Pet Adoption Getting Out of Hand

[Cowgirl]

No, Cari, I don't think people should give up their cats instead of declawing them. Why don't they just work with the cat and teach it not to claw the furniture??? My point is (and I think you totally missed it) is that pets are not born knowing how to act in a house. Owners have to teach them...just like parents teach children not to touch hot things or how to crap in a toilet. I was using the example of cats and furniture, because sometimes owners take the easy route instead of teaching the cat that it is not acceptable to claw the furniture. For example...an owner could supply the cat with a scratching pad, clip the cat's nails, or use a spray bottle to spray the cat with water when the cat claws. It won't take long before the cat learns not to do that. That was my point.

 

[cattitude]

Originally posted by cmcdanal
By that, do you mean it costs more? It can't be anymore than requiring the animal be fixed, since any vet worth anything would insist on a check up and shots before or at the time of the spay/neuter.

Do they make you jump through hoops? I mean require home inspections, extensive interviews etc.?

I adopted an already neutered dog from them 4-5 years ago. My son and I went in, filled out application. I can't recall the $$ but it was under $100 but he'd already been neutered. I've been involved with animal fostering, etc. for most of my life. I give references and have never had a problem adopting any animal. Heck...they find ME!! A lot of places will check with your vet to see that your animals are vetted as necessary, etc.

I don't get what the problem with is with home inspections and interviews. These people put a lot of time and effort into these animals, not to mention bucks. If you've ever been involved on the "other" side, you'd certainly understand a little better where they are coming from. To me, an animal is not much different than a child in that you are responsible for providing a caring, happy and safe environment for that animal.

 

[Frostillicus]

Originally posted by Cowgirl
how to crap in a toilet

Way to turn a phrase! So, what are you wearing?

 

[Cowgirl]

This is annoying. You're putting words into my mouth. I think it is good to spay/neuter pets. I don't agree with cosmetic things such as tail docking, ear cropping, etc. I never said ALL declawing was bad. Geesh. I gave the example of nails and furniture. Are you satisfied?

 

[cattitude]

Originally posted by cariblue
I'm still a little confused.

It's okay to nip any pets nads so it doesn't reproduce, run away, behave aggressively, etc. It's okay to snip away at ears and tails to make them more attractive (completely cosmetic), but it's not a good idea to have a cat declawed. Help me out here.

Cari, I'm not in favor of snipping ears or declawing cats. Docking tails at a few days old is relatively painless. I've worked at a vet and have seen the pain of ripping claws from the sockets and slicing a dogs ears...no thanks. However, I'm a realist. If it's the only way an owner can keep the pet and the owner and the pet are happier, then I think that's what counts in the end.

 

[Cowgirl]

@ Frostillicus

 

[Oz]

My cat was declawed with a laser ($75 extra) when she was about 6 months old. She's a happy camper, and her back claws still tear up enough stuff, including my arms from time to time. I'll never have a cat with claws. But the declawed kitten/cat will have plenty to eat, fresh water, toys, and never have to step out of her air conditioned environment. She seems to love me, everyone else, and her life anyway.

 

[Hello6]

Back to your wanting a GSD

Check out the Animal Controls/Animal Mangements in the area that don't post their stuff on the internet. Pound dogs are a pretty good investment. Down here in Norfolk, its 65 bucks for the spay/neuter, distemper shots and an additional 17 at the vets office when you pick up the dog from surgery. Not that it'll help you but there's a GSD female there right now, kinda timid that needs a home. I've been in animal rescue mode lately, just thought I'd share another perspective. My S/O couldn't get a dog from a local rescue group cause he didn't have a fenced in yard. Got a dog from Washington DC Humane Society and it's happy ever after for them. Rescue groups do go pretty far to ensure the dogs they've rescued aren't in danger of being abandoned again.
And the declawing debate: Not for it, but only because I saw how the "country vet" did it about 16 years ago: Pulled them out with a pliers while the cat was knocked out. I'm letting my cats keep their claws. Nobody really is claw agressive in my clan.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by cattitude
I adopted an already neutered dog from them 4-5 years ago. My son and I went in, filled out application. I can't recall the $$ but it was under $100 but he'd already been neutered. I've been involved with animal fostering, etc. for most of my life. I give references and have never had a problem adopting any animal. Heck...they find ME!! A lot of places will check with your vet to see that your animals are vetted as necessary, etc.

I don't get what the problem with is with home inspections and interviews. These people put a lot of time and effort into these animals, not to mention bucks. If you've ever been involved on the "other" side, you'd certainly understand a little better where they are coming from. To me, an animal is not much different than a child in that you are responsible for providing a caring, happy and safe environment for that animal.

I never said I had a problem with any of the adoption procedures that animal shelters have today. I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I know they are trying to do the best thing for the animals.

