Pope John Paul II one step closer...

[wxtornado]

Theists gone wild....

 

[thatguy]

You do the very same things but you don't see that, do you? Of course not. Here are 2 things you can't see either:

1) Everyone chooses one of two eternal destinations.
2) Although (you're right) I don't know yours, you DO leave little doubt as to what it might be...

NOW; go ahead and use the Bible to dis-prove what I said about "thatguys assention"....No wait; nevermind. You don't believe the Bible so why would you use it to disprove me? What will you use??? :shrug:

why would i need to try to prove something that you just said you were wrong about?

again, your 'vision' isnt supported by the book and your proclamations are certainly not biblical.

 

[Radiant1]

Theists gone wild....

It's amusing but yet makes me want to vomit at the same time.

 

[PsyOps]

Theists gone wild....

Tell me about it. People that are passionate about what they believe. Out of control I tell ya!

 

[Toxick]

Theists gone wild....

There's absolutely nothing theological about my disagreement with IS.


I figured that would be patently obvious to even the most casual observer.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Folks, I might sound mean of hateful to you but this is NOT my intent, so don't think it. My intent is caring and educating you because of the dangers involved in your practices. Most Catholics make the sign of the cross with their hands but I really have no problem with that, even though no one in the Bible ever did it. Since it's not harmful nor a salvation issue, I see no need to speak against it. I cannot say the same for the issues we've spoken about on here though.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA! Whoa! Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Stop right there. Are you seriously going to go off on a 3 paragraph diatribe which basically amounts to "It sounds like X, it smells like X, it looks like X ... therefore it IS X. Period, end of discussion." And then you're going to have the nerve ... The gall... the sheer AUDACITY to say, "It looks like I'm doing X, but I'm really not". Really? REALLY?
Get the #### out of my face with that bull####.

First off, nice dodge. I like how you tried to turn everything around on me by pointing out what you see as my faults - without even taking a single microsecond to consider what I actually said and without acknowledging so much as a single word of my post.

Although you admitted below that your "diatribe" was a bit "dramatic", how was I supposed to understand all those "variables" (XYZ,ABC)??
I quoted my own post above that caused you to kirk out. While I didn't expect the infidels here to accept it, I fully expected you to because of your admission that you are a believer.

Look how quick you are to "educate and enlighten" people with your world view (because, as you claim, you love them) and then you actually expect them to see the light and change their behavior and beliefs? Yet you won't spare so much as a half-second to offer me the very thing that you expect from others. That's awesome. And then you catch a huge 'tude because I pointed out this audaciousness.

I don't expect anyone to come to Christ from what is said here. If they do, great! If they don't, at least they were made accountable for hearing the truth. That's my job. I didn't think that I had to offer you: "the very thing that I offer others" because you've claimed to be a Christian in other posts.

And where the hell do you get off judging me for being social? I behave exactly the same in the religious forums as I do in the Politics forum, and the News forum and any other forum. If you don't like it, ignore me, but don't presume to tell me that I need to "pick a side". This is not a war, whatever you seem to think. I don't need to pick a side, because there are no sides.

"Judging you"? "Social"? Nice generalization dude!

Oh this is only a religious forum? Are you that theologically behind? The Bible claims that this is a war! A spiritual war and you're either on God' side or against Him. From a few of your posts, I found it hard to see which side you were on, OK? Now, was that a criticism or an attempt to help you stay focused on whose side you're really on?

You spoke out against me telling Bavarian that (biblically) he was wrong in some of his beliefs/practices when I am commanded to by God Himself! What am I to think when other so called "believers" call me arrogant or judgmental for pointing out these things? I doesn't matter when unbelievers do it, but when so called believers do it...

This is why TwinOaks and numerous others have issues with absolute truth. Most people are taking this liberal or universal (feel good) attitude towards things that should not be debated. God said it, I believe it and that settles it! There's no room for argument. That's how paganism has creeped into the world. If you're on His side, make it clear to all reading here.

On a re-read there was a lot more drama in my post than I intended. I'll admit that - but I was trying to convey my sense of surprise at the sheer unadulterated chutzpah that I saw in your post. And my further shock that you seemed to be oblivious of it, despite how blatant it was.

Good! Then I'm not completely out there...

I was not debating scripture with you, and not once did I say that you were wrong "biblically". I was pointing out the hypocrisy that I see. A Catholic will flat-out tell you, "I don't worship Mary", and then you turn right around and say, "It looks like you do, therefore you DO"...... And then you have the nerve to say, "It looks like I'm being mean, but I'm really not"...And you honestly expect people to take that seriously?

You were speaking out against what I was saying. YOU were interfering with Biblical correction. YOU are the one who can't see the blindness of Catholicism. You need to read all the other posts that they wrote. Read where Starman posted ALL those "feast days/holydays" and then think about them saying they don't worship Mary.

