Letter: Who's Hurting The Students

[Radiant1]

You completely missed the point Bernie was making. It is NOT just "his problem". If the taxpayers overall (the source of 100% of the funds that pay teachers) are making less money, tax revenues are lower and there is a deficit. Or..similarly, if the taxpayers are making the same but the school system needs more and more money...there is a deficit.

Ok. So be mad at the school board or whomever negotiated with the teachers union or whomever fudged the budget, not the teachers (or the union for that matter). They're just doing what anyone else would do in the same situation. It's not like anybody takes a willing cut in pay on behalf of other taxpayers. I mean, come on, get real.

Regardless, it's still currently a matter of what was in their CBA, signed and sealed but...not delivered. And that's really what all of this comes down to for me. Deliver what was promised contractually. Re-work the contract better next time, but until then it is what it is and what's owed is owed. In the meantime, the teachers have every right to not go above and beyond what they are contractually obligated to do. It's a simple matter for me. :shrug:

 

[Gilligan]

It's not like anybody takes a willing cut in pay on behalf of other taxpayers. I mean, come on, get real.

:

Get off of it. My sister, the high school teacher in Virginia, joined with all of her colleagues and decided to all take a pay cut so that none of them had to be laid off. Those were the choices they faced..and the decision they mutually made.

That pay cut was three..maybe four now..years ago and has yet to be restored. Was she happy about it?..is anyone ever going to be happy about a pay cut?? Of course not. But life is not always roses.

All that aside, I do agree that a firm legal commitment regarding pay should be honored, regardless of what kind of employer we're talking about.

 

[Radiant1]

Get off of it. My sister, the high school teacher in Virginia, joined with all of her colleagues and decided to all take a pay cut so that none of them had to be laid off. Those were the choices they faced..and the decision they mutually made.

That pay cut was three..maybe four now..years ago and has yet to be restored. Was she happy about it?..is anyone ever going to be happy about a pay cut?? Of course not. But life is not always roses.

All that aside, I do agree that a firm legal commitment regarding pay should be honored, regardless of what kind of employer we're talking about.

The teachers here aren't being threatened with a lay off, and somehow I doubt honoring their contract will create such a tax deficit as to warrant one.

 

[Gilligan]

The teachers here aren't being threatened with a lay off, and somehow I doubt honoring their contract will create such a tax deficit as to warrant one.

So, it sounds like things are much better here than the system my sister works in. That's a good thing, right? Perspective. Speaking of perspective, I can't recall any point in the 25 years I've had kids in SMCPS (gawd, it really has been that many..;-p) that the annual "theme" from the BoE and/or teachers wasn't the same: "We MUST have more money".

Go figure.

 

[intertidal]

Get off of it. My sister, the high school teacher in Virginia, joined with all of her colleagues and decided to all take a pay cut so that none of them had to be laid off. Those were the choices they faced..and the decision they mutually made.

That pay cut was three..maybe four now..years ago and has yet to be restored. Was she happy about it?..is anyone ever going to be happy about a pay cut?? Of course not. But life is not always roses.

All that aside, I do agree that a firm legal commitment regarding pay should be honored, regardless of what kind of employer we're talking about.

Taking a pay cut to avoid layoffs is more common than many think and speaks to the degree of honor among the employees when they agree to self-sacrifice to benefit all. But it is also a risky proposal. Maryland state workers did the same thing as your sister's colleagues in 2008-09. But they did not bargain with honorable people. They bargained with the O'Malley-Brown administration and so got both pay cuts for three years AND the layoffs they'd hoped to avoid.

 

[intertidal]

In a previous thread on this same subject, all the people who supported the teachers going "back to basic" stated that they did not receive their step increase, but according to the above they did receive it but just not as much as they wanted.

You might be confusing the step (aka "increments") increase in the published county pay scale with a cola. The cola is negotiated while the pay scale is fixed. Teachers received neither for FY2015 - which began 7-1-14. Due to sharply higher health insurance costs, 100% of which was passed on to the teachers, they received significantly smaller paychecks. Regular county employees received their increases.

If an employer does not honor its pay scale, why bother to have one?

 

[intertidal]

you bet your bippy. They are also taxpayers, if taxpayers get cuts, they can't afford to pay higher tax rates. To generate more revenue from the income tax, the state would have to allow the county to increase the rate. Increasing the real estate tax puts a direct burden on the same taxpayers that have taken cuts.

Is it your conclusion that the 20th highest income county in the US cannot afford to pay its teachers in accordance to its own pay scale?

 

[acommondisaster]

Is it your conclusion that the 20th highest income county in the US cannot afford to pay its teachers in accordance to its own pay scale?

If we pay the teachers more, how will we ever clean up the bay and build more windmills?

 

[Radiant1]

So, it sounds like things are much better here than the system my sister works in. That's a good thing, right? Perspective. Speaking of perspective, I can't recall any point in the 25 years I've had kids in SMCPS (gawd, it really has been that many..;-p) that the annual "theme" from the BoE and/or teachers wasn't the same: "We MUST have more money".

Go figure.

We live in a capitalist society, EVERYONE must have more money! And...damn, you're old!



Oh wait...I've had kids in SMCPS for 23 years, 27 when all is said and done. Damn, I'm old too!