I was actually addressing the original subject of this thread. The idea that pet adoptions often require an investment of time and money before you can even take the pet home. I was just suggesting that Bru actually check our local Southern MD shelter because I don't think the process there is too involved or too expensive. I mentioned the adoption interview I had, to illustrate that it didn't have to be a big deal.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by cariblue
That's how Jack was, and always the life of the party. His agression didn't get too bad until he was about 3, and at 13 healthy, muscular lbs he was a kitty to be reckoned with. Had I known he would become aggressive, I would have had him declawed when he was still a kitten. He never scratched the furniture. He did tear up a few door jams trying to climb them, though. He was a hoot. RIP.

I actually "converted" the coolest cat on earth from 3 years of outdoor/porch living, to an indoor cat. He loved being indoors, but he thought my chair/stereo speakers/everything was a scratching post. After 3 months of trying to "train" him, he clawed through my living room chair. I then had him declawed. He never told me he minded, and he remained the coolest cat on earth. He was in the center when company visited. He was in my lap every night and laid along my legs while I scratched his head every night until we both fell asleep. (Don't tell my wife about that or she'll want her back scratched every night! -- He didn't jump on the bed until lights out so she never knew!) When he wasn't there to go to bed one night, I went looking for him. Unfortunately, he was gone when I found him. He had a good 11 years, and I still miss him!

After a miserable Friday that started about 5:30am digging in the back yard, Saturday we went looking for a new pussy. After checking at the Pet Wellness Clinic's Saturday adoption, we found a kitten at a mennonite nursery in Loveville. There was never a question about whether or not she would be declawed. Laser surgery cuts the recovery period by 2/3rd's. After she was declawed, I went out and bought a new chair, and guess what? Those back claws can still tear up the furniture. But, we'll just have to make the best of it!

My point is that an outdoor cat should not be declawed under any circumstance. But it certainly should be an option for 100% indoor cats. And I don't see any indication of the cruelty that some people claim it to be. If it were, I would think the cat's disposition would be effected by the procedure.

 

[Bruzilla]

Here's my perspective: I want a dog, of a specific breed. I'm not out to save the world; I'm not out to rectify wrongs; I'm not out to avenge poorly treated animals; and I'm not wanting to be super owner. I've had dogs all of my life, and I'm looking for a new one.

The point of my post was that I think that all efforts eventually reach a point of diminishing returns, and I think a lot of these rescue leagues have hit it.... passed it actually. I do realize how much it costs to run one of these leagues, but that's the price of doing business so to speak. If your goal is to get these dogs into a good home instead of a gas chamber, then you'd better plan on taking a big hit to your wallet or purse. It's going to be a money-losing enterprise. If they aren't prepared to sink a lot of personal money into the operation, they shouldn't be in it.

I think that a lot of these rescue leagues need to take a hard look at what they are offering compared to buying a puppy. I can get a Malamute puppy for the same cost of adopting one from the Malamute Rescue folks, so there's no real cost benefit. On top of that, I'm likely going to be getting someone else's problems that they had with the dog (lack of training, bad behavior, agressiveness, etc.) Also, since the dog must be altered there's no way they can be bred AND you can't get papers. And lastly, you have to deal with all of the time and trouble of the adoption process that these groups have in place. So... aside from bypassing the puppy stage, where's the benefit of adopting???

I think that if these rescue leagues want to stay around, without bankrupting the owners, they need a better business philosophy.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
I think that if these rescue leagues want to stay around, without bankrupting the owners, they need a better business philosophy.

That's the problem. You have them confused with a business. They are charities, run by do-gooders. They do a lot of good for the community, and thank goodness we have them! But, it sounds like you have an unreasonable expectation of customer service from what is basically a charity. You're not their customer, the dog is.

 

[SxyPrincess]

Originally posted by Oz
That's the problem. You have them confused with a business. They are charities, run by do-gooders. They do a lot of good for the community, and thank goodness we have them! But, it sounds like you have an unreasonable expectation of customer service from what is basically a charity. You're not their customer, the dog is.

 

[cattitude]

Originally posted by Oz
That's the problem. You have them confused with a business. They are charities, run by do-gooders. They do a lot of good for the community, and thank goodness we have them! But, it sounds like you have an unreasonable expectation of customer service from what is basically a charity. You're not their customer, the dog is.

Exactly, Oz. He's missing the point. And Bru, the reason they have the animals neutered/spayed is so morons can't get a purebred and indiscriminately breed them or "accidentally" have litters. Also, Bru, you can get "papers" for rescue dogs.

