New Kansas law allows agencies to refuse LGBT adoptions

[black dog]

Going along with your last few paragraphs, my ex and I went many years trying to have a kid and nothing, everytime we thought about adopting "poof " on the evening news that an adopted kid chopped up their adaptive parents or lit the house on fire, and it would squash any thoughts of us adopting a child.
And then we had our own..

But, Big ups to you and your other for raising a handicapped child, thats doing a good thing..

Most gay since birth folks I know, Including some in my family have no desire to have or raise children, lol... Now in the not gay since birth, I know quite a few folks that have kids and are great parents, even through horrible divorces when coming out, and today have good relationships with their ex's.

The Youth Opportunity Center just opened a new center in New Castle, Indiana that takes children that were put in the sex industry. She's been there twice and it's really affected her. It reminds her why she stopped doing family law.
There are some adults out their that just need to be put to sleep.

 

[SamSpade]

Most gay since birth folks I know, Including some in my family have no desire to have or raise children, lol...

I have a gay brother-in-law that my kids love so much - my middle girl sobbed all day when he left to fly back home.
When he comes, he might as well be Santa Claus - they get so excited. He's just very good with kids - he strikes me
sometimes as the kind of man who would do VERY well on a children's show on TV.

You know - I'm wondering if all my favorite kid's show personalities growing up - WERE gay?

While he's SAID he has no interest in raising kids - he is our first choice for raising ours should the Lord call us both home.
He HAS said he thinks any kid being raised by gay parents would face an additional problem growing up that they don't need.
He says BEING gay can be hard enough - why make it hard for a kid to have to deal with society?

 

[SamSpade]

Going along with your last few paragraphs, my ex and I went many years trying to have a kid and nothing, everytime we thought about adopting "poof " on the evening news that an adopted kid chopped up their adaptive parents or lit the house on fire, and it would squash any thoughts of us adopting a child.
And then we had our own..

Now that we've talked all that through - there's a marginal subject that does concern me.
When I was reading about the school shooters, I came across an article describing the worst shooters in our nation's history.
With all the talk about why they did what they did, one statistic did come up - almost all of them grew up without a father.

This is no disrespect to single parents - both of my sisters were, and my mom was up until she met my father and had me.
But in addition to other discussions I've been part of on here where I believe boys NEED outlets to BE boys - they need at
the very least, a strong father figure if not a real dad. I do think the best situation is when a child has a life with both
parents who care for each other and are good mother and father. My mother and father had strong personalities, deeply
loved each other but they taught me different things. My mom was/is a fun-loving person who taught me humor, wonder,
intellectual curiosity and compassion. My father - who passed two years ago - taught me about hard work, integrity, loyalty,
responsibility, finances - and faith. I used to say that my father taught me there's no shame in saying "I don't know" - but it
was my mom who taught me to go find out anyway. My mom taught me to say "I'm sorry" - but my dad taught me to
follow up with "and it will never happen again".

There was a balance there that I think is good for all kids - but - it bothers me that the basic family is deteriorating in our culture.

 

[black dog]

I have a gay brother-in-law that my kids love so much - my middle girl sobbed all day when he left to fly back home.
When he comes, he might as well be Santa Claus - they get so excited. He's just very good with kids - he strikes me
sometimes as the kind of man who would do VERY well on a children's show on TV.

You know - I'm wondering if all my favorite kid's show personalities growing up - WERE gay?

While he's SAID he has no interest in raising kids - he is our first choice for raising ours should the Lord call us both home.
He HAS said he thinks any kid being raised by gay parents would face an additional problem growing up that they don't need.
He says BEING gay can be hard enough - why make it hard for a kid to have to deal with society?

As long as Allan Ladd in Shane doesn't come out, I'm Good..

And I have a strait brother that divorced over her wanting children.
Manly man, is great with my son. Has taken him skiing, hunting and backpacking throughout Colorado, Montana and so on.
But the thought him being a parent, not a ####ing chance...

 

[black dog]

Now that we've talked all that through - there's a marginal subject that does concern me.
When I was reading about the school shooters, I came across an article describing the worst shooters in our nation's history.
With all the talk about why they did what they did, one statistic did come up - almost all of them grew up without a father.

This is no disrespect to single parents - both of my sisters were, and my mom was up until she met my father and had me.
But in addition to other discussions I've been part of on here where I believe boys NEED outlets to BE boys - they need at
the very least, a strong father figure if not a real dad. I do think the best situation is when a child has a life with both
parents who care for each other and are good mother and father. My mother and father had strong personalities, deeply
loved each other but they taught me different things. My mom was/is a fun-loving person who taught me humor, wonder,
intellectual curiosity and compassion. My father - who passed two years ago - taught me about hard work, integrity, loyalty,
responsibility, finances - and faith. I used to say that my father taught me there's no shame in saying "I don't know" - but it
was my mom who taught me to go find out anyway. My mom taught me to say "I'm sorry" - but my dad taught me to
follow up with "and it will never happen again".

There was a balance there that I think is good for all kids - but - it bothers me that the basic family is deteriorating in our culture.

My older sister and I spent a bunch of our childhood growing up with single enlisted Navy father, and a almost non-existent mother. Lots of time spent with our grandfather or great aunt's and uncle's.
All with strong Christian beliefs and heavy handed paddle..
But yes, the family unit is in serious jeopardy.

