonably, I might add, he simply stated that he, and most of his countrymen that he knew, just didn't get our notion of the "freedom" to own guns, the right that shall not be questioned. He's lived here for three years or so, working hand in hand with a bunch of mostly military retireees so he's not viewing this from afar. He was truly puzzled as the sheer pervasiveness of attitude that we were entitled by God to own guns. Chris and I told him that it most likely was a thing he never could understand, it's just a basic tenet, built into the core of how we came to be a free nation and not a colony. We used guns to gain and keep our independence. And so they hold a special place for us. But he thinks like someone form a colony granted independence is I suppose the difference.

 

[Monello]

Me too. Well, not several but a few. When I step out of just Western Europe sphere, what I find is that the opinion of American barely changes with party or administration.
MOST of the time, their opinions have nothing to do with party - dumb things like Americans don't give a crap about the rest of the world, they don't really follow football (soccer) - and so on.
SOMETIMES they make observations about our leaders, but they're caricatures of the real thing, because they just read their own paper and their own TV news, and it ain't all America all the time.
In some parts of the world, the opinion of America is MUCH more shaped by what they see on TV and movies and the products we sell than anything else.

I was stationed in Europe in the mid 80s. Reagan was president the entire time. I saw an article per day in the local paper about something US or Reagan related. Top half of the front page.

And we were bombing Lebanon, Libya, Grenada or flexing our strength in some other place around the globe. The impression I got was 1 of respect bordering on fear.

A lot of the local nationals were proud to display their American friend to their other compatriots. I got asked a lot of questions about all things American. My favorite was the question if it was true that in America you could buy cooked pasta in a can. Many thought that an American birthright was like some sort of cloak that gave you mystical powers. I'd try to explain that I still have to work hard to overcome obstacles and hardships. Pretty much the same reaction I get today when I hear some nonsense about white privilege or male privilege.

 

[littlelady]

I was stationed in Europe in the mid 80s. Reagan was president the entire time. I saw an article per day in the local paper about something US or Reagan related. Top half of the front page.

And we were bombing Lebanon, Libya, Grenada or flexing our strength in some other place around the globe. The impression I got was 1 of respect bordering on fear.

A lot of the local nationals were proud to display their American friend to their other compatriots. I got asked a lot of questions about all things American. My favorite was the question if it was true that in America you could buy cooked pasta in a can. Many thought that an American birthright was like some sort of cloak that gave you mystical powers. I'd try to explain that I still have to work hard to overcome obstacles and hardships. Pretty much the same reaction I get today when I hear some nonsense about white privilege or male privilege.

:like:

 

[vraiblonde]

In fact, he has much of the world ####ing terrified. His bombastic rhetoric when it comes to The Democratic People's Republic of Korea have many people around the world positively convinced that we're on the brink of World War 3.

And yet KJU's bombastic rhetoric - not to mention launching of missiles - doesn't terrify them? I find that curious.

 

[glhs837]

And yet KJU's bombastic rhetoric - not to mention launching of missiles - doesn't terrify them? I find that curious.

what terrified me was the previous administrations constant rolling over like a whipped dog.......