awpitt
Main Streeter
This article fails to mention a key part of the court's ruling..............
Net neutrality court ruling: States can set own rules
Net neutrality court ruling: States can set own rules
Net neutrality - a case to be made for both sides
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
Clem72
Well-Known Member
That's an important distinction. And for whatever reason i'm sure Gurps will respond with some story about how NN is destroying ISPs. You would think a former gardener would know when someone is feeding him crap.
Yooper
Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
My sense (in trying to make sense of it all) is that net neutrality is like socialism: sounds great in theory, but makes everyone worse off in the application.
Would be glad to read thoughts from all comers as to why this
is not so.--- End of line (MCP)
awpitt
Main Streeter
My sense (in trying to make sense of it all) is that net neutrality is like socialism: sounds great in theory, but makes everyone worse off in the application.
Would be glad to read thoughts from all comers as to why this
--- End of line (MCP)
Well, let's say you have Verizon Fios (just pretend). They own Yahoo. Let's say you really like Netflix (just pretend). Well, without Net Neutrality regulations, Verizon Fios is free to throttle back Netflix speeds in favor of Yahoo.
It would be like if SMECO was owned by Whirlpool (just pretend). But, you have Kenmore appliances. And, let's pretend that SMECO had the ability to control the level of electrical current that goes to each item in your house. Well, SMECO would be able to limit the hours per day that Kenmore appliances would be able to be used each day while giving Whirlpool appliances free run.
IP providers are supposed sell you a certain bandwidth for you to use as you please. Net Neutrality preserved that. Without Net Neutrality, your IP provider is free to decide which content get the best streaming speeds and which ones do not. This is especially important to "cord cutters". Without Net Neutrality, Atlantic Broadband is free to throttle back on services like YouTube TV, Netflix, Sling TV, etc.
Clem72
Well-Known Member
The confusion comes from the ISPs who intentionally conflate the issue with Quality of Service, or the "cost" to provide data.
The IPSs say "we need to be to throttle Netflix content, so that we can guarantee we have enough bandwidth for telemedicine and voice over IP services for the deaf&mute". They completely ignore the fact that these are separate issues. They are free, even under the most strict NN rules, to follow class of service guidelines allowing voice to have higher priority than streaming video.
Or they will say "Netflix sends us 1000x as much data as we sent them, so they cost us a lot of money and they should pay extra", which is also a lie. This is a lie based on the way content delivery networks (the in-between networks for content providers and consumer networks). If you send the CDN 100TB of data, and they send you 120TB, you pay them for the 20TB. But nearly all ISP residential customers use more services than they provide so the balance is always against the ISP. The thing is, the customer pays for that bandwidth. All of it. 100%. So there is no reason the ISP should try to get Netflix to also pay for it, other than greed and the perceived notion that they can hold the customers ransom (I.E. make the customer experience so miserable that they stop using the service). What's even more infuriating is that most large content providers will provide ISPs localized content servers (meaning they will give Verizon a server with ALL of their content so Verizon never has to pay a cent to use someone else' network to stream said content). The only reason some choose not to, is to try and use it as an argument against NN or to support their own competing service.
Nearly every argument you hear against NN is made up from whole cloth. But the problem is that most of the people you listen to are invested in one side or the other. You watch TV? Those guys are owned by the big ISPs so you will hear mostly anti-NN arguments. Listen to the big Tech companies, those guys are most content providers and will give you pro-NN arguments. So why not just listen to your average IT nerd? The guys who do it for a living and know the ins and outs. Every one of those I have ever discussed the issue with is pro NN. You trust your doctor over the pharmaceutical commercials on the TV, right? You trust your brother in law, the auto mechanic about an issue with your car over the dealership that is trying to sell you a replacement. Why do the Anti-NN people ignore the actual experts, some of whom they may know personally, in favor of politicians who don't even know how to type an e-mail for themselves and are paid millions by the ISPs?
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If there ever was a classic case for federal jurisdiction this would be it. The internet crosses state lines, there isn't really a practical way for one state to regulate a business in another state just because the wires cross their state.
It would be like have different vehicle standards and trying to impose that standards on the interstate highways.
Going on the hypothetical arguments, if Verizon throttles Google because they favor Yahoo, then find a provided that either doesn't or does the reverse. Isn't that the beauty of capitalism, competition, freedom of choice.
I go back to the same argument, if Google doesn't like what Verizon is doing, Google can invest their billions into building and branding their internet service package. Or they can pay Verizon for the additional bandwidth.
