MSNBC’s Chris Hayes Reports on Turkey Assassination, Omits Shouts of ‘Allahu Akbar’

[Larry Gude]

No, I'm making no commentary about whether or not I like the president that did it, or whether the president that did it campaigned on a different platform. My argument is that the actual transformation began many decades prior - prior to GWB's birth, as a matter of fact.

Would we agree that the BIG first step was the Civil war? I think that's where we really changed from a nation of people to a people of a nation.

 

[This_person]

Why? We're a nation of ####ing rebels, damn it. FOUNDED ON IT. I hope and expect him to piss all over 'law' and order or he's gonna be as feckless and hamstrung as Obama on China, NAFTA, TPP and all the rest.

We wanted to shakes things up? Fine. We trust him to do what's best for America? ####in' have at it, Don! Break some eggs!

I'm fine with rebelling against many decades of horrible foreign policy. I said Obama did the right thing by opening Cuba back up, because it's likely to lead (after many MANY years) to a huge change in Cuba's governmental actions.

But, you said that enforcing immigration law was not conservative, that a border wall was somehow against the Constitution, and that indicting a governmental official for known misdeeds in office was somehow jailing a political opponent without due process. These are the things I believe he will handle legally, not outside of law and order. Along with that, you said just being law and order was somehow akin to being a rebel against law and order. I disagreed with that.

But, provided he complies with Senate-approved treaties enforced as international "law", I'm all for him being a rebel.

 

[This_person]

Would we agree that the BIG first step was the Civil war? I think that's where we really changed from a nation of people to a people of a nation.

It could be argued the Louisiana Purchase was the first step, but, yes, we can agree that the first HUGE step was the Civil War. That said, there was no law that allowed states to leave (like previous organizational documents for the sovereign states had, but were specifically left OUT of the Constitution), so Lincoln was in kind of unchartered territory.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm fine with rebelling against many decades of horrible foreign policy. I said Obama did the right thing by opening Cuba back up, because it's likely to lead (after many MANY years) to a huge change in Cuba's governmental actions.

But, you said that enforcing immigration law was not conservative, that a border wall was somehow against the Constitution, and that indicting a governmental official for known misdeeds in office was somehow jailing a political opponent without due process. These are the things I believe he will handle legally, not outside of law and order. Along with that, you said just being law and order was somehow akin to being a rebel against law and order. I disagreed with that.

But, provided he complies with Senate-approved treaties enforced as international "law", I'm all for him being a rebel.

As a conservative;

He can't just plunk a wall down across private party. He can't.
Enforcing immigration laws is one thing. Mass deportations is another.
Indicting Hillary for what a bunch of our federal overlords have done, and are doing, is a recipe for chaos.

If he could, none are conservative in temperament and thought.

I HOPE he is America first; kill TPP, end NAFTA. Default on all the debt to China. Not conservative. Good for America.

 

[This_person]

As a conservative;

He can't just plunk a wall down across private party. He can't.

With that, I agree. He would have to follow due process, originated in the Constitution:

No person shall be held to answer ...nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Enforcing immigration laws is one thing. Mass deportations is another.

Why? What's the cutoff between deporting those you catch and "mass" deportation?

Indicting Hillary for what a bunch of our federal overlords have done, and are doing, is a recipe for chaos.

Chaos or not, violating the law is violating the law.

Now, I get you don't pull over EVERY speeding car on the interstate because you simply can't. But, what you DO do is catch and punish enough to keep control over the speed on the interstate through fear of being caught. You don't have to charge every person, just the one that is well known.

I HOPE he is America first; kill TPP, end NAFTA. Default on all the debt to China. Not conservative. Good for America.

"Good for America" IS conservative.

 

[Larry Gude]

"Good for America" IS conservative.

Not anymore. Psy and I had this argument. Years back I said we gotta slam on the breaks, he said we didn't get here over night, can't turn it around over night. I said we HAD to. He said can't, won't. Shouldn't.

I am now of the mind that it is simply too late, like establishing the running game in the 4th quarter when you've been blown out. Moral victory, yeah, but the game is win OR lose. Not about stats.

 

[This_person]

Not anymore. Psy and I had this argument. Years back I said we gotta slam on the breaks, he said we didn't get here over night, can't turn it around over night. I said we HAD to. He said can't, won't. Shouldn't.

I am now of the mind that it is simply too late, like establishing the running game in the 4th quarter when you've been blown out. Moral victory, yeah, but the game is win OR lose. Not about stats.

Hopefully we are nowhere near the fourth quarter. I rarely disagree with Psy, but it's not too far gone that "can't, won't, shouldn't" is my position. We can turn, but that doesn't mean all things change to exactly what we want simultaneously and completely. It's not like we can pay off our national debt today, but we can borrow less and less for a couple of years, while simultaneously spending less and less (in greater proportion) until we still meet the requirements of the federal government IAW Article One, Section Eight, and taxation exceeds expenditure, THEN we start paying down the debt.