The Pharisees told Jesus they weren't blind when He said they really were (John 9:40, 41). Did Jesus just say: Ok, I guess you aren't? NO! He proved to them that they are blind, no matter what they thought. This is why I said they were blind. They do it and yet say they don't. Can't YOU see this Toxick??

 

[ItalianScallion]

why would i need to try to prove something that you just said you were wrong about?
again, your 'vision' isnt supported by the book and your proclamations are certainly not biblical.

I didn't say I was wrong. By your own admission, your choice of eternal destination is clear to me. I just can't make a definite FINAL decision on you because you might change your mind someday(hopefully). What I said was what will definitely be waiting for you IF you don't change your mind. That, I am NOT wrong about.

Again, I'm waiting for you to prove my "vision" or teachings wrong. You still haven't done that, so come on and man up here. Don't sit there and make little peanut gallery comments. I'm not wrong because you say so. Give me some absolute truth and prove me wrong...

It's amusing but yet makes me want to vomit at the same time.

I don't hear you defending the truth on here.

 

[Toxick]

I quoted my own post above that caused you to kirk out. While I didn't expect the infidels here to accept it, I fully expected you to because of your admission that you are a believer.

I will most certainly call out believers when they do something that bugs me or I disagree with... same as I will anyone else. The same way I'm called out by literalists and atheists when I say something they disagree with. Which is often. It wasn't very long ago that I was as good as called an evil human being because I'm not a literalist.

I saw what I perceived to be blatant hypocrisy on your part and I called you on it. Why would you get a free pass because we're theologically aligned?

"Judging you"? "Social"? Nice generalization dude!

Are you denying this? I can go back and get the quote for you again if you'd like.

Oh this is only a religious forum? Are you that theologically behind? The Bible claims that this is a war!

Define "this". What is a war?

I'm here to have some fun, have some discussions and debates. That's about it. I'm not a warrior, and even if I were, I certainly wouldn't choose this venue as my combat zone.

A spiritual war and you're either on God' side or against Him. From a few of your posts, I found it hard to see which side you were on, OK? Now, was that a criticism or an attempt to help you stay focused on whose side you're really on?

I don't see it is a criticism nor an attempt to help. It's simply an observation on your part (a valid one, I'll grant you). IMO the answer is between myself and God and it does not concern you in the least, and I do not have the slightest inclination to answer to you or anyone here about it.

But criticism or observation - whatever it is - it's a far cry from telling me "You need to pick a side". I most certainly get a huge attitude when someone tells me I need to do something. Especially people who don't know me from shinola, and who've already put my ass up on my back.

You spoke out against me telling Bavarian that (biblically) he was wrong in some of his beliefs/practices when I am commanded to by God Himself!

What I spoke out against is when you directly contradict someone who makes a positive assertion about their own beliefs.

If someone tells you, "I don't do X", and then you say "Well, it sure looks like you do, so I'm telling you that you do do X." That irritates me.

But what completely blows my mind... what really bakes my noodle is when you - in the very next breath - say something like, "I know it looks like I'm being mean... but I'm really not."

WTF? Do you seriously not see that using the very logic you yourself used in your previous breath you ARE being mean. It looks like you're being mean, therefore you are.

And do you seriously not see that this is not a theological disagreement?

What am I to think when other so called "believers" call me arrogant or judgmental for pointing out these things?

I can only say what I would think... And if it were me, I'd rethink my approach. If enough people tell me that I'm acting like a jackwagon, I'd turn my attention to the mirror instead of the magnifying glass.

YOU are the one who can't see the blindness of Catholicism.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You don't know jack diddly squat about what I can or cannot see. I have myriad issues with Catholicism as a religion, and the Catholic Church as an institution.

Our main difference is that I am perfectly willing to take someone at face value when they tell me that they specifically do not worship various saints and/or Mary. I would NEVER presume to say, "Yes you do... you kneel before their statue and pray to them, therefore you worship them".

If they say they don't - they DON'T, and that's the end of the discussion.

Also, I reject the belief that "prayer" and "worship" are interchangeable terms.



The rest of your post seems like you want to draw me into a theological discussion, and I really am not into that today. My beef was not with scripture or your beliefs, and getting into a discussion about them lies well outside the scope of where I'm willing to go today.

 

[Toxick]

The Pharisees told Jesus they weren't blind when He said they really were (John 9:40, 41). Did Jesus just say: Ok, I guess you aren't? NO! He proved to them that they are blind, no matter what they thought. This is why I said they were blind. They do it and yet say they don't. Can't YOU see this Toxick??

I will address this though.



There's a huge difference between Jesus and myself - the least of which is that I do not possess the insight into people's minds that Jesus has.

All I have is what someone tells me. And like I said before, if they tell me they don't - then as far as I'm concerned, they don't - and that's the end of it. They will face judgment when it's their time, and I have my own demons to worry about.