Dems Got Hysterical About FCC Chairman Rejecting Net Neutrality. Two Years Later, He’s Vindicated And Firing Back.
Pai spearheaded the repeal of net neutrality and was rewarded with death threats from Leftists who had been convinced by Democrats and the media that the Internet couldn’t exist without a regulation finalized in 2015 despite the Internet being around for decades before. Somehow, these people though that the Internet was unusable in 2013 and before, and therefore the world would end if we were to go back to those days. For the record, we still had Facebook and Twitter back then. Maybe we would get Vine back, but other than that there really wasn’t much of a difference.
The death threats against Pai and his family were so specific that a hearing on net neutrality featuring Pai was cancelled in December 2017 “on advice of security.” In May 2019, a man was sentenced to 18 months in prison after he threatened to kill Pai the previous year.
As Hasson noted, not one person in the media or the Democratic Party has been held accountable for the blatant fearmongering around net neutrality.
Pai spearheaded the repeal of net neutrality and was rewarded with death threats from Leftists who had been convinced by Democrats and the media that the Internet couldn’t exist without a regulation finalized in 2015 despite the Internet being around for decades before. Somehow, these people though that the Internet was unusable in 2013 and before, and therefore the world would end if we were to go back to those days. For the record, we still had Facebook and Twitter back then. Maybe we would get Vine back, but other than that there really wasn’t much of a difference.
The death threats against Pai and his family were so specific that a hearing on net neutrality featuring Pai was cancelled in December 2017 “on advice of security.” In May 2019, a man was sentenced to 18 months in prison after he threatened to kill Pai the previous year.
As Hasson noted, not one person in the media or the Democratic Party has been held accountable for the blatant fearmongering around net neutrality.
How We Used Internet During Lockdowns Proves Ending Net Neutrality Was The Right Call
If anything, how well American internet service has performed during the pandemic and stay-at-home orders proves criticism of repeal was way overblown. FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr wrote of the economic lockdown period that “America’s Internet infrastructure is showing strength, speed, and resilience,” outpacing other countries.
In Europe, for example, Netflix and YouTube were asked to slow their content to lower resolutions so the data would not interfere with more important communications in countries with sluggish internet. Bret Swanson, a visiting fellow at American Enterprise Institute, pointed out that Netflix came up with an alternative solution of prioritizing slower speeds for areas with bigger health crises or less robust broadband. Swanson notes this smart solution “is the type of traffic management Netflix and other advocates of strong net neutrality spent the last 15 years telling us was evil.”
Former FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler, the head of the commission under President Obama that imposed net neutrality regulations, raved in April about how well the internet was holding up, writing for Brookings that “credit is due to the nation’s broadband providers.”
Broadband Now found that some cities, particularly larger U.S. cities, experienced slowdowns in speeds due to the massive traffic increase. But the vast majority of networks still hummed along at speeds that “can support critical remote work and learning tasks.”
If anything, how well American internet service has performed during the pandemic and stay-at-home orders proves criticism of repeal was way overblown. FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr wrote of the economic lockdown period that “America’s Internet infrastructure is showing strength, speed, and resilience,” outpacing other countries.
In Europe, for example, Netflix and YouTube were asked to slow their content to lower resolutions so the data would not interfere with more important communications in countries with sluggish internet. Bret Swanson, a visiting fellow at American Enterprise Institute, pointed out that Netflix came up with an alternative solution of prioritizing slower speeds for areas with bigger health crises or less robust broadband. Swanson notes this smart solution “is the type of traffic management Netflix and other advocates of strong net neutrality spent the last 15 years telling us was evil.”
Former FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler, the head of the commission under President Obama that imposed net neutrality regulations, raved in April about how well the internet was holding up, writing for Brookings that “credit is due to the nation’s broadband providers.”
Broadband Now found that some cities, particularly larger U.S. cities, experienced slowdowns in speeds due to the massive traffic increase. But the vast majority of networks still hummed along at speeds that “can support critical remote work and learning tasks.”
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FCC Votes to Reinstate Net Neutrality
On Thursday, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), by a 3-2 vote, reinstated the Obama-era net neutrality rule.
This may prove futile, as an incoming Trump administration could simply repeal the rule again. But for the time being, the policy stands, barring any future legal challenge.
The FCC's Chair, Jessica Rosenworcel, released a statement:
This rule does, however, effectively regulate the prices that broadband providers charge consumers, as it disallows high-volume customers from being charged a higher periodic rate than lower-volume consumers. If that's not regulating prices, it's not at all clear what might be.
Republican members of the FCC disagreed sharply.