Luke 16:19-31 Ice Water in Hell

[hotcoffee]

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Luke 16:19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


Jesus knew His mission would be unconvincing to most. He did it anyway for you and for me.

 

[Dondi]

Do you know why the rich man ended in hell?

 

[hotcoffee]

Do you know why the rich man ended in hell?

The rich man enjoyed his wealth without any reguard to those around him who were in need. He saw Lazarus at the gate in that miserable horrible condition and just walked on by.

He cared only for himself and only for his entitled.... not the poor and needy....

My guess is he figured that Lazarus must of done something pathetic to be so low down that the dogs licked his wounds at the gate.... just like a lot of people figure those in need must have done something to deserve to be homeless or sick.

Is that what you thought Dondi?

 

[b23hqb]

Do you know why the rich man ended in hell?

There is only one way to end in hell, and that is unbelief. Everyone - EVERYONE - can be saved if they believe in their heart the law/God (OT) or the Lord Jesus Christ (NT), and confess with their mouth that God has raised Him from the dead; for with the heart man believes into righteousness, and with the mouth man confesses unto salvation (Rom 10:9-10, paraphrased by me).

Doesn't matter whatever one has done, they can be saved from a lost eternity and gain eternal salvation, but only by following that saving formula. Nothing else will suffice.

BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

 

[countrygirl12]

Wasn't it forbidden for those who were "unclean" to enter the temple? (lepers, blind, palsy, disabled, deaf, etc.) Leviticus 13 outlines how unclean are treated. So it was for beggars like Lazarus who was a full of "sores" (KJV bible). He was most likely physically weak from malnutrition, and he was poor in spirit which made him of a different class than that of the rich man. Lazarus was a good man, a faithful man, lowly, humble and a believer in God.

Verses 29-31 point out that unless we become meek and humble and willing to listen to the servants of God, how can we think that we would believe an angel? It is repeated in scripture that we must become as a child if we are to enter the kingdom of God.

Lazarus wasnt treated differently [received in heaven] because he was poor in riches, but because he was poor in spirit. There is nothing evil about having wealth it is what we do with that wealth/worship/not give freely to others, that we are judged.

 

[hotcoffee]

Wasn't it forbidden for those who were "unclean" to enter the temple? (lepers, blind, palsy, disabled, deaf, etc.) Leviticus 13 outlines how unclean are treated. So it was for beggars like Lazarus who was a full of "sores" (KJV bible). He was most likely physically weak from malnutrition, and he was poor in spirit which made him of a different class than that of the rich man. Lazarus was a good man, a faithful man, lowly, humble and a believer in God.

Verses 29-31 point out that unless we become meek and humble and willing to listen to the servants of God, how can we think that we would believe an angel? It is repeated in scripture that we must become as a child if we are to enter the kingdom of God.

Lazarus wasnt treated differently [received in heaven] because he was poor in riches, but because he was poor in spirit. There is nothing evil about having wealth it is what we do with that wealth/worship/not give freely to others, that we are judged.

Yep... that's it....

AND.... The rich man abided by the law... He wasn't required to be good to the man loaded with sores at the gate... as a matter of fact... if he had, he would have been unclean himself...

The sin was, according to the commentaries I read, looking out for himself only.

 

[Dondi]

The rich man enjoyed his wealth without any reguard to those around him who were in need. He saw Lazarus at the gate in that miserable horrible condition and just walked on by.

He cared only for himself and only for his entitled.... not the poor and needy....

My guess is he figured that Lazarus must of done something pathetic to be so low down that the dogs licked his wounds at the gate.... just like a lot of people figure those in need must have done something to deserve to be homeless or sick.

Is that what you thought Dondi?

You are generally correct. Jesus had just finished speaking to his disciples about unrighteous mammon saying, "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Luke 16:13)

What is interesting is that the Pharisees were listening in on Jesus' lecture. More pointedly is that the Pharisees were described as covetous.

So when Jesus relates the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, he is speaking primarily to the Pharisees at this point.

We don't know much about the background of this Rich Man, not even his name. But we, of course, can speculate that he was a prominent Jew in the community and probably wouldn't be to wrong to imagine that he was well educated, having gone to the best schools of that day, even a thorough knowledge the Law of Moses. And having such knowedge of the Law, at some point in his studies, he must have come across Deuteronomy 15:7-8:

"If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.:"

So inspite of his knowledge of the Law, knowing full well of what was required of him, tbe Rich Man callously disregarded Lazarus, who laid at his gate, hungry and sick. He did not provide him what he needed. Furthermore, he failed to acknowledge that whatsoever riches he possessd were given to him by God. He totally misused his riches on his own selfish gain.

That is why this rich man ended up in state he was in. He deserved to be tormented in hell to the degree that Lazarus was tormented on earth.

Conversely, Lazarus was was comforted in Abraham's Bosum. Why? Because God's promises are true:

"Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?" (James 2:5)
God loves the poor.