One of the benefits of adoption, especially if you get a purebred, is that you do, in fact, pay less. A puppy will need months of vet care, shots, worming, etc. Breeders do the basic and after that, it's your responsibility. Not to mention the hundreds of dollars you pay initially for a WELL-BRED purebred puppy from a responsible breeder. Spaying and neutering for large dogs, i.e., GSD's, is over $100. (Rescues get discounts.) Then you have the chewing...and GSD pups are notorius chewers, the carpet/floors that are peed and pooped on. GSDs need to be trained and they need a lot of owner interaction. When you get an older dog, especially from a rescue, you know just what you are getting. Does this dog like kids? Cats? Will it jump a fence? Is is housebroken? What other bad habits does it have?

Many dogs that end up in rescue are not just strays. They are dogs that owners have given up...many times by owners who didn't understand the breed or the responsibility of owning an animal.

Bru, I suggest you research these rescue groups before you comment. These people would rather put a dog down than have it wind up in the wrong hands. You are just dissatisfied with the process of adoption.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Oz
You're not their customer, the dog is.

Then they're not doing very well by their customer if they'd rather see it gassed than living in a home where they might not have a human around 24/7. That was actually one of the questions they asked us when we adopted Browser the Cyberdog - will he be alone in the house for extended periods of time, do we work, do we have children, blah blah blah. We're in the happy position that we could (and did) take the dog to work with us, but the shelter made it clear that they hesitate to place an animal with people who go off to work and leave the dog alone.

Animal Nazis annoy me. Why go to all the trouble and expense of adopting from a shelter when you can look in just about any classified ads place and find free puppies that you can simply pick up and take home?

These tards do this with adopting children, too. My girlfriend went through hell and back before she was finally able to adopt her daughter. Like the kid is so much better off at a state run home.

So sorry, doggies - it's not that nobody wants you, it's just that your jailers have made it too hard for us to actually take you home.

 

[Bruzilla]

Thank you Vrai... finally someone who gets it!

I think that Oz and the others like to think in terms of the ideal rather than the realistic. I hate to say it, but these shelters do need to look at things from a business viewpoint. How many of you posted about how much it costs to operate these shelters? Costs of doing business... sounds pretty businessey to me. The need to recoup costs... sounds pretty businessey to me.

Whether the shelter is a business or a volunteer operation, there are two customers: the pet and the owner. As long as there is a a 1:1 ratio of these customers, life is grand. But that's rarely (if ever) the case. There will always be more animals needing adoption than people wanting to adopt. Why? Because potential owners have choices: pet shops, breeders, classifieds, newspapers, friends, etc., to get their pet. The pets needing homes usually have two choices: Adoption or a one-way walk to the little room that no one likes to talk about.

If a shelter or league is to be "profitable", meaning reaping the rewards of their efforts (measured in successfully adopted pets), they need to have "business" strategies that make them more compatible with their customers. Instead they are more and more making life harder for their customers. If adoption groups are going to charge high fees to cover their expenses, at the cost of not getting animals adopted, then they are doing their "customers" a disservice. Like I've said before, if you're going to start one of these operations you had best be prepared to lose a lot of money on it. And if you're not willing to lose money then you don't need to be doing it.

The point that I am trying to make is exactly what Vrai had to say. The policies of these shelters are making it too dang hard to adopt a pet. A while back I found some kittens and took them to a shelter where they were euthenized shortly thereafter. Why? Because who wants to pay $75 to adopt a kitten when there are dozens of them for free?

Is it worse to place an animal with a less-than-ideal owner than it is to suffocate them? I think that if the pets, the "Customers" to some of you, had a voice they would have a far different opinion than the people at the shelters.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
Thank you Vrai... finally someone who gets it!

I think that Oz and the others like to think in terms of the ideal rather than the realistic.

Actually, I was just pointing out the perspective (or lack thereof) of the non-business people who run these charities. As a businessperson, when you deal with someone who doesn't have the daily problems of running a business and serving the customer, you have to step back to their perspective, or you're really going to be p!$$ed off when the service doesn't meet your expectations. When you deal with a charity, you have to step back even further, because they're used to people serving them, not the other way around.

I figured you'd pick that up when I said the dog was their customer.

 

[cattitude]

Have you ever been involved in animal rescue? Until you have, you have no idea what's involved. You want to see "less than ideal" owners?? Take a peek at Animal Planet and watch Animal Cops. Read a few of the rescue sites. When you actually work with shelters and rescues, you can actually speak to both sides of the coin.

Shelters are very different from rescue organizations and you cannot compare the two. Rescue organizations go into the "business" of rescuing animals with their eyes open. They're aware it's a money-losing business or maybe break even at best. They do it because they love the animals. Rescues don't euthanize the animals in most cases. They do fund raisers, they rely on the generosity of individuals to help with the costs of caring for these animals. Shelters, on the other hand, are ususally subsidized by the counties they serve. There are kill shelters and no-kill shelters. No so long ago, many shelters were just happy to have an animal adopted without concern for the type of home the animal would have. Sure, kittens and puppies are cute but people often tire of them when they're grown or display inappropriate behavior. You'd be surprised at the reasons given for turning a dog over. Had a guy bring in a Great Dane because he got too big. What the he!! was the guy thinking when he got the dog? So who protects the animal? Sure, there's the person who wants to adopt from the shelter and doesn't have the money to pay the fee but can give it a good home. Where do you draw the line? You have to have some standards to ensure that they can take care of the animal from a monetary standpoint as well as having the proper accomodations to house the animal.

