Most recent electric bill (SMECO)

[NorthBeachPerso]

How long will that oil last? If you're heating with that you should drop it to 60 at night, that will really cut your usage down. Don't drop it with a heat pump as heat.

Living on the water will impact your bill, the wind will steal heat from your house. That's something people don't realize when they buy that place on the Bay.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

How long will that oil last? If you're heating with that you should drop it to 60 at night, that will really cut your usage down. Don't drop it with a heat pump as heat.

Living on the water will impact your bill, the wind will steal heat from your house. That's something people don't realize when they buy that place on the Bay.

I've always wondered about that.

Hypothetically, lets say I set my t-stat to 60* during the day and night, and, say, 68 during the times I am home.

Would it use more oil, over the day, to keep it at 68, or....

Would it use more oil to let it drop 8 degrees, and then have the furnace kick on for a longer period when I am home?

 

[GWguy]

I've always wondered about that.

Hypothetically, lets say I set my t-stat to 60* during the day and night, and, say, 68 during the times I am home.

Would it use more oil, over the day, to keep it at 68, or....

Would it use more oil to let it drop 8 degrees, and then have the furnace kick on for a longer period when I am home?

If you have a small house, kicking the heat down at night is fine. If you have a large house, I've always thought it better to keep the heat up, maybe only drop it a few degrees. When the whole house drops in temp and you turn up the thermostat to warm it back up again, you have to heat not only the air, but everything in each room. The walls, the floors, the furniture, the metal kitchen appliances, etc... etc... it takes a lot of BTUs to bring all of that back to stasis. Once the whole house is stable, it doesn't take much to keep it there. I leave my thermostat set to one temp all the time.

 

[bilbur]

I've always wondered about that.

Hypothetically, lets say I set my t-stat to 60* during the day and night, and, say, 68 during the times I am home.

Would it use more oil, over the day, to keep it at 68, or....

Would it use more oil to let it drop 8 degrees, and then have the furnace kick on for a longer period when I am home?

I have always been told that it is more energy efficient to keep, at least a small place, at a somewhat constant temperature especially in the summer. By letting the place get cold or hot the heater or AC has to cool down not only the air but the walls and furniture also. I have no science to base this on and it would be hard to do an accurate test due to too many environmental variables but this is what I was told and is my current opinion until I am proven wrong. So basically my opinion is subject to change on this discussion.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

If you have a small house, kicking the heat down at night is fine. If you have a large house, I've always thought it better to keep the heat up, maybe only drop it a few degrees. When the whole house drops in temp and you turn up the thermostat to warm it back up again, you have to heat not only the air, but everything in each room. The walls, the floors, the furniture, the metal kitchen appliances, etc... etc... it takes a lot of BTUs to bring all of that back to stasis. Once the whole house is stable, it doesn't take much to keep it there. I leave my thermostat set to one temp all the time.

I have always been told that it is more energy efficient to keep, at least a small place, at a somewhat constant temperature especially in the summer. By letting the place get cold or hot the heater or AC has to cool down not only the air but the walls and furniture also. I have no science to base this on and it would be hard to do an accurate test due to too many environmental variables but this is what I was told and is my current opinion until I am proven wrong. So basically my opinion is subject to change on this discussion.

I've always thought the same thing, and have a few HVAC guys tell me the same thing.

I'd almost have to sit around the house all day and record the length of time, and number of times the furnace cuts on.

I know my nozzle is 0.9 gph, so I could come up with a guestimate of how much oil was used keeping it at a certain temp all day. Then, wait for another day that has a similar outside temp and do the same calcs using a programmed t-stat.

For instance, let's say at 68* inside set temp, and a 30* outside temp, my 3,000sq. ft. house oil furnace turns on for 5 minutes, every hour.

That would mean the oil is burning a total of 120 minutes (2 hours), every day. That's 1.8 gallons per day, and 54 gallons per month (I wish).

Or, in a programmable setting, It's 60* inside set temp for 18 hours a day, and 68* for 6 hours. Hypothetically, at 60*, the burn rate is 5 minutes, every 2 hours. Factor in an additional 25 minuites to reach 68*, and using the same burn rate as above:

At 60*, the furnace is cutting on for a total of 45 minutes. At 68* (including the warm up time) burn time would be 1 hour. So a total of 1 hour and 45 minutes of burn time per day. Thats 1.575 gallons per day, and 47.25 gallons per month.

54 gallons @ $3.50/gal = $189
47.25 gallons @ $3.50/gal = $165.375

5 months @ $189 = $945
5 months @ $165.375 = $826.875

In theory, programming the oil furnace at the settings above would save $118.125 per heating season.

Obviously, so many factors come into play, just spitballing numbers here.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Thermostats | Department of Energy

Turning Down Heat May Save Much More Than Expected : Discovery News : Discovery News

 

[Vince]

Our bill is always high. They keep sending us letters showing we use more power than our surrounding neighbors. I'm surprised they haven't raided our house looking for a pot garden! We have a disable boy and he sleeps with a TV on all night and during the winter, we have to run a floor heater to keep his room warm and those eat up the nickels for sure. He also runs a CP. AND, we need to run anywhere from 3-5 loads of laundry EVERYDAY. All these add up. I can't even imagine what our bill will be this month. !000.00?

