Politician: Discharge Muslims from U.S. Military

[Starman3000m]

If they do it constitutionally why would you object?

Can't. That's why I have stated previously that this is where our Constitution is vulnerable, thus, if such change were to be made you would lose all of your present U.S. Constitutional your rights as well, unless you converted to Islam.

My argument is that I would not like to see that happen for my and my family's sake or anyone else's - even American-Muslims who have been westernized, tasted the freedoms of this society but are prevented from changing their religion by decree of Sharia Law.

 

[Starman3000m]

Wirelessly posted



I will admit that I have not read the founding documents of other nations; maybe I should. I don't see how that applies to a conservation about OUR founding documents, however.#

Theocracy: "government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided" (Webster's). I'm taking the definition literally. If the founding fathers wanted to state that we were a Christian nation (or one founded on Christian principles) they would have said "We the people of the United States in a firm belief of the being and perfection of the one living and true God, the creator and supreme Governor of the World, in His universal providence and the authority of His laws... do ordain, etc." rather than what we have now (what they originally and intentionally wrote). (The above quote is actually from#William Williams of the Constitutional Congress. He proposed this as the preamble...now why would he have done that if we were always a Christian nation?)

What I'm addressing here is that many claim that we are a Christian nation; you switched the wording to 'Christian-influenced' nation. I cannot argue that our laws are 'Christian-influenced' in so much as one could say ANY law stating that one shall not lie is 'Christian-influenced' because it happens to be in the Bible.

This is where the debate often turns from "America is, and has always been, a Christian nation" to "well, America is influenced by the laws of Christianity" and we begin the discussion about where morals/ethics come from.#

Okay, okay, okay! As I previously stated, based on the founding tenets perhaps the correct definition is to state that America is a free nation whose Constitution is based upon Judeo/Christian principles. There, that should settle it once and for all. lol

Now, the way things are going, let's all enjoy the freedoms afforded each one of us while we still have those freedoms to enjoy.

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

I will admit that I have not read the founding documents of other nations; maybe I should. I don't see how that applies to a conservation about OUR founding documents, however.#

Theocracy: "government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided" (Webster's). I'm taking the definition literally. If the founding fathers wanted to state that we were a Christian nation (or one founded on Christian principles) they would have said "We the people of the United States in a firm belief of the being and perfection of the one living and true God, the creator and supreme Governor of the World, in His universal providence and the authority of His laws... do ordain, etc." rather than what we have now (what they originally and intentionally wrote). (The above quote is actually from#William Williams of the Constitutional Congress. He proposed this as the preamble...now why would he have done that if we were always a Christian nation?)

What I'm addressing here is that many claim that we are a Christian nation; you switched the wording to 'Christian-influenced' nation. I cannot argue that our laws are 'Christian-influenced' in so much as one could say ANY law stating that one shall not lie is 'Christian-influenced' because it happens to be in the Bible.

This is where the debate often turns from "America is, and has always been, a Christian nation" to "well, America is influenced by the laws of Christianity" and we begin the discussion about where morals/ethics come from.#

Okay, okay, okay! As I previously stated, based on the founding tenets perhaps the correct definition is to state that America is a free nation whose Constitution is based upon Judeo/Christian principles. There, that should settle it once and for all. lol

Now, the way things are going, let's all enjoy the freedoms afforded each one of us while we still have those freedoms to enjoy.

I said I'd give you that it's *influenced* (affected or altered by indirect or intangible means) but not based upon (made, formed, or served as a fundamental part) Christianity. "Thou shall not murder" is just a good rule to live by and it's not unique to Christianity or even religion in general.

But at least we can agree that a) America is not a Christian nation and b) we better enjoy it while it lasts. Our liberty is definitely in danger; just a matter of pinpointing said danger(s).

 

[Merlin99]

Okay, okay, okay! As I previously stated, based on the founding tenets perhaps the correct definition is to state that America is a free nation whose Constitution is based upon Judeo/Christian principles. There, that should settle it once and for all. lol

Now, the way things are going, let's all enjoy the freedoms afforded each one of us while we still have those freedoms to enjoy.

I'd worry more about politicians screwing these up than Muslims.

 

[Starman3000m]

I'd worry more about politicians screwing these up than Muslims.

Well, actually there's no doubt that the politicians have been doing that all along. That's why we're in the predicament we are in at this point in history. The Muslims are able to advance their ideology by taking advantage of the vulnerability of our Constitution as well as seizing opportunities to exploit the weaknesses and corruption of many of the politicians that have been elected.