 

[glitch]

Plenty of professionals with a bachelor's degree are paid less than teachers. My sister and mom are/were both nurses. They don't have bachelor's degrees, but their education cost the same and they were on a very rigorous school schedule. You also don't get the same benefits as a nurse.

I'm not saying whether I think teachers should make more or not, but I question the motivation of comparing it to nursing. At least compare the entire package

Honestly, I don't have the time or inclination to sit down and compare tit for tat. What your talking about would be so job/placement specific that it would lose the ability to generalize. You'd have to get into private vs. public hospital placements, benefits, pension, health care costs, etc.

However, in response to some of the other posts regarding the information I posted - which profession would you like me to compare it to? Nursing seemed to be pretty reasonable to me. Yes, they work more hours. Yes, they work odd hours. But according to what I read that got them a significant increase in salary over similarly educated peers in other professions. I honestly don't think that teaching is such a unique position that it can't be meaningful compared to another profession for the sake of discussing compensation.

 

[Gilligan]

. But they did not bargain with honorable people. They bargained with the O'Malley-Brown administration and so got both pay cuts for three years AND the layoffs they'd hoped to avoid.

Sure can't argue with any of that.

 

[TerriT]

http://www.smcps.org/hr

Well lets see they work a 180 days a year, 7 hours a day and make $44678.00 that comes to $35.46 an hour. But I forgot they also get 13 paid days off too during that time.

 

[Gilligan]

And...damn, you're old!

I'm reminded of that every in the morning...but at least I can still get up in the morning.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

So where did all of the lottery and gambling money go?

 

[Gilligan]

So where did all of the lottery and gambling money go?

Most of it went for hookers and blow, but the rest was wasted.

 

[Radiant1]

Well lets see they work a 180 days a year, 7 hours a day and make $44678.00 that comes to $35.46 an hour. But I forgot they also get 13 paid days off too during that time.

It's 7-1/2 hrs a day for 190 days. That works out to $31.35/hr, which is a $5,800+ difference annually than what you are proposing. Most would consider that a substantial difference. In addition, they have to make that money last through the summer months so their hourly wage, realitistically, turns out to be a bit lower. If they were working the typical 40-hr/week job they'd only be making $21.48/hr. As for their paid days off, yeah, I'm kind of jealous too, but I don't resent or begrudge them for it.

 

[awpitt]

Posting the following letter as a courtesy to the undersigned:

Public School Union Officials are saying that "teachers are going back to basics because they are not getting step increases in pay". Union Officials were quoted in local papers as saying "teachers with the St. Mary's County School System will only do what is required of them this school year and nothing more, and that includes not assigning homework to students because it would increase the amount of free time that teachers would have to use to grade assignments". The Union Officials go on to say " we have no intention of hurting the students or diminishing the quality and instruction we provide". This is a contradiction !

I contend that not assigning homework does hurt the students and the quality of education. Do all teachers feel this way about assigning homework, or is this the Unions talking? Either way, it sounds petty. One teacher speaking to a local paper on condition of anonymity put the onus on the Unions and the School Board for not doing an adequate job, and said that teachers did get step a increase but were short changed just a few dollars per pay check due to a change in the payment formula. That is not the County Commissioners fault!

Everyone should stop pointing fingers at the County Commissioners who have continued to adequately fund the School System with annual increases in funding. They should instead turn their ire toward the Unions, and also toward the School Board for mismanagement resulting in a $6.5 million cost overrun. Without this mismanagement, teachers could have a bigger pay check. And the question remains, are Unions a help or hindrance to Public Education?

Joe Wible Sr.
Leonardtown

Mr. Wible misrepresented what the union said. The teachers are not refusing to assign homework. What is actually happening is that teachers are not assigning homework to the level that requires them to spend time grading homework outside of the required working hours. In fact, my son has had homework on two of the five school days so far. I don't mind folks being critical of unions, but they should at least get the facts straight.

 

[awpitt]

Doesn't a new SMCPS teacher make over $35 an hour for the time they are actually working. Not bad for starting off if you ask me.

How did you come up with that figure?

 

[TerriT]

It's 7-1/2 hrs a day for 190 days. That works out to $31.35/hr, which is a $5,800+ difference annually than what you are proposing. Most would consider that a substantial difference. In addition, they have to make that money last through the summer months so their hourly wage, realitistically, turns out to be a bit lower. If they were working the typical 40-hr/week job they'd only be making $21.48/hr. As for their paid days off, yeah, I'm kind of jealous too, but I don't resent or begrudge them for it.

I said what they get paid when they actually work. So it would be 177 days with them taking their leave. So your right it is $33.63 an hour. Like I said not a bad pay for the work you actually do.

 

[awpitt]

I said what they get paid when they actually work. So it would be 177 days with them taking their leave. So your right it is $33.63 an hour. Like I said not a bad pay for the work you actually do.

Leave is an earned benefit just like everywhere else so you can't really count that against them. Plus, I don't know a teacher who actually works just 7 1/2 hours per day. In the non-teaching world, people spend time on smoke breaks, hang'n around the "water cooler", etc. Teachers don't have those options. With the execption of their planning period, they have to be on duty in their classroom supervising students.