Pope - Marxist / Socialist Actions

[SamSpade]

But being devoted to a particular religion to the point that you'll overlook malfeasance and make excuses for poor behavior is a cult, not a true religion.

KIND of had experience with both - and I don't agree. I know what a cult is, and I know what religion is.
And I can say that in a *cult* - you had BETTER agree with the leaders and all their teachings. Depending on which one - you'll be shunned, "marked", thrown out or ostracized.
They'll coerce you to fall in line - and I was there. And I complied. Sort of.
In a religion - not so much. Because your devotion to your God supersedes your connection with religious leaders.
My current church takes a fairly strong stance over things like gambling and homosexuality - and yet they have gay people, and members play the lottery and go to casinos.
No one polices you or even chastises you.

DJ, even in THIS *country* - if a President mouths off and says dumb things and is rude, ignorant or massively ill-informed - he doesn't lose his job over it, he doesn't get removed from office (except possibly the next election) and the country doesn't split in half over it. You lose your job over being corrupt or breaking the law. Trump could pinch the ass of every intern in Washington, and he wouldn't get removed from office no matter how the Dems would go crazy.

The Catholics haven't really had much of a political Pope in a while, and the last one who did - well, he took a stance against Communism and he didn't despise the United States.
He wasn't terribly popular in Russia.

If the current Pope misuses funds, acts in a highly immoral fashion and becomes a religious tyrant - well - he might go the way of John Paul I.

 

[Hijinx]

Many Catholics ar doing as you say. Voting with their feet. Many are leaving for other Church's.
Why don't others leave? Because they believe in the Church. The practitioners (Priests, Bishops, Cardinals, and the Pope) may be wrong, but the Church is right.
As Sam says , over the years the Catholic Church has been led astray a lot by it's practitioners.
But the basic Faith has always remained.

I don't like this Pope and I don't like Cardinal Wuerl, but they won't drive me from my Church.

 

[SamSpade]

Then mainstream Catholics should renounce the Pope and start their own church.

That's actually part of what makes Christianity such a JOKE today - they split up over minutiae that you WOULD NOT BELIEVE people will fight over.
In one of my old churches - churches broke up over whether they used ONE cup at communion or many. Having the Lord's Supper every week or once a month.
Having an at large organization monitoring missions - or keeping it local. Meeting on Sunday - or on Saturday.
One of them - on whether or not the building could have a *kitchen* in it.
On and on and on. Split up over really stupid stuff.
The FIRST big split came over a thousand years ago - about what day to have EASTER on.

Somewhere along the lines, most church realized this was STUPID. There's room for disagreement.
You can be Democrat or Republican. You can be a Dallas fan or not hate Tom Brady.

If the Pope spouts off about global warming and single payer and immigration - let him. It's just his opinion.
If he says women can or can't be priests, that's his call.

I don't have a problem with it.

 

[vraiblonde]

That's actually part of what makes Christianity such a JOKE today - they split up over minutiae that you WOULD NOT BELIEVE people will fight over.
In one of my old churches - churches broke up over whether they used ONE cup at communion or many. Having the Lord's Supper every week or once a month.
Having an at large organization monitoring missions - or keeping it local. Meeting on Sunday - or on Saturday.
One of them - on whether or not the building could have a *kitchen* in it.
On and on and on. Split up over really stupid stuff.
The FIRST big split came over a thousand years ago - about what day to have EASTER on.

Somewhere along the lines, most church realized this was STUPID. There's room for disagreement.
You can be Democrat or Republican. You can be a Dallas fan or not hate Tom Brady.

If the Pope spouts off about global warming and single payer and immigration - let him. It's just his opinion.
If he says women can or can't be priests, that's his call.

I don't have a problem with it.

I'm trying to think of how to say this nicely...

When it comes to something that is belief-based, beliefs are what is important to the practitioners. Therefore, if they do not believe the doctrine or practices held by a particular sect, they are correct to leave and join or form a group that they DO believe in. It's not for the collective to decide what is and isn't important to each individual member.

You say the Pope can have his own opinions, but my understanding of Catholicism is that the Pope is THE guy. He is second only to God and his word is law. To me, that's like saying, oh, it's only God's opinion - Christians can still do whatever they want. The Pope by his very job description sets the agenda for practitioners of Catholicism, and if he says that global warming will kill us all unless we give money to various groups, or he decrees single payer health insurance, Catholics must follow along.

Catholics, is that correct? You have to do what the Pope says because he speaks for God?

 

[SamSpade]

The Pope by his very job description sets the agenda for practitioners of Catholicism, and if he says that global warming will kill us all unless we give money to various groups, or he decrees single payer health insurance, Catholics must follow along.

Absolutely not

Catholics, is that correct? You have to do what the Pope says because he speaks for God?

Absolutely not. The Pope is only this way when he specifically speaks "ex cathedra" - and he rarely does that.
It only refers to matters of faith or morals. It's when he defines a specific doctrine for the church.
To my knowledge it's been about 60 or 70 years since a pope made such a declaration.

If he advances his own opinion - it can be rejected. If he says global warming will kill us all, the entire Church is free to ignore it.

 

[black dog]

You must have me on ignore.

Cops-bust-dopey-gay-vatican-orgy

Rumor is Vrai has you on ignore..