And I think Jesus related this story for the Pharisees, who were trying to justify themselves, using their religious status as a measure of their ego, as Jesus pointed out in Luke 16:15:

"And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

 

[Bird Dog]

There is only one way to end in hell, and that is unbelief. Everyone - EVERYONE - can be saved if they believe in their heart the law/God (OT) or the Lord Jesus Christ (NT), and confess with their mouth that God has raised Him from the dead; for with the heart man believes into righteousness, and with the mouth man confesses unto salvation (Rom 10:9-10, paraphrased by me).

Doesn't matter whatever one has done, they can be saved from a lost eternity and gain eternal salvation, but only by following that saving formula. Nothing else will suffice.

BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

but, this verse is where you Evangelicals get it wrong. If you believe and don't do
as Jesus instructed in reference to the poor etc. It doesn't mean a thing, you can believe all you want, it won't just work by itself.
Please do not quote Paul to contradict me, I am pointing out Jesus's words and he trumps Paul.

ps....I like your instruction manual reference

 

[Dondi]

In further expanding this topic concerning care for the poor, I'd like to point out a couple more examples, both found in just a few chapters later in Luke, both with opposite outcomes.

The first is in Luke 18:18-25:

"And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

It is interesting to note that when quoting from the Ten Commandments, Jesus omits the first four commandments, which pertains our relationship with God. Instead He lists the ones pertaining to our relationship to other...All except one: "Thou shall not covet"

The rich young ruler makes the same mistake as the Rich Man in Luke 16. He has coveted his riches, hoarding so tightly that he is unwilling to give to the poor, nor recognize the must more precious reward for following Jesus' instructions in gaining tresures in heaven. The question, "what must I do to inherit eternal life" has been answered. He won't if he maintains that attitude.

Second, we come to Luke 19:1-9:

"And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich. And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature. And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way. And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house. And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully. And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner. And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham."

I'm quite sure that by the time Jesus comes around to Jericho, His reputation has preceded Him. And it wouldn't be far fetched to suppose that Zacchaeus certainly had heard of Jesus. I'm word about Him spread quickly in and around Palestine. And I don't think we would be to far to imagine that Zachaeus would have caught wind of some of Jesus' works and sayings, by the time He entered the city. Perhaps he heard of some parables, like the Rich Man and Lazarus, or maybe of the incident with the rich young ruler. At any rate, Zacchaeus was very interesting to see Jesus, to the point of climbing up that sycamore tree to get a good glance at Jesus as He passed by.

Surely by the time Jesus invites Himself to come and dine with him, Zacchaeus' heart has changed, for he proclaims before Jesus and anyone else at the dinner party of his resolve to get things right with restoring those he had wronged, and to graciously give to the poor. Now one might say that he didn't give all to the poor, as Jesus instructed the young rich ruler just a couple chapter's back, but only half. But what if the other half was spent restoring four-fold the ones he had cheated?

And it is right after this proclamation that Jesus announces to the public that "salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham."

So the question I have for your is, How did Zacchaeus get saved?

 

[hotcoffee]

I love where this is going.

When you see a mother and her kids in the convenience store.... and she's digging through her purse trying to find some change.... do you say... "I got it!"

Sometimes we all need to be nice to one another.

Then there's the rich guy who is on the run to get his coffee and get out of there. He's standing behind this woman who's holding up the line. He sends out a quick text to however he's in contact with at the minute.... WTH.... He's rubbing his belly to relieve what is going to be an ulcer.

Sometimes we have to understand and just be nice to him too.



Welcome back Dondi.... where ya been?

 

[Dondi]

hotcoffee, I haven't been anywhere. I peek here from time to time, at least a couple times a week. I just don't participate as often.

One of the reasons I responded to this particular passage is that my pastor had made a comment one sermon that the rich man wasn't that bad a guy. I meant maybe he did toss a few crumbs from his table to Lazarus, as the passage says. Why would Lazarus hang out at his gate all the time if he wasn't getting fed. (Actually, the passage doesn't say that the rich man gave him anything, just that Lazarus desires crumbs from the rich man's table. It's possible that he ate from the garbage waste, but the rich man certainly didn't proactively help the poor beggar).

I think what the pastor was doing was to bring the rich man on a level playing field to the extent that he becomes us. The reason is that this is one of the most talked about and detailed passages on the doctrine of hell that there seems to be a need to bring a universal sense of one's fate apart from Christ.

In evangelistic circles, the implication of the fates of these two figures is that the Rich Man rejected Christ, and Lazarus accepted Christ. They have to imply this because that is the doctrine we've all been taught. But I think using this story like that misses the point. In the first place, the passage never tell us that Lazarus accepted Christ, it only tells us that he was comforted in Abraham's bosum, with the strong implication that it was because of how he was badly treated in this life as a poor beggar.