SMECO Lies. I get that dayum thing every month. My neighbor doesn't have siding on part of his home. The inside wall shows. And SMECO says I use more elect than they do.

 

[garyt27]

SMECO Lies. I get that dayum thing every month. My neighbor doesn't have siding on part of his home. The inside wall shows. And SMECO says I use more elect than they do.

That's ghetto.

 

[Shutout]

SMECO Lies. I get that dayum thing every month. My neighbor doesn't have siding on part of his home. The inside wall shows. And SMECO says I use more elect than they do.

You actually know what your neighbors energy bill is each month? Strange that your utility would release that information.

 

[Vince]

You actually know what your neighbors energy bill is each month? Strange that your utility would release that information.

Common sense. I have a house that is properly insulated. Neighbors house is not. I have a new energy efficient heat pump. Neighbors, I know, does not. I don't say things lightly and you should not make accusations on things you know nothing about. Utility information is about a month late and a dollar, short if you actually watch it. They report at least a month late.

 

[bzz00]

For any non-heat pump system, you should always turn it down when you are away.

Each house, depending on insulation materials, and physical content has an associated energy load (called J load in HVAC). It is the amount of energy that the house loses per hour. It varies as a function of the delta between the outside and the inside temperature. The load is approximately zero, when the inside and outside temp are equal. You can calculate this load using an online calculator.

So the higher you keep the interior, the more energy is needed to offset the higher loss (higher J load). Now, the advice to keep the temperature constant stems from the growing market of people that have heat pump. Heat pump is super efficient. In mild weather, 40+ winters, in terms of dollars/BTU, they are the cheapest to operate (beats even natural gas). Even when the temperature falls, they are still the second best (after natural gas). The reason this varies is because their efficiency goes down as temperature goes down. Their efficiency approaches 1 (the eff. of resistive heating) as temperature severely drop (-20s, or even lower). So there is a point in which the amount of energy they input into your home is less than the loss the home currently incur. This is where auxiliary heat comes into play. Auxiliary heat, in the form of resistive coil (eff. of 1) supplements this heat pump to negate the loss incur by the home. It is super expensive, it ranges from 12kw coil to 20kw coil. In one hour, a 20kw coil produces roughly 60k BTU, that is $3 at a rate of .15 $/kw.

So for those who operates a heat-pump system, it is in their interest to keep their system from switching to auxiliary resistive coil. The problem lies in the thermostat that most people have. It has a simple logic, that if after x number of minutes, the system does not hit the target temperature, it calls auxiliary resistive heat. The idea behind this logic is a matter of comfort. When you hit that up button, you are saying, I want it at this temperature and I want it now. The only way to do that in a timely manner is through heat pump + resistive heat. Therefore, for those with heat pump, it is better to pick the lowest temperature (to decrease the J load) and keep it there. So that the heat pump can be the sole work horse in maintaining that temperature without the help of aux heating.

For any other heat source, your efficiency is fixed, regardless of outdoor temperature, or indoor temperature. So it is best to keep it low while you're away, or even turn it off.

Sorry for the long post. I keep seeing people bringing up the keeping the constant temperature advice without understanding the reason behind it.

I've always thought the same thing, and have a few HVAC guys tell me the same thing.

I'd almost have to sit around the house all day and record the length of time, and number of times the furnace cuts on.

I know my nozzle is 0.9 gph, so I could come up with a guestimate of how much oil was used keeping it at a certain temp all day. Then, wait for another day that has a similar outside temp and do the same calcs using a programmed t-stat.

For instance, let's say at 68* inside set temp, and a 30* outside temp, my 3,000sq. ft. house oil furnace turns on for 5 minutes, every hour.

That would mean the oil is burning a total of 120 minutes (2 hours), every day. That's 1.8 gallons per day, and 54 gallons per month (I wish).

Or, in a programmable setting, It's 60* inside set temp for 18 hours a day, and 68* for 6 hours. Hypothetically, at 60*, the burn rate is 5 minutes, every 2 hours. Factor in an additional 25 minuites to reach 68*, and using the same burn rate as above:

At 60*, the furnace is cutting on for a total of 45 minutes. At 68* (including the warm up time) burn time would be 1 hour. So a total of 1 hour and 45 minutes of burn time per day. Thats 1.575 gallons per day, and 47.25 gallons per month.

54 gallons @ $3.50/gal = $189
47.25 gallons @ $3.50/gal = $165.375

5 months @ $189 = $945
5 months @ $165.375 = $826.875

In theory, programming the oil furnace at the settings above would save $118.125 per heating season.

Obviously, so many factors come into play, just spitballing numbers here.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Great post, thanks.