So, yes, the corrupt politicians within both parties have had a hand at causing America to crumble away, administration by administration. However, voter apathy and low election turnouts by mainstream conservatives has also had a hand in letting things slide by as they have. That's why the Tea Party got started but it may be too late.

 

[Sonsie]

I have a real problem with Islam in general. Being retired military and having held sensitive jobs requiring serious security clearance I also see the need to protect our intelligence, plans, and personnel. Any troops that are muslim should be scrutinized very closely at all times, not just when the initial clearances are done. That being said, one of the best troops I ever had was a black muslim by the name of Dawud. Smart, dedicated, and very motivated.

Instead of chucking out muslims in general make it much easier to get rid of the lazy, stupid, problematic, and worthless. The US military shouldn't be a jobs program for the otherwise unemployable, single parents that can't get their act together, or hipsters with an attitude.

 

[Starman3000m]

I have a real problem with Islam in general. Being retired military and having held sensitive jobs requiring serious security clearance I also see the need to protect our intelligence, plans, and personnel. Any troops that are muslim should be scrutinized very closely at all times, not just when the initial clearances are done. That being said, one of the best troops I ever had was a black muslim by the name of Dawud. Smart, dedicated, and very motivated.

Instead of chucking out muslims in general make it much easier to get rid of the lazy, stupid, problematic, and worthless. The US military shouldn't be a jobs program for the otherwise unemployable, single parents that can't get their act together, or hipsters with an attitude.

Back to Islamic ideologies and varying sects within Islam: As mentioned previously, depends on how devout a Muslim is to their school of thought regarding their individual sect. I don't know if you are aware that Black Muslims are a completely different and separatist group from the Middle Eastern Muslims. While the Black Muslim faith believes their messiah/prophet, Elijah Muhammad, already made his appearance and set their path on the road to becoming the superior group, the Middle Eastern Muslims view Black Muslims as heretics.

That said, I also know and have met many Muslims who are "smart, dedicated and very motivated". But, you know what? That is pretty much the same description that was attributed to the 9/11 hijackers who premeditated their plans to commandeer passenger jets and fly them into the twin towers of the World Trade Center.

Ideology, ideology, ideology. That's what motivates most individuals to believe in a concept and act upon that concept.

The point is that Islam (regardless of whichever sect) and Western-style forms of Democracy are not compatible at all. In the final analysis and resulting end, the one who is the smartest, most dedicated, motivated and strengthened by their ideology wins.
(Just an observation by Starman's "art of war")

 

[Starman3000m]

Added Note for Sonsie:

Just an FYI
(article from New York Times - Internet archives)

Elijah Muhammad did not create the Nation of Islam but he built it on a number of principles. Among them: Islam is the true religion, "knowledge of self" is vital, "doing for self" is necessary, the black man is supreme and the white man is "the devil."

These principles caught the imagination of thousands of mostly young, male and female, lower-class black American former Christians who became followers of Mr. Muhammad. And recently, black professionals--physicians, police officers and the college-educated, for example--have joined the movement. Estimates of membership range from 25,000 to a high of 250,000 claimed by the movement.

Mr. Muhammad was considered by Black Muslims as the "Last Messenger of Allah."

Elijah Muhammad Dead; Black Muslim Leader, 77

 

[ItalianScallion]

Can't. That's why I have stated previously that this is where our Constitution is vulnerable, thus, if such change were to be made you would lose all of your present U.S. Constitutional your rights as well, unless you converted to Islam.

My argument is that I would not like to see that happen for my and my family's sake or anyone else's - even American-Muslims who have been westernized, tasted the freedoms of this society but are prevented from changing their religion by decree of Sharia Law.

Good job defending this topic Starman

As some of us know, Islam WILL be the end time (one world) religion. It's not a matter of how they will take over, but when. All WE can do is delay their takeover as long a possible. I've often thought about how it will happen and, now, it seems very clear to me.

After a concerted attempt to remove the true God from all aspects of American life, people will lack the required knowledge of God and, therefore, Islam will be accepted as ok to those people. Ignorant politicians (like Hillary) will have "bleeding hearts" for the poor muslims and allow them to infiltrate the new American government and other vital aspects of society. Once there, (like the Trojan horse), they can operate at will.