 

[b23hqb]

Quite a lot - about a fourth of the Senate and about a third of the House. And you know a lot of them.
Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, Steve Scalise - and Nancy Pelosi and Charlie Rangel.

I think that much there proves my point - CATHOLICS usually don't mix their religion with politics.
At least not in the United States.

If you can't intertwine those two stances, then you don't stand for either, or don't believe in either, but definitely one of the two, right? No matter, you are just one that stands for which way the wind blows.

 

[vraiblonde]

Absolutely not



Absolutely not. The Pope is only this way when he specifically speaks "ex cathedra" - and he rarely does that.
It only refers to matters of faith or morals. It's when he defines a specific doctrine for the church.
To my knowledge it's been about 60 or 70 years since a pope made such a declaration.

If he advances his own opinion - it can be rejected. If he says global warming will kill us all, the entire Church is free to ignore it.

 

[SamSpade]

If you can't intertwine those two stances, then you don't stand for either, or don't believe in either, but definitely one of the two, right? No matter, you are just one that stands for which way the wind blows.

But only if you think those two worlds must intersect. When I was in that cult, my religion played a part in which way I parted my hair or what time I ate breakfast.
It was part of everything. I know a lot of people for whom politics is only marginally important - because they don't think it REALLY affects their lives much.
And I'm not sure they're wrong.

I remember listening to a man giving a presentation INSISTING that my religion MUST lead me to assist him in stopping pornography. He likened it to a knife-wielding man coming after my kids - and if my beliefs meant I would just stand by idly. To HIM - politics MUST go hand in hand with religion and NOT getting on board made me a hypocrite. I disagreed - if your religion is opposed to stuff like pornography, you address it with people, not laws. Laws stop people from doing things, but my religion changes their mind about it - I am not about winning the ISSUE battle but about the battle for a soul.

So - I totally GET why people divorce their religion from their politics. Which is why as a whole, Catholics do not historically "vote their religion".

 

[GURPS]

Pope Francis fires outspoken Texas Bishop Joseph Strickland who called Joe Biden a 'fake Catholic' and accused the Vatican of 'blasphemies'​

• Pope on Saturday forcibly removed the bishop of Tyler, Texas, Joseph Strickland
• Strickland fiercely criticized the pontiff in brazen attacks on social media
• He warned of 'blasphemies emanating from Rome' and called Biden's faith 'fake'

 

[phreddyp]

Pope Francis fires outspoken Texas Bishop Joseph Strickland who called Joe Biden a 'fake Catholic' and accused the Vatican of 'blasphemies'​

• Pope on Saturday forcibly removed the bishop of Tyler, Texas, Joseph Strickland
• Strickland fiercely criticized the pontiff in brazen attacks on social media
• He warned of 'blasphemies emanating from Rome' and called Biden's faith 'fake'

Joe Curran II

 

[GURPS]

Vatican Says Transsexuals and ‘Homoaffective’ Persons Can Be Baptized, Serve as Godparents​

Transsexual persons, even if they have undergone hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery, may receive the Sacrament of Baptism “if there are no situations in which there is a risk of generating public scandal or confusion among the faithful,” stated the text, signed by Argentinean Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernández.

The document was published this week in response to six questions (dubia) submitted to the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) by Bishop José Negri of Santo Amaro, Brazil.

The responses “re-propose, in substance, the fundamental contents of what has already been affirmed in the past by the Dicastery concerning these matters,” the document asserts.

Shortly afterward, the former prefect of the very same DDF, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, released a text criticizing the document for its confusing language as well as for employing “transhumanistic terminology” antithetical to a Catholic understanding of the human person.

“In truth, there are no transsexual or homophilous (homoaffective or homosexual) people either in the order of creature nature or in the grace of the New Covenant in Christ,” Cardinal Müller declared, since only “two sexes” exist.

“It is confusing and harmful that the Magisterium employs the terminology of a nihilistic and atheistic anthropology and thus seems to give its false content the status of legitimate theological opinion in the Church,” he said.

Transhumanism in all its variants is a “diabolical fiction” and a sin against the personal dignity of human beings, the cardinal stated, even when it presents itself in the form of transgenderism using terminology such as “self-determined gender reassignment.”

 

[stgislander]

It appears that religion is also downstream from culture.

 

[Kyle]

It appears that religion is also downstream from culture.

The Pope wants more Benjamins.

 

[GURPS]

Pope Francis Invites 44 Transgenders Who Work as “Prostitutes” to Vatican for Lunch (VIDEO)​

The commie Pope invited a busload of 44 transgenders to the Vatican for lunch.

“On Sunday, the women — many of whom are Latin American migrants and work as prostitutes — joined over 1,000 other poor and homeless people in the Vatican auditorium as Francis’ guests for lunch to mark the Catholic Church’s World Day of the Poor,” AP reported.

 

[stgislander]

Pope Francis Invites 44 Transgenders Who Work as “Prostitutes” to Vatican for Lunch (VIDEO)​

The commie Pope invited a busload of 44 transgenders to the Vatican for lunch.

“On Sunday, the women — many of whom are Latin American migrants and work as prostitutes — joined over 1,000 other poor and homeless people in the Vatican auditorium as Francis’ guests for lunch to mark the Catholic Church’s World Day of the Poor,” AP reported.

I seem to remember reading somewhere Jesus eating with prostitutes and tax collectors.