Basically, with oil heat, it really doesn't matter what your J load is because it's a pretty constant 130* air temp coming out of the vents (at least, in my case) no matter the outdoor temp?

Eventually, I want to do a hybrid system. R-410 heat pump for the mild part of the winter, then the oil furnace as a backup. Technically though, this year I'm getting a big wood stove insert, so hopefully any heating system will be a backup.

 

[bzz00]

Correct, J load is independent of how you heat your house. It is only used to calculate the loss the house incur due to the temperature difference between inside and outside.

If you are looking to make an overhaul of your HVAC, a heat pump is not a bad choice at all. Choose one with a high HSPF and high SEER/EER. For supplemental heating/backup heating, consider the numbers below. The oil and gas are subject to large price spike due to extreme weather. Wood and pellets are cheap, but they require manual intervention. Natural gas has spiked to a 5 year high, it used to be the best option. These are current market price I pulled today.

Electricity: $0.15/kW at 100% eff. = $43.96 per MBtu
Heating Oil: $4/gallon at 78% eff. = $37.16 per MBtu
Natural Gas: $5/therm at 78% eff. = $62.54 per MBtu
Propane: $3.80/gallon at 78% eff. = $53.34 per MBtu
Dried Wood: $200 per cord at 60% eff. = $16.67 MBtu
Wood Pellet: $250 per ton at 80% eff. = $19.05 MBtu

Great post, thanks.

Basically, with oil heat, it really doesn't matter what your J load is because it's a pretty constant 130* air temp coming out of the vents (at least, in my case) no matter the outdoor temp?

Eventually, I want to do a hybrid system. R-410 heat pump for the mild part of the winter, then the oil furnace as a backup. Technically though, this year I'm getting a big wood stove insert, so hopefully any heating system will be a backup.

 

[daisycreek]

Right like me who only has the temperature inside set at 65-68 when we are home and 58 or so when not home, and I'm still using up around 100 gallons of heating oil a month which equates to about $440 a month to heat about 900 sf. On top of that add the $240 electric bill ......

!000 square foot, propane furnace,two 100 gal tanks filled in april 2013 and just had them topped off 100 gal yesterday. BUT I keep my heat on 54 at night and 45 during the day.

use an oil filled electric heater in the bedroom, and a kerosene heater in the kitchen when its bitter cold. (only til bed time) . electric bill---> 115.00 this month

I use a down comforter on my bed

 

[ArkRescue]

!000 square foot, propane furnace,two 100 gal tanks filled in april 2013 and just had them topped off 100 gal yesterday. BUT I keep my heat on 54 at night and 45 during the day.

use an oil filled electric heater in the bedroom, and a kerosene heater in the kitchen when its bitter cold. (only til bed time) . electric bill---> 115.00 this month

I use a down comforter on my bed

I have a crawlspace so worry about the exposed pipes, therefore I am afraid to go below 55 degrees. You seem to have a good plan working for you .

 

[onelove6366]

55 at night and 45 during the day is too cold for me and I suffer from hot flashes from time to time! Also, IMHO running a kerosene heater inside your home cannot be healthy. We use one as a back-up when the power goes out as we haven't gotten a generator yet and the fumes put my allergies into overdrive and I hate the smell! Factor in the costs of oil for the bedroom heater and kerosene for the kitchen and I think the costs wouldn't seem so low. I don't mind paying for my comfort. PS: We use a heated mattress pad. It is the BOMB!

 

[blazinlow89]

I have tried many different things with the thermostat and the heat pump. Having it drop 10 degrees during the time no one is home made our bill higher. The heat pump ran for over an hour and a half straight to get it back to normal. We found cutting it back overall to 67 all the time, opening the blinds and curtains to let the nice free solar heat in during the day, and closing them at night made a big difference. We are experimenting now with a wall mounted infrared unit I picked up off of woot for $60. Rest of the house is currently at 62, bedroom is a toasty 70. Heat pump has kicked on maybe 6 times in the last 2 days. Usually it is every 2 hours.

Factor in the costs of oil for the bedroom heater

Oil filled just means that it is filled with oil. Used one in my bedroom when I was younger and it always kept it warm.

 

[RPM]

been checking my meter every two days since last bill. smeco better not send me a bill saying i used 3300 kwh next month. averaging 70 a day.

 

[nutz]

been checking my meter every two days since last bill. smeco better not send me a bill saying i used 3300 kwh next month. averaging 70 a day.

I had doubts about my meter vs. billing. SMECO wanted to bill me to have someone come check the meter. Pass. I bought an efergy elite classic to double check my readings. Easy to install and program and I haven't had $550.00+ bill since.....

Efergy USA - Home power monitors and wireless electricity monitors

 

[General Lee]

I had doubts about my meter vs. billing. SMECO wanted to bill me to have someone come check the meter. Pass. I bought an efergy elite classic to double check my readings. Easy to install and program and I haven't had $550.00+ bill since.....

Efergy USA - Home power monitors and wireless electricity monitors

I was checking this thing out, how exactly does it install?