Presbyterians Think Of Changing 'Father, Son, Holy Spirit'

[residentofcre]

I basically agree with you, Ms. Tice, but I have some points to add to your position. Christ is indeed the only way towards salvation, in my opinion. The Catholic Church, of which I am a member, states that salvation is necessary through Christ and that knowledge of Christ comes through the Church, which Christ established on earth. Now this interpretation of the Church can mean solely the Roman Catholic Church, or the Body of Christ in the world (i.e., the entire Christian community). I believe that this use of the term "Church" refers to the entire Body of Christ (which is the prevailing opinion of most theologians in the Catholic Church, including Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI).

Furthermore, I believe, as does the Catholic Church, that people can be connected to the Body of Christ unknowingly. In other words, one does not have to profess to be a Christian to receive salvation. They are "unknowingly" connected to the Body of Christ in the world today because of their lifestyles that emphasize compassion and love, especially for the disadvantaged. Such a lifestyle is what Christ taught us to lead in his preaching and endorsing such a lifestyle is the true test of salvation.

So, yes, we do receive salvation through Jesus Christ, who taught us how to lead compassionate lives. It is through this connection to such teachings that humans receive salvation, in my view.

We differ somewhat on that... and being that my family lost a castle in Galway 13 or 14 generations ago over that very kind of questions... I am not ready to fight the Protestant Catholic debate... I'm not well versed enough in the Catholic church to know how to fight that fight....

Can't we just agree that Jesus is Salvation....

 

[Toxick]

It can be incredibly pointless and excessive, but what I am trying to say is that it doesn't pariticularly matter how one refers to the Trinity, just that one believes and leads their life as the Trinity as shown us.

And what I'm trying to say is that changing stuff that shouldn't be changed is a very slippery slope.

 

[Bustem' Down]

And what I'm trying to say is that changing stuff that shouldn't be changed is a very slippery slope.

I'm sure someone told Martin Luther that too. Seemed to work out for him.

 

[rraley]

We differ somewhat on that... and being that my family lost a castle in Galway 13 or 14 generations ago over that very kind of questions... I am not ready to fight the Protestant Catholic debate... I'm not well versed enough in the Catholic church to know how to fight that fight....

Can't we just agree that Jesus is Salvation....

Yes indeed we can say that Jesus Christ is salvation...live as He taught us and we are on our way.

That's interesting about your family history in Galway. My family was probably involved in the losing of your castle being the good Irish Catholic boy that I am.

 

[residentofcre]

So, yes, we do receive salvation through Jesus Christ, who taught us how to lead compassionate lives. It is through this connection to such teachings that humans receive salvation, in my view.

John 3:16 says that "For God so loved the World that He gave His only Son that whoever believes on Him will have life everlasting".... paraphrased

I just can't let it lay.... I think the reason we hear God calling us is because He loves us.... I think it's rude not to answer Him....

Jesus said that there will be people who will call out "Lord, Lord" but He won't recognize them.

It just makes sense to me that it takes so little effort to confess Jesus Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior... If you believe in Jesus as your Savior why wouldn't you tell the world?

Sorry....couldn't keep quiet about it... It bothers me when I hear people say that God will let us in Heaven even if we don't profess Jesus as our Personal Savior.... I just don't understand why we would expect Him to do that? He already gave His Only Son.

 

[residentofcre]

That's interesting about your family history in Galway. My family was probably involved in the losing of your castle being the good Irish Catholic boy that I am.

Yep... it's ok... happened a long time ago....

 

[rraley]

You are entitled to your opinion, Ms. Tice. I, for one, though, am not able to conclusively say that I know who makes it into Heaven and who does not. Based on my knowledge of God and His message, as displayed by Jesus Christ, I find it hard to believe that He would turn away a good person who helped the poor, cared for the sick, visited the imprisoned, and loved everyone regardless of what religion they endorsed. For some people, they never learn of Jesus...so does God send them away to Hell because they didn't accept Jesus as their personal savior? Or what about the Jewish people who have the same history as Christ Himself?

I believe the more important message of love from God is to take His example and that of Jesus and live it. If that means accepting Jesus as your personal savior (I believe that he was the savior of mankind), then so be it. Still, I fully accept the Church's teaching that indeed all those who are connected to the Body of Christ will spend an eternity in Paradise.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'm sure someone told Martin Luther that too. Seemed to work out for him.

Martin Luther objected to the Vatican changing things. He was against the "new" proclamations of the Pope.


Those that think of God as black or white are off base. The only description the Bible gives of the "One sitting on the throne" in heaven is in Revelation 4:2-4 where it is said of God that He "was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance." Literally, that would make God a deep orange-red (sardius) and red, yellow, or brown (jasper), so white and black are out.

Jesus referred to His Father; masculine. Adam was created in God's image; male. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit may not fit the "inclusive", politically correct nature of many, but to change it is error.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You are entitled to your opinion, Ms. Tice. I, for one, though, am not able to conclusively say that I know who makes it into Heaven and who does not. Based on my knowledge of God and His message, as displayed by Jesus Christ, I find it hard to believe that He would turn away a good person who helped the poor, cared for the sick, visited the imprisoned, and loved everyone regardless of what religion they endorsed. For some people, they never learn of Jesus...so does God send them away to Hell because they didn't accept Jesus as their personal savior? Or what about the Jewish people who have the same history as Christ Himself?

I believe the more important message of love from God is to take His example and that of Jesus and live it. If that means accepting Jesus as your personal savior (I believe that he was the savior of mankind), then so be it. Still, I fully accept the Church's teaching that indeed all those who are connected to the Body of Christ will spend an eternity in Paradise.

How can you justify your belief since the Bible says no man is good?

Romans 3:10-18

10as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
"THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

How can you justify your belief since the Bible says the consequences of sin is death?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Bible does not say lots of sin; just one sin is enough to separate a person from God. How can you justify your belief since the Bible says Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." in John 14:6 (emphasis mine)? That does not seem to leave a lot of wiggle room.

As for the Jews that do not accept Jesus, see Revelation 7:4-8; 144,000 are sealed, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Revelation 7 goes on to say:

Revelation 7:9-10

9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

10and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

Which certainly indicates that the way of salvation is through the Lamb, Jesus.

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion, but I think the Bible refutes your position.