A $75 kitten from a shelter is a steal. Let's see, it's spayed/neutered, has a first series of shots and is dewormed. Get ya a free kitten and take it to the vet and see what your first visit costs...and that won't include the spaying or neutering.

You think $200 is too high for a dog that in most cases is housebroken, has some obedience training, you know it's problems...both health and personality and has been completely vetted. Sure you can get a $200 purebred puppy. But, remember, you get what you pay for. Something that comes to mind is that you have a child or cat at your home. You got to the shelter and pick up a GSD that seems very nice, good with your child that you took to the shelter with you. But suppose this dog was just timid in the shelter and once at home doesn't like children and you only find out because he bites your child, or he kills your cat because you didn't know if he was cat agressive or even dog aggressive. Rescue dogs are extensively kid tested, cat tested, dog tested, etc. They are exposed to many social situations to see their reactions.

Is euthanizing an animal better than placing it with a less than ideal owner? That's a hard call because there are different levels of less than ideal and that's exactly why these organizations want you to fill out an application and talk with you. Once you actually get into the process, you'll find that these organizations are willing to work with you and help you find a dog/cat that is suited to your home environment.

Bru, you're talking like these rescues are upset that they are losing money. While they are constantly looking for ways to generate income, their first concern is the welfare of the animal. They could care less if you think their fee is too high or you don't want to fool with their application. They are not looking to adopt to you.

I could go on and on. This is no easy solution to the over population and mistreatment of animals. People need to begin with educating themselves about what is involved PRIOR to getting their pets.

You guys are entitled to your opinions, and I could very well be an animal nazi. Everybody has their passion, mine happens to be animals.

 

[Cowgirl]

Thank you Cattitude!!!!!! Very well put. If I were a dog in a shelter, I'd rather be put down than have to go live in a bad home. And I'm not talking about a home where the owner is gone for 8 hours during the day to work. I mean be real...most owners can't be with their pet all day. I am not with my dog all day, but I don't feel bad because when I am with him, I give him lots of attention. Animals are in shelters because of ignorant backyard breeders..."oops, my dog went out and got knocked up again." I saw an ad in the classifieds a few months ago that said something like "my slutty dog got pregnant again." I got so mad....do you really think dogs can help it? How about you get off your lazy azz and spay or neuter your pet! You wouldn't believe how many people let their animals run around having litter after litter...then they complain about having to take care of all the babies. If irresponsible breeders would knock it off, then shelters wouldn't be overrun with animals. I would MUCH rather go to the shelter and pay the fee to adopt a healthy animal that has already been altered than to go to some backyard breeder that can't even spell the breed of the animal properly. Goodness knows that the animal is probably inbred with all kinds of health problems. I would never ever buy a puppy or kitten from a pet shop either. Then you're just giving business to puppy/kitten mills where the poor animals are kept in cages and only let out when it's time for them to breed again.

I could go on and on....but the point is, when you adopt a dog, you're saving its life. I read a saying once...something like "When you adopt a dog, the world doesn't change...but the world changes for that dog."

You know, I mentioned it earlier, but if you can't deal with the process of adopting a dog, can you really deal with taking care of that animal for the rest of its life? I have adopted several dogs from the Tri-County shelter, and it was a piece of cake.

These tards do this with adopting children, too. My girlfriend went through hell and back before she was finally able to adopt her daughter. Like the kid is so much better off at a state run home.

OMG, Vrai, do you really think adopting a child should be taken lightly?? Let me tell you, a child would me MUCH better off in a state home than to be adopted to people who would abuse it in any way. I think people should have to go through a pretty thorough process before they're allowed to adopt a child. On the same note, sometimes I think people should have to do the same thing to even have their own child!

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Cowgirl
I think people should have to go through a pretty thorough process before they're allowed to adopt a child.

Yet any teenage crack whore who is lucid enough to spread her legs can get as many children as they want. And get PAID to do it, no less! What a world.

Screening is one thing - but they go overboard with it in pet and child adoptions. Like I said, the shelter we got our dog from doesn't like to adopt out dogs to homes where no one's there during the day. They'd rather keep the dog in a cage or gas it.

Then there's that silly myth of unwanted children. There are tons of families that want to adopt - any race, any age, any background. But the adoption process is so arduous and expensive that many families give up. So the kid gets to grow up in the system, rather than with a family that loves it. Again, what a world.