 

[officeguy]

I have a gay brother-in-law that my kids love so much - my middle girl sobbed all day when he left to fly back home.
When he comes, he might as well be Santa Claus - they get so excited. He's just very good with kids - he strikes me
sometimes as the kind of man who would do VERY well on a children's show on TV.

You know - I'm wondering if all my favorite kid's show personalities growing up - WERE gay?

While he's SAID he has no interest in raising kids - he is our first choice for raising ours should the Lord call us both home.
He HAS said he thinks any kid being raised by gay parents would face an additional problem growing up that they don't need.
He says BEING gay can be hard enough - why make it hard for a kid to have to deal with society?

The issue in Kansas is not whether gay couples can or cannot raise adoptive kids. The issue is whether the state should force religious adoption agencies to serve same sex couples. As there are presumably non-religious agencies available ot anyone, I don't see a compelling reason for the state to force individual agencies to serve everyone.

Maybe there should be a disclosure requirement for agencies that have that particular hangup so an agency doesn't start taking a couples money to to then turn around and drop them due to ideological reasons 1/2 way through the process.

 

[black dog]

The issue in Kansas is not whether gay couples can or cannot raise adoptive kids. The issue is whether the state should force religious adoption agencies to serve same sex couples. As there are presumably non-religious agencies available ot anyone, I don't see a compelling reason for the state to force individual agencies to serve everyone.

Maybe there should be a disclosure requirement for agencies that have that particular hangup so an agency doesn't start taking a couples money to to then turn around and drop them due to ideological reasons 1/2 way through the process.

Why is there the need for laws?
Post it openly on who you are willing to do business with and let it work out on it's own. If there is truly a need for services needed by those who can't be served by others, then they should start a new business serving those that other businesses will not serve.

Like one of my sister's stated after the cake fiasco, why would I want to do business with a business that doesn't want to do business with me...
I would simply find another bakery that wants to do business with me.

 

[SamSpade]

The issue in Kansas is not whether gay couples can or cannot raise adoptive kids. The issue is whether the state should force religious adoption agencies to serve same sex couples.

And you know what? I agree with that as well. If a guy runs a Jewish deli, he shouldn't be compelled to serve non-kosher food. That's fair.
There's other delis around.

I don't think people should be compelled to go against their beliefs, especially when there are a lot of alternatives.

 

[SamSpade]

Like one of my sister's stated after the cake fiasco, why would I want to do business with a business that doesn't want to do business with me...
I would simply find another bakery that wants to do business with me.

And I don't see it either - for some reason, going to another place just wasn't enough - they had to be *punished* for refusing.

I don't know the laws, but I don't understand them, either. It seems to me you should have the right to refuse business with anyone,
as long as the alternative is reasonable. If you're the only doctor in town, you don't have the right to refuse a Jew or a woman because
your religion forbids you to interact or touch them.

What I don't get is - a business - say a restaurant or a lunch counter - would not be able to refuse someone who is black.
Even if every other restaurant in town did NOT refuse. What would be the case if a Muslim refused to serve a Jew?
Would that be permitted? What if it wasn't religious - what if it was, say, ethnic, such as a Pakistani refusing an Indian?
Or any European country refusing say, Romani ("gypsy")? What if it was just plain - hate?

Could you be obligated to serve someone at your business - who just got out of jail for killing your sister?

What does the law allow and forbid?

 

[GURPS]

Like one of my sister's stated after the cake fiasco, why would I want to do business with a business that doesn't want to do business with me...
I would simply find another bakery that wants to do business with me.

that involves common sense ... Progressives want to force you to conform

 

[Chris0nllyn]

that involves common sense ... Progressives want to force you to conform

Did you forget what thread you posted this in?

 

[black dog]

And I don't see it either - for some reason, going to another place just wasn't enough - they had to be *punished* for refusing.

I don't know the laws, but I don't understand them, either. It seems to me you should have the right to refuse business with anyone,
as long as the alternative is reasonable. If you're the only doctor in town, you don't have the right to refuse a Jew or a woman because
your religion forbids you to interact or touch them.

What I don't get is - a business - say a restaurant or a lunch counter - would not be able to refuse someone who is black.
Even if every other restaurant in town did NOT refuse. What would be the case if a Muslim refused to serve a Jew?
Would that be permitted? What if it wasn't religious - what if it was, say, ethnic, such as a Pakistani refusing an Indian?
Or any European country refusing say, Romani ("gypsy")? What if it was just plain - hate?

Could you be obligated to serve someone at your business - who just got out of jail for killing your sister?

What does the law allow and forbid?

I don't know, I'm just glad that I don't have a service type of business that serves the public. I would fail rather quickly I believe.

 

[officeguy]

Why is there the need for laws?
Post it openly on who you are willing to do business with and let it work out on it's own. If there is truly a need for services needed by those who can't be served by others, then they should start a new business serving those that other businesses will not serve.

Well, we shouldn't need a law if every business (and adoption agencies are a business) was up front about those things. If there are agencies that take your money and then tell you that they don't want to provide you with the service, we have a problem.

Like one of my sister's stated after the cake fiasco, why would I want to do business with a business that doesn't want to do business with me...
I would simply find another bakery that wants to do business with me.

The cake fiasco wasn't about cake. The 'movement' needed a case to take through the courts and the baker in a friendly venue was just the ticket.