We need to take a stand against sharia like Australia did folks! If we don't stand for something we'll fall for anything. Oh yeah; they already have... :shrug:

 

[Starman3000m]

Good job defending this topic Starman

As some of us know, Islam WILL be the end time (one world) religion. It's not a matter of how they will take over, but when. All WE can do is delay their takeover as long a possible. I've often thought about how it will happen and, now, it seems very clear to me.

After a concerted attempt to remove the true God from all aspects of American life, people will lack the required knowledge of God and, therefore, Islam will be accepted as ok to those people. Ignorant politicians (like Hillary) will have "bleeding hearts" for the poor muslims and allow them to infiltrate the new American government and other vital aspects of society. Once there, (like the Trojan horse), they can operate at will.

We need to take a stand against sharia like Australia did folks! If we don't stand for something we'll fall for anything. Oh yeah; they already have... :shrug:

Thank you my friend!

Yes, Islam is bulldozing its way into American politics at a rapid pace in an effort to advance its agenda. Muslim leaders, apologists and foreign governments are actively attempting to "contain" the American society from exercising free speech that exposes and questions Islamic goals and ideologies. It appears that our own State Department is one of the biggest supporters of helping Islam gain a foothold in America. (New Thread forthcoming)

 

[Starman3000m]

Muslim "Infiltration" Within U.S. Military

Another situation where a devout Muslim military soldier kills American soldiers in a highly secured U.S./Afghan coalition base. Will this one also be called "workplace violence" instead of treason?

(Article excerpt)

Koran Burning: Can U.S. and Afghan Troops Work Together?

As the anger over the Koran-burning controversy continued to convulse Afghanistan, another violent incident disrupted how the Kabul government interacts with its Western allies. On Saturday afternoon, a member of the Afghan Interior Ministry opened fire on two U.S. advisers -- a lieut. colonel and a major -- at the ministry's command-and-control center in the capital. The Americans were shot in the back of their heads as they sat at their desks, news reports said. "A countrywide manhunt is under way for the fugitive," Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqi told TIME. Since the news broke, speculation has raged over whether the killer was an insurgent infiltrator or simply motivated by the Koran burnings at the Bagram airfield earlier this week. Sediqi denied the idea of infiltration, saying it is "clear that insurgent groups are not able to have such connections as this. The ministry is very secure, and we have not had any such incidents in the past. It cannot be suggested that he has links with some groups. But we will have to investigate."

Read complete article at -
Koran Burning: Can U.S. and Afghan Troops Work Together? - Yahoo! News

U.S. and coalition troops are no longer safe within their own compounds and, tragically, more of these situations are going to occur. Devout Muslim soldiers working alongside Americans will always feel compelled by obligation of jihad to side with Islam before they will continue to aid the "Infidels".

It's time to quit being politically correct and tell the truth: The U.S. Military has been infiltrated and security on all bases has been breached by those who stand ready to be martyrd for their Islamic cause.

 

[Starman3000m]

Why Muslims Should Be Discharged From Our Military

Previous Posting

Another situation where a devout Muslim military soldier kills American soldiers in a highly secured U.S./Afghan coalition base. Will this one also be called "workplace violence" instead of treason?

(Article excerpt)

U.S. and coalition troops are no longer safe within their own compounds and, tragically, more of these situations are going to occur. Devout Muslim soldiers working alongside Americans will always feel compelled by obligation of jihad to side with Islam before they will continue to aid the "Infidels".

It's time to quit being politically correct and tell the truth: The U.S. Military has been infiltrated and security on all bases has been breached by those who stand ready to be martyrd for their Islamic cause.

UPDATE:

Taliban leader claims insider attacks, 'most effective stratagem,' will increase
Associated Press – Wednesday, October, 24, 2012

(excerpt)

KABUL - Taliban insurgents will increase the number of insider attacks against coalition and Afghan forces, which have resulted in the deaths of at least 52 foreign troops so far this year, the movement's reclusive leader said Wednesday.
In an emailed statement congratulating Muslims as they prepare to celebrate the Eid al-Adha holiday, Mullah Mohammad Omar urged "every brave Afghan in the ranks of the foreign forces and their Afghan hirelings ... to strike them."

"Jihadist activities inside the circle of the state militias are the most effective stratagem. Its dimension will see further expansion, organization and efficiency," he said. "Increase your efforts to expand the area of infiltration in the ranks of the enemy."

Taliban leader claims insider attacks, 'most effective stratagem,' will increase - Yahoo! News