I will offer you another relevant quote from Christ his ownself: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I am well aware that I don't just have a beam in my eye, but I have an entire warehouse of lumber in there. When I clear out my stock, I'll start worrying about others.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I saw what I perceived to be blatant hypocrisy on your part and I called you on it. Why would you get a free pass because we're theologically aligned?

It was the farthest thing from hypocrisy. We are told, many times by Paul, to be keenly aware of false teachings that might look good on the outside but are dangerous on the inside, and expose them (Ephesians 5:11).

I know the teachings of Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, etc., because they make it abundantly clear, but the devil has cleverly disguised a lot of paganism in Catholicism and they need to be made aware of it. I've been there, so I'm very qualified to talk about/against it. That's why I do it. Everyone I've heard of who came out of Catholicism tells the very same story. I've never said all Catholics are Hell bound because it's not true. I do know that many are, but THINK they aren't. Those are my heart's concern.

Define "this". What is a war?
I'm here to have some fun, have some discussions and debates. That's about it. I'm not a warrior, and even if I were, I certainly wouldn't choose this venue as my combat zone.

"Not a warrior"? You came at me pretty hard there Sparticus...

By "this" I mean whatever is said against God's truth in this religion forum. We cannot stand by and just ignore some of the dangerous statements that are made here when we know the truth and are accountable for what we do with it (Ezekiel 3).

What is a war? 2 Corinthians 10:3-6, Galatians 1, Ephesians 6:12.

What I spoke out against is when you directly contradict someone who makes a positive assertion about their own beliefs. If someone tells you, "I don't do X", and then you say "Well, it sure looks like you do, so I'm telling you that you do do X." That irritates me. WTF? Do you seriously not see that using the very logic you yourself used in your previous breath you ARE being mean. It looks like you're being mean, therefore you are.

Toxick, many people cannot see (spiritually) and there's nothing more loving and caring than someone who can see, helping them to see. (Isaiah 52:7) You take someone at their word but I often don't. Again; What did Jesus do in John 9?

And do you seriously not see that this is not a theological disagreement?

I do now, but I didn't when you wrote in those Algebraic variables...

I can only say what I would think... And if it were me, I'd rethink my approach. If enough people tell me that I'm acting like a jackwagon, I'd turn my attention to the mirror instead of the magnifying glass. You don't know jack diddly squat about what I can or cannot see. I have myriad issues with Catholicism as a religion, and the Catholic Church as an institution. Our main difference is that I am perfectly willing to take someone at face value when they tell me that they specifically do not worship various saints and/or Mary. I would NEVER presume to say, "Yes you do... you kneel before their statue and pray to them, therefore you worship them". If they say they don't - they DON'T, and that's the end of the discussion.

"Rethink my approach"? After telling me not to tell you what to do, you're telling me to change my approach? Ok look; I'm not being difficult here. You haven't been where I've been. After years of evangelism, my specialty became contending for the truth (Apologetics).

I have a few different approaches in how I do it. You just happen to focus on my "apologist" approach. There is an evangelical side which you've seemed to miss. I guess that "PM" after you got out of the hospital showed that I'm still a "jackwagon" eh? Nice!

I just have a big problem when someone says I shouldn't care that someone is "on the highway to Hell". Just let them continue down that road as long as they say they aren't? I can't look away; sorry, not in me...I know the finality of Hell.

 

[libby]

I've never said all Catholics are Hell bound because it's not true. I do know that many are, but THINK they aren't. Those are my heart's concern.

I would absolutely agree with this statement. However, I would say the exact same thing for those who believe that "accepting Christ as your personal Savior" is all there is to it as well and it has nothing to do with the doctrines of the RCC, or any statements written in the Bible.
That is why I have come to believe that every single person must take the time to study Scripture and, yes, history, as well as using logic and the nature of God to come to their conclusions.
I also believe that God in Infinite in His Mercy, and He is going to consider perfectly every factor that brought every individual to his particular understanding of God. It is not as cut and dried as you and SM make it out to be.

 

[Toxick]

This conversaton is becoming circlar, so I'm just going to drop it before we start saying, "No I didn't" "Yes you did". I've said what I wanted to say on the subject. Shockingly enough, nothing got through.

There's only one small point I want to clarify:

"Rethink my approach"? After telling me not to tell you what to do, you're telling me to change my approach?

I am most certainly not telling you what to do.

If you'll notice, I explicitly pointed out that I was speaking only for myself and what I would do. I physically pointed this out before I said anything.



And even if I was telling you what to do, you specifically asked "What am I supposed to think".... did you not?

Ok look; I'm not being difficult here.

Should I say it?

I'm going to say it.



It sure looks like you're being difficult. Therefore you are being difficult, regardless of you saying otherwise.

There is an evangelical side which you've seemed to miss. I guess that "PM" after you got out of the hospital showed that I'm still a "jackwagon" eh? Nice!

I didn't call you a jackwagon. Read the context again.

I can see why you'd infer that, but that's not where I was going.